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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok people so I went to a store with my buddy he wanted to buy a 1080p plasma...after doing some research i noticed that true 1080P plasmas are few and far from the consumers fingertips and if you do get your hands on one they will cost you a pretty penny.....then we came across about 15 sales reps who claimed that the pioneer PDP-5070HD was a TRUE 1080P television, they explained to me that this was last years Elite model which was brought down to the basic model line.


So my friend bought the tv...set him back almost 5K CDN with warranty and all


I got curious and checked some other sites...future shop and bestbuy claim that this TV only does 1080I and the native resolution is 1376x768 (which to my knowledge is the native res for 1080i televisions) from what i understand about any true 1080p the native resolution should be 1920x1080


then i got more curious and called pioneer and asked them...they told me the television can accept a 1080p signal and display it at 24HZ ONLY through the HDMI ports...


so can someone please tell me what the deal is on this tv...is it a true 1080P or is it false advertising??? is this a 1080i with the capability to upscale the image to 1080p....
 

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currently 4 plasma sets out with 1080P.

1080P is a set that displays 1920x1080 in progressive

1080i is also 1920x1080 but interlaced.


the current sets out now are the pioneer fhd1 50"

panasonic has the 50" and 65" PF series industrial/commercial units and the th65px600u consumer model for sale, all arte 1080P.


you should see several more coming from different manufacturers in this year.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony_audi /forum/post/0


Ok people so I went to a store with my buddy he wanted to buy a 1080p plasma...after doing some research i noticed that true 1080P plasmas are few and far from the consumers fingertips and if you do get your hands on one they will cost you a pretty penny.....then we came across about 15 sales reps who claimed that the pioneer PDP-5070HD was a TRUE 1080P television, they explained to me that this was last years Elite model which was brought down to the basic model line.


So my friend bought the tv...set him back almost 5K CDN with warranty and all


I got curious and checked some other sites...future shop and bestbuy claim that this TV only does 1080I and the native resolution is 1376x768 (which to my knowledge is the native res for 1080i televisions) from what i understand about any true 1080p the native resolution should be 1920x1080


then i got more curious and called pioneer and asked them...they told me the television can accept a 1080p signal and display it at 24HZ ONLY through the HDMI ports...


so can someone please tell me what the deal is on this tv...is it a true 1080P or is it false advertising??? is this a 1080i with the capability to upscale the image to 1080p....

What you, and your friend, need to understand is the difference between (1) the resolution of an input signal that a given plasma can accept and (2) the resolution displayed on the screen.


Plasma is a fixed pixel device. Each display has a fixed number of pixels (dots) on the screen that make up the picture. Those that have 1366 across x 768 high are referred to as 768p resolution. Those that have 1920 x 1080 are referred to as 1080p resolution. The "p" indicates these are all displayed at the same time "progressively" as opposed to interleaved via alternating lines as in a traditional CRT TV.


Plasmas, however, can accept source signals of a number of resolutions. When the resolution of the input is different than the display's screen resolution, which is often the case, the display has electronic circuity called a scaler that converts (scales) the signal to the screen's resolution. It makes the input fit the screen.


Until late last year, the display resolution of plasmas was 768p (some were less) and most displays still are 768p. Some of these displays could accept a signal of greater resolution, such as 1080i/p, but the display's scaler would downconvert these signals to fit the 768p screen. Some misleading sales people will say attempt to imply these are 1080p displays when they are not. They can display a signal that started out as 1080p but they only display the signal at 768p, a lower resolution.


Unless you view at very close distances, you will not be able to perceive the difference 1080p brings and so I would not normally worry about having a 768p display. However, if you want to view at say closer than 7-8', then 1080p becomes a must otherwise you will begin to see the black stripes between the pixels that appepar as if looking through a screen door. This is called SDE for Screen Door Effect.


Last year a few first generation 1080p displays appeared from a copuple of makers, later this year a number of 1080p displays will come to market from several brands. These will all come at a premium although prices are continuing to fall. The real advantage of 1080p is in larger displays like 65-80".


Hope this helps you better understand.


Cheers,



Gary
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
thanks gary!

so if i get the jist of it....something over 768p isnt really a necissity since it is hard to tell the difference....

what id like to know is what the big hype over 1080p is??

lets assume i buy a 50' should i be worried about whether it can display in 1080p? should i wait for newer models to come out? should i go ahead and buy this pioneer also?? i get what u are saying and i am just trying to make sense of the $1300 price difference between the panasonic and the pioneer..


as far as resolution is concerned id liek to get the best tv for my money i dont particularly want to spend 5000 but if there is a tv that can do 1080p for lets say a 4000 plus tax price range it wouldnt hurt me to get it...


im just interested in knowing if what the sales people are telling me (that it is the only true 1080p plasma on the market) is true or if they are misinformed about the television and selling people something that isnt true
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony_audi /forum/post/0


what id like to know is what the big hype over 1080p is??

1080p is technically better than 768p, as it has smaller pixels to display the image. But is is not necessarly better in real world viewing. Basically the eye can only resolve details to a certian leve of detail. Say you take a book and set it up 10 feet away, you can't read it because you eyes do not have the capablity to resolve the individual letters.


But once you get close enough... For a 50" display such as your buddy bought, you need to sit about 8 feet or closer before your eyes can begin to resolve the difference between 1080p and 768p.


Oh, by the the way, the ISF (an imaging standards organization) lists resolution as the 4th factor in image quality behind such things as contrast ratios and color accuracy. So, if it's only #4 & really doesn't make a difference unless you sit close, why is everyone talking about it?


3 reasons:

The first is that the important things such as contrast ratio are not based upon a standard across the industry. Thus each manufacture is left to determine their own contrast ratio measurements, so they can't be compared because everyone is doing it differently.


The second is that pixel count is what defines HD. Below a certian pixel count, it must be called ED, below another threshold and it must be called SD. So people already know that more pixels is better, otherwise it wouldn't be HD. What they fail to realize is that there is a threshold of sight, afterwhich more does not become better.


The third is that it is much easier to make high pixel cound LCDs then it is plasmas. In the continuing wars to gain the most market share, the LCD manufactures continue to push pixel count. If they can get everyone to accept that 1080p is automatically better than 768p, they're more likely to gain market share. If they can make it THE issue, then they can minimize their other shortcomings such as contrast ratios.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony_audi /forum/post/0


lets assume i buy a 50' should i be worried about whether it can display in 1080p?

It depends on how close you sit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony_audi /forum/post/0


should i wait for newer models to come out?

Well, the longer you wait, the price should continue to drop and each new generation has improvements kind of like computers, on the other hand you miss out on the display while you wait. It's a personal choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony_audi /forum/post/0


chould i go ahead and buy this pioneer also?? i get what u are saying and i am just trying to make sense of the $1300 price difference between the panasonic and the pioneer..

You can get a much better priced pioneer through forum sponsors (I would avoid TVAuthority as there have been many horror stories about them lately). The pioneer tends to have better SD (many tv shows are still broadcast in SD). Some like the HD picture better on the pioneer also, but they're fairly close for most people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony_audi /forum/post/0


as far as resolution is concerned id liek to get the best tv for my money i dont particularly want to spend 5000 but if there is a tv that can do 1080p for lets say a 4000 plus tax price range it wouldnt hurt me to get it...

If you need 1080p, and can't affords something like the Pioneer FHD1 you could consider LCDs. Don't forget that they have other shortcomings though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony_audi /forum/post/0


now one last quick question...whats a good plasma right now in the 50" range?

LOL! the eternal question



It depends on how much you're willing to spend. If you want to keep it under $5000, there are some excellent recommendations in this post
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=792607


If you want "the best" and aren't afraid to spend money, there are some other options.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony_audi /forum/post/0


great response! thanks for the info!


now one last quick question...whats a good plasma right now in the 50" range?

My opinion NEC is #1 with Pioneer Elite #2. These are followed by Pioneer and Panasonic (no order here as each of these two have pros and cons and a loyal following) with Samsung catching up each year.


Cheers,



Gary


PM me if you want a more detailed discussion that might include pricing considerations
 

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the panasonic th50px60u is on sale this week at best buy for under $2k. might be easy to look at and easy to return if you didn't like it.


visual apex has a great deal on the pio 5070 shipped for under $2.5k both are great current model 50" plasmas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
its a hard decision to make i know that in the end it is a tv and unless i am really going to be picky at what kind of tv i buy then im not going to notice that much of a difference between whatever tv i choose...i mean in the end everything looks great on plasmas no matter which one i buy....i just dont want to spend like 4000 dollars and not be happy or say to myself


for an extra 300 dollars i could have got the better one....im basically lookin for this tv to put my pc////television////dvd////all the other stuff that i can possibly attach to it together...i dont like having a monitor and a tv in my room id rather just have 1...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by why2not /forum/post/0


1080p is technically better than 768p, as it has smaller pixels to display the image. But is is not necessarly better in real world viewing. Basically the eye can only resolve details to a certian leve of detail. Say you take a book and set it up 10 feet away, you can't read it because you eyes do not have the capablity to resolve the individual letters.


But once you get close enough... For a 50" display such as your buddy bought, you need to sit about 8 feet or closer before your eyes can begin to resolve the difference between 1080p and 768p.


Oh, by the the way, the ISF (an imaging standards organization) lists resolution as the 4th factor in image quality behind such things as contrast ratios and color accuracy. So, if it's only #4 & really doesn't make a difference unless you sit close, why is everyone talking about it?


3 reasons:

The first is that the important things such as contrast ratio are not based upon a standard across the industry. Thus each manufacture is left to determine their own contrast ratio measurements, so they can't be compared because everyone is doing it differently.


The second is that pixel count is what defines HD. Below a certian pixel count, it must be called ED, below another threshold and it must be called SD. So people already know that more pixels is better, otherwise it wouldn't be HD. What they fail to realize is that there is a threshold of sight, afterwhich more does not become better.


The third is that it is much easier to make high pixel cound LCDs then it is plasmas. In the continuing wars to gain the most market share, the LCD manufactures continue to push pixel count. If they can get everyone to accept that 1080p is automatically better than 768p, they're more likely to gain market share. If they can make it THE issue, then they can minimize their other shortcomings such as contrast ratios.



It depends on how close you sit.


Well, the longer you wait, the price should continue to drop and each new generation has improvements kind of like computers, on the other hand you miss out on the display while you wait. It's a personal choice.



You can get a much better priced pioneer through forum sponsors (I would avoid TVAuthority as there have been many horror stories about them lately). The pioneer tends to have better SD (many tv shows are still broadcast in SD). Some like the HD picture better on the pioneer also, but they're fairly close for most people.



If you need 1080p, and can't affords something like the Pioneer FHD1 you could consider LCDs. Don't forget that they have other shortcomings though.

There are some really good points here.


The other important thing to consider is what you are going to be watching.


If you can get a match between the native resolution of the panel and the source material you will get a better image.


When you don't have a 1:1 match in resolution between the display and the source, there needs to be scaling, unfortunately even the best scaling in the world will introduce unwated effects to the final image.


A few years back, I spec'd out a friends home cinema and because his only image source was PAL DVDs, I recommended he get a 576 line SIM DLP projector. So although he could afford and much higher resolution projector, the 1:1 match between his source and this projector yielded a brighter, sharper picture than the more expensive SIM.


As 1080p becomes more common as an image source with things Blu-Ray and PS3 games, the benefit of having a 1080p plasma will increase.
 
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