[opieandy]

Great forum. I have a couple of questions on the Pioneer 640HS that hopefully someone can help with (I already read the user's manual online but didn't find the answers):


1. Is it possible to transfer footage from my MiniDV camcorder to the HDD or DVD? (since there is no "DV in" jack on the Pioneer 640)


2. Is it possible to simultaneously record two live TV programs?


Also, I am a fan of Vann's and have seen that others here like them. However, Amazon currently has it for $10 cheaper, and that's ordering "directly" from Amazon, rather than through Amazon marketplace, where the low cost seller is Expo Electronics (or some such) that has only 90% feedback. Is there any downside to ordering directly from Amazon rather than Vann's?


Thanks,


Chris

 

[Sean Nelson]

You should be able to do this by connecting the camcorder to one of the S-Video or composite line inputs, assuming your camcorder has an equivalent output.

 

[bobkart]

No simultaneous recording capability.

 

[opieandy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson /forum/post/0


You should be able to do this by connecting the camcorder to one of the S-Video or composite line inputs, assuming your camcorder has an equivalent output.

Thanks very much. My JVC camcorder just died after only three years (second time for JVC, guess I'll try something different this time; a HDD-based camcorder), so I'll make sure the new one has that capability.

 

[opieandy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bobkart /forum/post/0


No simultaneous recording capability.

Thanks, bobkart. Is there any DVR with that capability (other than Tivo or cable/satellite subscription-based services)?


Chris

 

[bobkart]

No DVD Recorders that I'm aware of.


DVRs maybe. I'm not as familiar with those.

 

[opieandy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson /forum/post/0


You should be able to do this by connecting the camcorder to one of the S-Video or composite line inputs, assuming your camcorder has an equivalent output.

Upon further research, I understand S-Video transfers video signals only. Please forgive my ignorance here, the various terms of the industry bewilder me. The Pioneer also appears to accept "composite" input. From research, "composite" appears to refer to the yellow RCA-style video cable, which is usually part of a red/white/yellow cable (the red and white being for Left and Right audio), is that right? I believe the red/white/yellow cable is sometimes called an "av cable", is that right? Can I get the audio AND video from a standard miniDV camcorder to the Pioneer 640 with such a "composite" cable (which I think is also called an "av" cable)?


Why would I then use an S-video cable? For superior video? Would I then have to use both the S-Video cable for superior video, plus the yellow portion of the "av cable" for audio?


Thanks,


Chris

 

[opieandy]

One more question comes to mind. If I can transfer miniDV footage from the camcorder to the Pioneer 640 via a composite line, why is it considered a disadvantage of the Pioneer 640 that it does not have "dv input?"


Thanks,


Chris

 

[nextoo]



Quote:
Originally Posted by opieandy /forum/post/0


One more question comes to mind. If I can transfer miniDV footage from the camcorder to the Pioneer 640 via a composite line, why is it considered a disadvantage of the Pioneer 640 that it does not have "dv input?"


Thanks,


Chris

Great question. I'm looking forward to the answer.

 

[Oldemanphil]



Quote:
Originally Posted by opieandy /forum/post/0


Upon further research, I understand S-Video transfers video signals only. Please forgive my ignorance here, the various terms of the industry bewilder me. The Pioneer also appears to accept "composite" input. From research, "composite" appears to refer to the yellow RCA-style video cable, which is usually part of a red/white/yellow cable (the red and white being for Left and Right audio), is that right? I believe the red/white/yellow cable is sometimes called an "av cable", is that right? Can I get the audio AND video from a standard miniDV camcorder to the Pioneer 640 with such a "composite" cable (which I think is also called an "av" cable)?


Why would I then use an S-video cable? For superior video? Would I then have to use both the S-Video cable for superior video, plus the yellow portion of the "av cable" for audio?


Thanks,


Chris

In my experience, the S-video cable gives superior quality compared to the common composite video or yellow cable. With either of these cables, you would still have to connect additional cables for the audio signal. Many camcorders come with a 1/8 inch stereo output audio jack that can be used for the audio portion of the recording. The audio cables are usually red and white or red and black.


The camcorder DV output has both video and audio combined, therefore requires only one cable.


I have found little quality difference between using S-video or DV as a source from camcorder to DVD recorder. HOWEVER, I can get better quality by processing the DV directly on the PC and going through a better encoding (read MUCH longer time) process. A hour DV file runs about 13Gb as a AVI file on the PC for example.


For speed and ease of use, the camcorder direct to DVD recorder method can't be beat.


Ymmv

 

[opieandy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldemanphil /forum/post/0


In my experience, the S-video cable gives superior quality compared to the common composite video or yellow cable. With either of these cables, you would still have to connect additional cables for the audio signal. Many camcorders come with a 1/8 inch stereo output audio jack that can be used for the audio portion of the recording. The audio cables are usually red and white or red and black.


The camcorder DV output has both video and audio combined, therefore requires only one cable.


I have found little quality difference between using S-video or DV as a source from camcorder to DVD recorder. HOWEVER, I can get better quality by processing the DV directly on the PC and going through a better encoding (read MUCH longer time) process. A hour DV file runs about 13Gb as a AVI file on the PC for example.


For speed and ease of use, the camcorder direct to DVD recorder method can't be beat.


Ymmv

Thanks very much. I thought there may be a quality difference. It is frustrating and challenging finding a miniDV camcorder with an S-Video jack. My three-year-old JVC GR-D30 camcorder has it, but none of JVC's 2006 miniDV models have it, apparently (though Cnet's site states the GRD-650 has it, a review of the actual user manual at JVC's site makes no reference to it). Maybe S-video is old technology, but I thought it was fairly new. And no matter what I buy, it will not be compatible with the long life battery and external battery charger I invested in. What a racket!


Is the advantage of the "DV in" jack that it requires only one cable? If so, that's a pretty minor advantage.


Thanks,


Chris

 

[opieandy]

This is really not fun anymore.

So far I've found exactly one miniDV camcorder (other than my own dead one) with an S-video jack, the Canon Elura 80, available from exactly one retailer that I'm not familiar with. So I'm starting to consider using the PC to make DVDs from my camcorder.


Two Questions:


1. If I get a DVD Recorder with a "DV in" port, is that compatible with the IEEE94 firewire connection that is listed as part of every camcorder I've looked at (which I think is labeled "DV" on my current camcorder)?


2. If I give up on the S-video route and decide to use the PC to make DVDs that will play on standard DVD players, is it fairly easy to do (without editing, just straight recording), and would I have to buy software (or is there freeware)?


I had done some research on the latter question a few days ago, but promptly forgot the answer when I decided to go the direct-to-DVD recorder route. That route just looks less and less promising with the Pioneer 640 and lack of S-video jacks on miniDV camcorders.


Thanks,


Chris

 

[Sean Nelson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by opieandy /forum/post/0


One more question comes to mind. If I can transfer miniDV footage from the camcorder to the Pioneer 640 via a composite line, why is it considered a disadvantage of the Pioneer 640 that it does not have "dv input?"

Generally speaking, since the DV connection is a lossless digital signal it will loose no quality at all as the data is transferred to the DVD recorder. But depending on the DVD recorder the signal may then get converted to analogue before being re-encoded to digital data on the DVD, so how big an advantage this is may be open to debate. Unfortuantely the details of what goes on inside DVD recorders in this regard are not generally made available to us mere consumers.


As noted above, S-Video is usually the next best bet, and composite is near the bottom of the list as far as quality goes. But quality is a very subjective thing, and how much difference YOU notice between the various connections is something nobody else can really answer for you.


If you're really going to buy an HDD-based camcorder you should be aware that the camcorder itself may already be recording the files in a DVD-compliant format. You may be able to download the files to your computer and then use an authoring program to burn a DVD with no further conversion of the video at all. Even if you want to edit the video there are editors available which can keep the original encoding except for the few frames around cuts or transitions. If you're interested in preserving as much quality as possible this might be the way to go (although a lot of folks would point out that the lossless compression used in MiniDV camcorders gives you a better quality original recording than the lossy MPEG compression used in HDD camcorders).

 

[Oldemanphil]



Quote:
Generally speaking, since the DV connection is a lossless digital signal it will loose no quality at all as the data is transferred to the DVD recorder. But depending on the DVD recorder the signal may then get converted to analogue before being re-encoded to digital data on the DVD, so how big an advantage this is may be open to debate. Unfortuantely the details of what goes on inside DVD recorders in this regard are not generally made available to us mere consumers..

MiniDV format is capable of amazing quality. The problem with converting it in a DVD recorder is that the DV to MPEG conversion must be done in real time as opposed as to how ever long it takes for quality on a PC. Not very long ago, computers weren't fast enough to do real time video conversion. Some would say that computers still aren't fast enough.


I have tried recording DV in on several different DVD recorders and the quality results were fairly similar, but none were as good in XP mode as doing it the long hard way on the PC. Close but not as good. Its not simple to do on the PC and I only do it for a few critical production projects.

Quote:
As noted above, S-Video is usually the next best bet, and composite is near the bottom of the list as far as quality goes. But quality is a very subjective thing, and how much difference YOU notice between the various connections is something nobody else can really answer for you

These are good points... I would certainly try composite output before buying a new camcorder. If you're filming hand held, using natural lighting with motion, it may not matter which camcorder output is used.


If I was looking at a new camcorder, I have not heard good things about any of the camcorders that go directly to DVD.


I would consider looking at the new HDD models for their extended recording time (MiniDV tape time limits are a negative for my particular needs). The HDD models might also transfer with better quality to DVD recorders. I doubt that the current models can achieve DV quality but the recordings would certaiinly be a lot easier to work with.


My $.02 worth...

 

[RichardT]

Can you borrow a camcorder with s-video and composite out and run a test recording from both sources? You'd then have your answer.


Only one video cable is required: s-video or composite (yellow). The audio is required with both.


In tests I've run with composite, s-video, and dv from a Sony VX2100 camcorder to a Panasonic EH55 dvd recorder, the difference between dv and s-video was barely distinguishable. Between dv and composite, and between s-video and composite, the difference was noticeable.


So my suggestion, try both and see whether the difference, if any, matters to you.

 

[Urlee]

opieandy,


I bought a Sony analog camcorder in 1997 which does not have the S option.


I just used the composite cables plugged into the front of the Pio640, input "L2" and it worked marvelously.


Urlee

 

[opieandy]

Thanks everybody. I'm not a real videophile, so maybe the quality difference wouldn't be that noticeable to me. Still, since the process is just as simple (another important criterion) regardless of which cables you use, I'd like to use the more quality S-video or firewire process if I can.


After researching the process needed to do the conversions on the PC, it seems that PC conversions take as much as 5-6 hours for a 2 hour tape due to how long it takes the PC to convert and burn the DVD. I can do the process in real-time with a direct connection to the DVD recorder and experience less frustration.


Chris

 

[Urlee]



Quote:
Originally Posted by opieandy /forum/post/0


I can do the process in real-time with a direct connection to the DVD recorder and experience less frustration.


Chris

Being I do not know all of what is on most of my VCR tapes, as I shot bits of everything, etc.

I take a day where I can watch as it records to my Pio 640 HDD with a note pad, I write down each of what is showing to edit afterwords, and if it is of a movie I don't care to save, I Pause the DVR, then FF the VCR 'til I come to more stuff I may want to keep.


Urlee