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Interesting...the Elite looks nice. And only 600!

Im curious how well the automatic picture adjustor works.
 

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looking for a replacement for the 51, looks like the 23fd is the way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm wondering how the 23FD will compare to the 09 about to be released?


It makes you wonder how long the 51 and 05 will be around?
 

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My bet is that these are cost-reduced revisions of the 51/05, with the few addons necessary to do BD-Live. Note that in the pics only the Elite 23FD has PQLS, so for core A/V features it seems the cheaper models don't match the 51/05.


But yeah, these are the 2009 replacements for the 51/05. Unless you want BD-Live badly though, in all likelihood there probably won't be much difference.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined /forum/post/15490200


My bet is that these are cost-reduced revisions of the 51/05, with the few addons necessary to do BD-Live. Note that in the pics only the Elite 23FD has PQLS, so for core A/V features it seems the cheaper models don't match the 51/05.


But yeah, these are the 2009 replacements for the 51/05. Unless you want BD-Live badly though, in all likelihood there probably won't be much difference.

significantly what the 23fd has is PQLS for HDaudio. the likes of the 05fd only can only do that for CD.


I wonder too if these players improve on the current range for speed. with each release pio seems to move forward significantly in that regard it seems.


I very much like the styling of the 23fd which is a lot more slim line and stylish than the current boxy 05fd/51. the 51 especialy looks real naf in my opinon !



pleased to see pio leading the charge. no point sitting around and letting the world pass you by
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau /forum/post/15490462


significantly what the 23fd has is PQLS for HDaudio. the likes of the 05fd only can only do that for CD.

For PCM5.1/7.1 that would be useful, though obviously PQLS for TrueHD/DTS-MA would be redundant.

Quote:
I wonder too if these players improve on the current range for speed. with each release pio seems to move forward significantly in that regard it seems.

If they include a different BDROM drive I could see that happening... Although you never know as the 09FD ($2200) is the same speed as the 05/51.


I have heard they are doing a significant performance boost in the FW upgrade for the 05/51 in Feb...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined /forum/post/15490531


For PCM5.1/7.1 that would be useful, though obviously PQLS for TrueHD/DTS-MA would be redundant.


If they include a different BDROM drive I could see that happening... Although you never know as the 09FD ($2200) is the same speed as the 05/51.


I have heard they are doing a significant performance boost in the FW upgrade for the 05/51 in Feb...

it says "stream" perfectly jitter free audio....and both truehd and DTS-HD MA do get a mention



"stream perfectly jitter-free surround sound audio including Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio"


if you think about it its been a fair old while since the 05/51 were announced.


last CES 2008, one year ago to be specific
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972724


BD technology has come a long way in the last year. I would be surpised a new breed of pios on the way



for the brand it would be a good thing.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau /forum/post/15490587


it says "stream" perfectly jitter free audio....and both truehd and DTS-HD MA do get a mention



"stream perfectly jitter-free surround sound audio including Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio"

Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA outputs are already jitter-free without PQLS on every brand player. So again, PCM output remains the only area PQLS is useful regardless of what the PR says.

Quote:
if you think about it its been a fair old while since the 05/51 were announced.


last CES 2008, one year ago to be specific
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972724


BD technology has come a long way in the last year. I would be surpised a new breed of pios on the way



for the brand it would be a good thing.

I really don't think they are going to be that different. Pioneer just got the 51FD/05FD stable a month and a half ago (and it took them several months to do so), do you really think they would unleash a whole new chipset with all-new problems on what is supposed to be mass-market priced levels? That would be suicide. I see them building on their existing chipset & software + reducing costs this go around.
 

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so it will be these and the reference $2k model--seems like they could have dropped one of the 2 lower priced ones and put in something a little prettier and sturdier in the middle--$1k-1200 price range. curious how (or if) they will do over anakog.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined /forum/post/15490678


Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are already jitter-free without PQLS. So again, PCM remains the only area PQLS is useful.


~

oh boy lets do the "jitter bug" no thankyou go find yourself another partner



or better still go readup on

Advanced topics on HDaudio , might keep you better occupied and perhaps get to appreciate that over bitstreaming jitter is minimised vs sending over pcm which is more prone to jitter. but bitstreaming inherently is certainly not "jitter free" and there are still opportunities for jitter.


now whether the pio can only use pqls over pcm thats another thing. but the qoute from the link announcing the players says it will be used over "stream" of "Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio" for a jitter free surround sound. certainly doesnt say anywhere it only works over pcm to me


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined /forum/post/15490678


~


I really don't think they are going to be that different. Pioneer just got the 51FD/05FD stable a month and a half ago, do you really think they would unleash a whole new chipset with all-new problems on what is supposed to be mass-market priced levels? That would be suicide.

as I mentioned the 05/51 are 1 year old designs already they were announced 1 year ago at CES jsut like this new current range is now.


One year in BD tech is an eternity. consider perhaps pio has learned a mountain in the last year and bringing out better players than they ever have. learning from their mistakes. theyd be fools to not do so. theyve never sat on their hands before. Ever sucessive range of player they have released was better and no other manufactures especially a tech leader here in pio I know woudl be that silly to sit still over the course of a year
 

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Looks like my HD1 might finally be replaced in the theater! The 23FD is exactly what I am looking for. $600 is a great price and has all the bells and whistles I am looking for! Not sure if I like the slim type of case. I have to get use to it I guess, I am use to my HD1 which is a lot taller, and the 51/05 models are even taller.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile /forum/post/15490792


so it will be these and the reference $2k model--seems like they could have dropped one of the 2 lower priced ones and put in something a little prettier and sturdier in the middle--$1k-1200 price range. curious how (or if) they will do over anakog.

I would say so denophile the pio big daddy will still be king. I imagine if previous pios anythign to go by and I owned the pio and the sony equivalent earlier gen pio in the s1e. with these lower players the 23fd elite probably has middling dac and analog stage better than the run of the mill but still an after thought compared to players like the sony bdp-s5000es or the denon 3800 i would say. the pio 09 would most defintely lead the pack analog wise I reckon. though why youd bother with minimal setup and configuration ability in the player I really wonder !
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau /forum/post/15490799


oh boy lets do the "jitter bug" no thankyou go find yourself another partner



or better still go readup on

Advanced topics on HDaudio , might keep you better occupied and perhaps get to appreciate that over bitstreaming jitter is minimised vs sending over pcm which is more prone to jitter. but bitstreaming inherently is certainly not "jitter free" and there are still opportunities for jitter.


now whether the pio can only use pqls over pcm thats another thing. but the qoute from the link announcing the players says it will be used over "stream" of "Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio" for a jitter free surround sound. certainly doesnt say anywhere it only works over pcm to me





as I mentioned the 05/51 are 1 year old designs already they were announced 1 year ago at CES jsut like this new current range is now.


One year in BD tech is an eternity. consider perhaps pio has learned a mountain in the last year and bringing out better players than they ever have. learning from their mistakes. theyd be fools to not do so. theyve never sat on their hands before. Ever sucessive range of player they have released was better and no other manufactures especially a tech leader here in pio I know woudl be that silly to sit still over the course of a year

I am sure these contain most of the "guts" from the 51/05, except maybe the drive, but are most likely improved quite a bit over the current models. We shall see what real worlds tests on these players bring, but they look promising so far. I am sure that Pioneer will not let another fiasco happen like last year when the 51/05 models were released.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTMan34 /forum/post/15490867


I am sure these contain most of the "guts" from the 51/05, except maybe the drive, but are most likely improved quite a bit over the current models. We shall see what real worlds tests on these players bring, but they look promising so far. I am sure that Pioneer will not let another fiasco happen like last year when the 51/05 models were released.

absolutely HTman, thats what I'm think and cant imgaine otherwise
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined /forum/post/15490200


My bet is that these are cost-reduced revisions of the 51/05, with the few addons necessary to do BD-Live.

my feel too. totally dislike the "plasticky" look. guess it's pio's answer to Panny/Sony/Samsung's $200 players. Not for me. For example I just dun believe u can pack a proper power supply unit in such a small casing. and where is the proper "feet" ? cost cutting, cost cutting. this is obvious.

I'm sticking with my 51 for another year.
 

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How is the BDP-320 going to do 48 bit Deep Color when it's not in the Bluray spec? I'm starting to see Bluray players from different companies with Deep Color listed as a feature.


Is this some sort of upconversion process?
 
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