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I have not compared the new Pioneers but last generation looked more grainy to me on DVD source. Not that Pixel structure was visible but seemed noisy or grainy somehow in picture. The Panasonic did not have this problem but on other hand lost some details in dark scenes.


Finally ended up buying the Panasonic 6uY with the DVI card added and a Momitsu DVD player with DVI out.
 

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I bought the Pioneer 4330HD last July and I really like the set. Reading this forum you will find most people prefer the commercial Pioneer models more then the consumer models. I sometime believe that a lot of people reading the forum are techie’s and enjoy finding cards to plug into their Pioneer and like the ideal of being able to buy new cards when they come out. However, I can see their point about not needing speakers or a built in tuner for up to the available of the Pioneer 4340HD the plasma sets did not have a built-in HDTV tuner. My area was slow in getting over-the-air HDTV stations so I needed a Satellite/over-the-air tuner anyway so it was not a real problem not having a built-in tuner for most of the sets I looked at. I needed the built-in speakers for my spouse has a fit when I watch during the night with all my speakers and sub-woofers on when she is in bed. She says it vibrate her bed too much.


I do not think you will go wrong with either the Pioneer or the Panasonic models. I think you will enjoy having the built-in HDTV tuner, having the external box to connect all your equipment instead of having to run all the different wires to the plasma screen. I notice Tuesday on Ebay just how much the Pioneer 4340 had drop in price and it sounds like a wonderful deal to me.


I know it is a lot of money but I now wish I had bought the 5330HD to have a larger picture. I set 9 to 10 feet away from my plasma and think I should have bought the 50-inch set. The 43-inch set is plenty large for that distance but I guess I am never satisfied.


I am still concerned about the failure rate on the new Panasonic plasma. I understand that if you can get the very latest models made after November 2003 the diode problem has been fixed. I am not putting the Panasonic down for it is a great set. I suggest you find a store to view both the Panasonic and Pioneer 4340HD side-by-side to make up your mind as to which set you prefer. A lot of the stores will allow you to be alone with the sets and you can have as much time as you need to see which set you like the best. You then can decide where to buy the set of your preference for many stores will come close to what you can buy it for on the Internet plus the shipping cost. Take the Internet ads with you to the stores for the stores have a lot of wiggle room on these sets markup.

Mike
 

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As a recent poll on this site will show you, there a many more Panasonic lovers that post here. I have the JVC PD42WV74 and love it. Best advice - use your own eyes to make a decision. Make sure you are watching the same source material on sets you are comparing. Ask for permission to mess around with picture settings. And as suggested above, bring price quotes from other stores and websites. Massive markup on these items. Some stores will match prices (some, like Circuit City, will match only if the other store has bricks and mortar location).
 

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Robert, I have the Panasonic TH42PX20 and this HD model looks stunning you can't go wrong with it. MSRP price on the 4330HD is $11,500 :eek:

for that price you can almost get two of these HD models one for the living room and the other one for the bedroom!


Tony
 

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s236 ,


as for the price issue there really ins't one. the price you qouted is suggested msrp and we all know that on this forum there are lots of folks selling this unit for a lot less. you can go into the videogon site in this forum and find this unit for $6800. So the best avdise is what has already been given here which is let your eyes be the judge.


carlos
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Hallov
I have not compared the new Pioneers but last generation looked more grainy to me on DVD source. Not that Pixel structure was visible but seemed noisy or grainy somehow in picture. The Panasonic did not have this problem but on other hand lost some details in dark scenes.


Finally ended up buying the Panasonic 6uY with the DVI card added and a Momitsu DVD player with DVI out.
I have a Costco 433CMX variant, the last and current generation of the Pio commercial panels. PQ on DVD is excellent, at least with the source set to progressive. I will look at whether or not Pio and Panny commercial panels differ in this regard when the 42PHD6UY I bought arrives. Overall the Pio PQ is excellent - stunning, in fact, on good source material. I expect the Panny to have better blacks and perhaps less banding and color dithering, but I will check that out as well. The consumer Pio and Panny plasmas look to be closer, with the Pios having a media box.


Bill
 

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It's easy to say "let your eyes be the judge". In real life that's very difficult. First of all, you are not going to see the commercial models displayed anywhere, so you have to rely on the equivalent consumer model. Then you'll have to find a high end store that has 2 or more of the consumer models in the same room, and they need to be connected to a true HD source. And hope that the connections are correct and equal, etc, etc.

In my area, only the Magnolia at Palo Alto comes close, 50" Pana, Elite and Sony

in the same room, playing HDnet. But somehow they are a bit disappointing compared with a 50 Mitsu at Andersons, and a 50 Fujitsu at GoodGuys. I don't even know how to draw a conclusion from that.

I've given up on trying to do such a comparison in my area, and may soon buy a $6k Pana 50 commercial model through one of the AVS sponsors, based simply on WOW's by so many forum members.
 

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"As a recent poll on this site will show you, there a many more Panasonic lovers that post here. I have the JVC PD42WV74 and love it."


A JVC is, in many ways, a Panasonic. I'm not sure you were slamming the Panasonic crowd, but I hope not, because you are kind of one of them.


:)
 

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The Pioneer units looked really nice in the stores, but I've had at Panny 50PX20 for about two weeks, and I'm incredibly happy with it. Even when these things are next to each other in the stores, I've seen the units have such different settings in terms of sharpness, brightness, and picture, that it is almost impossible to tell which has a better picture. One deciding factor for me was the Panny's integrated speakers and the HDMI input.
 

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I'm not slamming the Panasonic crowd at all. Their plasma screens are top-notch. I was merely pointing out that the AVS plasma crowd is largely a Panasonic crowd, so posting a topic like "Pioneer or Panasonic" is bound to get lopsided responses.


As for the JVC being "in many ways a Panasonic".....I would love to get some clarification on that. One AVS poster in another thread seemed confident that the JVC employs NEC glass, and that JVC and Panasonic were fierce rivals despite common ownership by Matsushita. Anyone know the truth?
 

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Generally, I like the Pioneer 4th generation panels. (4340, 910, 5040, 1110). The Elite models have a contrast improving filter on the front glass, which seems to mitigate the Pioneer's inability to achieve the black levels on the Panasonic glass. The non-Elite models are definitely not as capable as Panasonic based displays when it comes to low-light levels.


If that is something that detrracts from your enjoyment of the set, then a Pioneer is not for you. If it doesn't bother you, then consider it a possibility, as they have a lot going for them. They do produce a very rich and dynamic picture and the media box is very well equipped for connectivity.


The Panasonic (and other based on it) are king of contrast, rendering blacks like no other. They have some quirks though, but in general I like them a lot too.


It just depends largely on what you need in terms of connectivity and what image quality tradeoffs are important to you.


I'm stuck on the fence between a TH50PHD6UY (commercial panny) and a 1110HD. Those are my two favorites. I'd be happy with either one.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by woodgab
Bill,


Looking forward to your review. What?s your lighting?


Chris
Lighting? Family room corner, not the best in terms of even backlighting. Bright in daytime (lots of Windows). The Pio handles this well.

[EDIT AFTER POST: Ignore EVERYTHING I say down below about the Panny looking bad. All the defects were due to poorly seated cables. OK, so I was in a bit of a hurry. Still they SEEMED seated. Re-checked them. BAM!! PQ is great. Amazing that loose cables can cause all these specific PQ defects. Instead of deleting this post, I'll leave it up as a lesson.]

I received the Panny 42PHD6UY today. Compared to my Costco "433-CMX variant", here is the prelim report (grain of salt until later tonight after I fiddle more):

Out of box overall PQ winner using DVD progressive and cable HDTV sources (both component) - Pio by far. Much crisper image. Panny looks soft and yet has false edges! Turned down sharpness, false edges resolved but Panny was even softer. Pio is like a finely focused photo with remarkable detail and no harshness or false edges at all. Panny looks processed (smoothed). HDTV showed lots of dancing pixel artifacts in fields of even color like sky. Could not find a DNR setting. Pio never looked this bad. MAYBE source was bad, but both channels (different movies) looked awful. Did not get a chance to A/B. More HDTV tonight and will A/B. VERY DISAPPOINTED in the Panny at this point.


Blacks - Panny is better by far. Pio is gray compared to Panny black. Panny is far blacker when off and when tuned on without signal. Panny must be using a dark glass filter. I think this has adverse effects elsewhere.


Image vividness/punch - Pio by far. Panny looks subdued (and I would not call this "natural" at all) despite Picture (contrast) setting being goosed (25 out of 30) BY DEFAULT. Pio setting is centered (zero) by default and has far more contrast setting range despite more limited contrast ratio rating. Panny in "dynamic" looks garish and oversaturated. It's remarkable how far off the Panny settings appear to be. It looks like someone fussed with them, but these are factory defaults, as far as I can tell. Pio was all set to center (zero) by default and looked great in terms of PQ and Avia. Sometimes I fiddle with Pio settings, but this is minor and default is very good. Not so with Panny.


Others have made occasional comments that this year's Panny's seem "softer" than previous models. I thought this must be wrong. Others have said it is BS. Since I don't have a 5UY or 4UY, I can't directly answer that question, but at this point I think the complaint has some merit.


Clearly this is not a complete and fair evaluation. I will try to do that tonight. But this is better than most people get, and if I had to choose which panel I could live with, it would be the Pio. My wife and I gawk at the detail in people's faces, the remarkable color rendering in DVDs and HDTV movies with the Pio. The Panny has a long way to go in these areas. I will fiddle more tonight, but it will be a surprise if I can get the Panny to be as sharp and lifelike as the Pio.


I was firmly committed to returning the Pio and spent another $5K to bring in the Panny. My family thinks I am nuts - could be. I can't believe I have $10k tied up in an an experiment with TVs. I NEED the Panny to win so I can take the Pio back. What a dilemma.


More to follow.


Bill
 
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