pioneer DVR - backup DVR-HDD to external HDD
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Unfortunately not, the best you'll be able to do is backup to RAM discs. The + side is it will be lossless both ways, IOW you won't lose any quality, of course the down side is a RAM disc only holds ~4.7GB(actually closer to 4.4GB).
Panasonic direct sells good RAM discs as well as retail Frys electronics(cheaper in the computer dept.).
Your only other way would be realtime which would incur a loss because of the re-encode and also take a very long time.
Panasonic direct sells good RAM discs as well as retail Frys electronics(cheaper in the computer dept.).
Your only other way would be realtime which would incur a loss because of the re-encode and also take a very long time.
i was asking for too much i guess ;-)
is it possible to copy from "pionner to PC" ? (eventually PC to mybook )
connected MAC, pioneer doesn't recognize it... page 99(manual) has windows all over...
i will stop by , any specific brand recommended or is it panasonic-brand ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff /forum/post/18247370
Unfortunately not, the best you'll be able to do is backup to RAM discs. ...
i was asking for too much i guess ;-)
is it possible to copy from "pionner to PC" ? (eventually PC to mybook )
connected MAC, pioneer doesn't recognize it... page 99(manual) has windows all over...
Quote:
as retail Frys electronics(cheaper in the computer dept.).
i will stop by , any specific brand recommended or is it panasonic-brand ?
You can back up in High Speed everything to DVDs, -R/RW, +R/RW or even +R DL. It will be cheaper than RAM discs. Use good media TY or Verbatim, hower my Pio's (460 & 660) like also +RWs with Philips 041 ID of different brands (Maxwell, HP, Memorex), but it's a crapshoot to find them.
Since RAM discs are a rather niche market I don't think you're going to find a bad brand. Panasonics are good as are Fuji and probably more.
If Pioneers allow HS to and from non RAM discs then by all means do that. RWs are much cheaper and easier to find than RAM discs, Sams club carries a spindle of Verbatim -RW discs that are ~$1 each. Panasonic DVDRs only allow HS to and from using RAM discs which is why I mentioned RAMs, sounds like Pioneers are more flexible.
If Pioneers allow HS to and from non RAM discs then by all means do that. RWs are much cheaper and easier to find than RAM discs, Sams club carries a spindle of Verbatim -RW discs that are ~$1 each. Panasonic DVDRs only allow HS to and from using RAM discs which is why I mentioned RAMs, sounds like Pioneers are more flexible.
I'm probably the biggest booster here of Pioneer recorders, I've been using-repairing-upgrading them since 2004, but even I have to admit they made some pretty bogus and vague claims about "PC connectivity" and "multimedia jukebox" features on the x50 and x60 model series. The features are extremely limited and/or don't work at all: any claims of USB-PC utility are completely specious and the Ethernet port on the 660 is a joke without a punchline.
Ignore the feature card glued to the unit and any remarks in the instruction manual that concern anything beyond recording from television sources or a camcorder: like every other DVD/HDD machine sold in th North America, the Pioneers obey Hollywood dictates against direct video file transfers to a PC or external hard drive. There is no way to copy videos from the recorder HDD to an external HDD or PC that will keep those files in the native, editable, "live" Pioneer format. However you CAN back up the files at lossless high speed to RW or R discs, if you tell the recorder to format the discs as VR (this is automatic on +RW but you'll need to manually go into the Disc Setup>Format menu to select VR on a blank -R or +R).
When Pioneer DVDs are formatted as VR, they retain the same file format as the recorder hard drive, so at a later time you can high speed copy the video files back to the HDD as if they'd never been deleted. Note that Pioneer VR mode DVD-R, DVD+R and DVD-RW will not play on a normal dvd player and computers will have trouble reading them: they are strictly for recorder use. DVD+RW has been standardized on all recorders as a more generic VR variant, so its compatible with any hardware that can play +RW.
If you want to move videos from the Pioneer to your PC for more elaborate authoring, its better to make normal finalized DVD-RW discs instead. Load a blank -RW, go into the Home Menu, select Disc Setup, click on Initialize Disc, and choose the "video mode format" button. Exit the setup menus and go into the Copy menu, select the recordings you want to back up, but before hitting the Start button choose Finalize- a selection of menu screens will appear, choose one and disc burning will begin. This creates a "normal" DVD structure most PC software can work with, play, archive or deconstruct, and after copying to the PC you can erase/reuse the RW disc. As jjeff and tonypeter mentioned, you can also use RAM discs if your PC drive/software supports this, as well as +RW without finalizing if your PC setup can handle that.
If all you wanted to do was get recordings off your Pioneer HDD and keep them, probably the simplest thing to do is make normal finalized DVD-R disc. These can be stored in your library as-is, and ripped to a PC for re-authoring or hard drive playback. Good -R like TY or Verbatim is pretty cheap at 30 cents a disc, so unless you have no desire at all for a generic library DVD this is the easiest backup option. All Pioneer x40, x50 and x60 models will high speed copy 4.4GB of files from HDD to DVD in about 11 minutes, using any media (RAM and RW will be a little slower). The only restrictions occur when weird recordings contain mixed 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratios (this is fairly rare), or the recording has a broadcast copy-protection flag, or the recording uses one of the extremely long-play HDD speeds. Even in those cases, choosing DVD-RAM or DVD+RW will almost always get around the issue. I've often found that deleting the original "problem" HDD recording and then copying it back from the RAM or +RW removes those restrictions, allowing a normal DVD-R to be made.
Ignore the feature card glued to the unit and any remarks in the instruction manual that concern anything beyond recording from television sources or a camcorder: like every other DVD/HDD machine sold in th North America, the Pioneers obey Hollywood dictates against direct video file transfers to a PC or external hard drive. There is no way to copy videos from the recorder HDD to an external HDD or PC that will keep those files in the native, editable, "live" Pioneer format. However you CAN back up the files at lossless high speed to RW or R discs, if you tell the recorder to format the discs as VR (this is automatic on +RW but you'll need to manually go into the Disc Setup>Format menu to select VR on a blank -R or +R).
When Pioneer DVDs are formatted as VR, they retain the same file format as the recorder hard drive, so at a later time you can high speed copy the video files back to the HDD as if they'd never been deleted. Note that Pioneer VR mode DVD-R, DVD+R and DVD-RW will not play on a normal dvd player and computers will have trouble reading them: they are strictly for recorder use. DVD+RW has been standardized on all recorders as a more generic VR variant, so its compatible with any hardware that can play +RW.
If you want to move videos from the Pioneer to your PC for more elaborate authoring, its better to make normal finalized DVD-RW discs instead. Load a blank -RW, go into the Home Menu, select Disc Setup, click on Initialize Disc, and choose the "video mode format" button. Exit the setup menus and go into the Copy menu, select the recordings you want to back up, but before hitting the Start button choose Finalize- a selection of menu screens will appear, choose one and disc burning will begin. This creates a "normal" DVD structure most PC software can work with, play, archive or deconstruct, and after copying to the PC you can erase/reuse the RW disc. As jjeff and tonypeter mentioned, you can also use RAM discs if your PC drive/software supports this, as well as +RW without finalizing if your PC setup can handle that.
If all you wanted to do was get recordings off your Pioneer HDD and keep them, probably the simplest thing to do is make normal finalized DVD-R disc. These can be stored in your library as-is, and ripped to a PC for re-authoring or hard drive playback. Good -R like TY or Verbatim is pretty cheap at 30 cents a disc, so unless you have no desire at all for a generic library DVD this is the easiest backup option. All Pioneer x40, x50 and x60 models will high speed copy 4.4GB of files from HDD to DVD in about 11 minutes, using any media (RAM and RW will be a little slower). The only restrictions occur when weird recordings contain mixed 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratios (this is fairly rare), or the recording has a broadcast copy-protection flag, or the recording uses one of the extremely long-play HDD speeds. Even in those cases, choosing DVD-RAM or DVD+RW will almost always get around the issue. I've often found that deleting the original "problem" HDD recording and then copying it back from the RAM or +RW removes those restrictions, allowing a normal DVD-R to be made.
Thanks jjeff.
Thank you tonypeter, will try DVD -RW , or DVD -R at SAMS as jjeff suggested
Thank you... i was little optimistic coz i bought an international model ;-) , now i get it.
will have to check my PC/MAC.
Two requirements:
- i like to BACKUP the recordings on to Westerdigital-MYBOOK
- need to playback the show via "MYBOOK" (oppo player)
From what i understood , seems like , the "round" way to do this
Pioneer HDD --> DVD -RW in VR MODE (& finalize) --> insert DVD -RW into PC/MAC(with MYBOOK) --> COPY programs to MYBOOK --> Reuse DVD -RW
this is complicated than i originally thought ;-(
thanks for all your help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff /forum/post/18250612
...Panasonics are good as are Fuji ...
... Sams club carries a spindle of Verbatim -RW discs that are ~$1 each.. .
Thanks jjeff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonypeter /forum/post/18248242
You can back up in High Speed everything to DVDs, -R/RW, +R/RW or even +R DL. It will be cheaper than RAM discs. Use good media TY or Verbatim, ...
Thank you tonypeter, will try DVD -RW , or DVD -R at SAMS as jjeff suggested
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/18255793
...obey Hollywood dictates ... There is no way to copy videos from the recorder HDD to an external HDD or PC
Thank you... i was little optimistic coz i bought an international model ;-) , now i get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/18255793
As jjeff and tonypeter mentioned, you can also use RAM discs if your PC drive/software supports this, as well as +RW without finalizing if your PC setup can handle that.
will have to check my PC/MAC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/18255793
If you want to move videos from the Pioneer to your PC ... normal finalized DVD-RW discs instead. ..... This creates a "normal" DVD structure most PC software can work with, play, archive or deconstruct, and after copying to the PC you can erase/reuse the RW disc. ...
Two requirements:
- i like to BACKUP the recordings on to Westerdigital-MYBOOK
- need to playback the show via "MYBOOK" (oppo player)
From what i understood , seems like , the "round" way to do this
Pioneer HDD --> DVD -RW in VR MODE (& finalize) --> insert DVD -RW into PC/MAC(with MYBOOK) --> COPY programs to MYBOOK --> Reuse DVD -RW
this is complicated than i originally thought ;-(
thanks for all your help.
I droned on and on about all the various ways you can back up files on a Pioneer because you weren't specific about what you wanted to do, and the question comes up anyway due to Pioneers none-too-intuitive manuals. What I said about using VR mode applies only if you want to temporarily offload recordings from the Pioneer HDD onto DVDs, while retaining the ability to high-speed lossless copy them back to the Pioneer HDD later for further editing. The VR mode in Pioneer recorders is a proprietary file format, not to be confused with "normal" DVDs or the standard generic VR structure used by all DVD+RW discs.
Apparently your specific need is to move recordings from the Pioneer HDD to your Western Digital MyBook system. This requires the files be in a standard format MyBook will understand, usually DiVX, AVI or MPEG2/VOB/DVD disc image. Recorders are not capable of converting files on their HDD into DiVX or other portable formats, all they can do is create normal DVDs for universal playback or proprietary VR discs for personal backup. About he only way you can get files from your Pioneer into your MyBook is to make normal finalized video-mode DVDs (not VR mode). You then use your computer to either rip the DVDs into disc images or create AVIs or DiVX files, whatever is most convenient or space efficient for your MyBook. If you don't want to keep the backup DVDs forever, reusable DVD-RW is fine. Just be sure its formatted to "video mode" in the Pioneer disc setup menu, and finalize it before ripping to your PC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutronn /forum/post/18257268
Two requirements:
- i like to BACKUP the recordings on to Westerdigital-MYBOOK
- need to playback the show via "MYBOOK" (oppo player)
I droned on and on about all the various ways you can back up files on a Pioneer because you weren't specific about what you wanted to do, and the question comes up anyway due to Pioneers none-too-intuitive manuals. What I said about using VR mode applies only if you want to temporarily offload recordings from the Pioneer HDD onto DVDs, while retaining the ability to high-speed lossless copy them back to the Pioneer HDD later for further editing. The VR mode in Pioneer recorders is a proprietary file format, not to be confused with "normal" DVDs or the standard generic VR structure used by all DVD+RW discs.
Apparently your specific need is to move recordings from the Pioneer HDD to your Western Digital MyBook system. This requires the files be in a standard format MyBook will understand, usually DiVX, AVI or MPEG2/VOB/DVD disc image. Recorders are not capable of converting files on their HDD into DiVX or other portable formats, all they can do is create normal DVDs for universal playback or proprietary VR discs for personal backup. About he only way you can get files from your Pioneer into your MyBook is to make normal finalized video-mode DVDs (not VR mode). You then use your computer to either rip the DVDs into disc images or create AVIs or DiVX files, whatever is most convenient or space efficient for your MyBook. If you don't want to keep the backup DVDs forever, reusable DVD-RW is fine. Just be sure its formatted to "video mode" in the Pioneer disc setup menu, and finalize it before ripping to your PC.
yes you did, and i didn't know that i was dealing with proprietary-format when i originally asked the question.
i will use a DVD-RW, choose video-mode before copying & finalizing.
is the DVD disk image same format of normal-DVD, which can be stored in MYBOOK.
Thank you all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/18258736
... I droned on and on about all the various ways you can back up files..... What I said about using VR mode applies only if you want to temporarily offload recordings from the Pioneer HDD onto DVDs, .... The VR mode in Pioneer recorders is a proprietary file format, not to be confused with "normal" DVDs or the standard generic VR structure used by all DVD+RW discs.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/18258736
Apparently your specific need is to move recordings from the Pioneer HDD to your Western Digital MyBook system.
yes you did, and i didn't know that i was dealing with proprietary-format when i originally asked the question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/18258736
About he only way you can get files from your Pioneer into your MyBook is to make normal finalized video-mode DVDs (not VR mode). ...... Just be sure its formatted to "video mode" in the Pioneer disc setup menu, and finalize it before ripping to your PC
i will use a DVD-RW, choose video-mode before copying & finalizing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/18258736
This requires the files be in a standard format MyBook will understand, usually DiVX, AVI or MPEG2/VOB/DVD disc image. Recorders are not capable of converting files on their HDD into DiVX or other portable formats, all they can do is create normal DVDs for universal playback or proprietary VR discs for personal backup.
is the DVD disk image same format of normal-DVD, which can be stored in MYBOOK.
Thank you all.
Both my Sony 995 400 disc changer, and my Oppo 980 WILL play unfinalized -RW VR mode discs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/18255793
Note that Pioneer VR mode DVD-R, DVD+R and DVD-RW will not play on a normal dvd player
Both my Sony 995 400 disc changer, and my Oppo 980 WILL play unfinalized -RW VR mode discs.
Compatibility depends on your particular hardware brands and their ages. Oppos are the niche players from Mars, designed for fussy fanatics like us AVS trolls: they play most anything that remotely resembles a VOB file. But typical consumers have mass-market players from Venus, which tend not to recognize the half-assed "VR" discs many recorders create. "VR" also means one thing to say, Pioneer, and quite another to Phillips/Magnavox/Toshiba: the latter three use a more modern semi-standardized variation of "VR" for all media, which many current players can read. Pioneer and other old-school recorders use proprietary, brand-specific "VR" for all media (except +RW) which often won't read on older ordinary players. At least the mfrs all agreed on a standard VR format for +RW media.
Here, its more a question of whats the fastest way to get Pioneer recordings onto the MyBook- I would think standard dvd (ISO) disc images, made from finalized video-mode -RW, unless neutronn is using software players that can read Pioneers -VR format from the MyBook. If neutronn has time to do conversions, and wants to keep Pioneer recordings archived on the MyBook indefinitely, making DiVX files from the DVD-RWs might be a more efficient use of the MyBook's capacity than storing ISO images.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbawc /forum/post/18268613
Both my Sony 995 400 disc changer, and my Oppo 980 WILL play unfinalized -RW VR mode discs.
Compatibility depends on your particular hardware brands and their ages. Oppos are the niche players from Mars, designed for fussy fanatics like us AVS trolls: they play most anything that remotely resembles a VOB file. But typical consumers have mass-market players from Venus, which tend not to recognize the half-assed "VR" discs many recorders create. "VR" also means one thing to say, Pioneer, and quite another to Phillips/Magnavox/Toshiba: the latter three use a more modern semi-standardized variation of "VR" for all media, which many current players can read. Pioneer and other old-school recorders use proprietary, brand-specific "VR" for all media (except +RW) which often won't read on older ordinary players. At least the mfrs all agreed on a standard VR format for +RW media.
Here, its more a question of whats the fastest way to get Pioneer recordings onto the MyBook- I would think standard dvd (ISO) disc images, made from finalized video-mode -RW, unless neutronn is using software players that can read Pioneers -VR format from the MyBook. If neutronn has time to do conversions, and wants to keep Pioneer recordings archived on the MyBook indefinitely, making DiVX files from the DVD-RWs might be a more efficient use of the MyBook's capacity than storing ISO images.
glad i have oppo 980H ;-)
don't have those skills ;-)
whichever way is faster, Most probably dvd-images, unless DIVX is faster.
thank you folks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/18269802
.... Oppos are the niche players from Mars, ....
glad i have oppo 980H ;-)
Quote:
... unless neutronn is using software players that can read Pioneers -VR format from the MyBook. If neutronn has time to do conversions, ...
don't have those skills ;-)
Quote:
...the fastest way to get Pioneer recordings onto the MyBook- I would think standard dvd (ISO) disc images, made from finalized video-mode -RW,
Quote:
........and wants to keep Pioneer recordings archived on the MyBook indefinitely, making DiVX files from the DVD-RWs might be a more efficient use of the MyBook's capacity than storing ISO images...
whichever way is faster, Most probably dvd-images, unless DIVX is faster.
thank you folks.
I am a Pioneer 450H owner of more than 2 years, and is a bit worried that the machine would break down and not repairable, and a new Pio is no more available.
Now I have to be more careful with is unit.
Thanks to JJeff and Citibear for your good advices and helpful suggestions.
Now I have to be more careful with is unit.
Thanks to JJeff and Citibear for your good advices and helpful suggestions.
pttoo2, you may want to try the suggestions I have made in various threads here regarding the SATA cables in your Pioneer- this can often help with slowed or difficult operation of the recorder. If you've already re-plugged the cables, and are still having problems, you could consider installing a new HDD but this would be expensive because of the necessary service remote. Also the burner is no longer repairable or replaceable. Have you tried different media? The Sony burner used in the Pioneer 450 is very rugged but like many recorder burners it has great difficulty with 16x store-bought media once it ages a year or two. I have a Pioneer 640 from 2006 which cannot complete burns to 16x DVD-R but still works perfectly with 8x DVD-R. If you haven't tried slower media yet, shop online at supermediastore or rima for Verbatim DataLife Plus or TY/JVC 8x premium DVD-R. It doesn't cost much more than ordinary 16x media, but is much more compatible with aging DVD recorders.
I will use blank media better suited for this DVR, based on your suggestion.
So far I don't think I need to go to the cable re-plugging procedure yet.
But really appreciate your noticing of my post.
Regards,
So far I don't think I need to go to the cable re-plugging procedure yet.
But really appreciate your noticing of my post.
Regards,
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