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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have noticed when watching OTA HDTV broadcasts, that when the camera pans quickly there is very noticable pixelation going on.


I'm pretty sure that this is an artifact of compression somewhere in the signal chain and I was wondering where this happens?


Does it stem from the network? My local TV broadcaster? A built-in limitation of OTA HDTV? My ATI HDTV Wonder card?


I'm curious if there's anything I can do to improve this, or if I can expect it to improve as broadcasters upgrade their equipment.
 

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It may bve a band width limitation. In seattle, the WB used to split the transmitter with FOX, everytime there was any movement on Smallville in HD the picture would break up, now that they are not sharing a transmitter the pic quality is much better.


Then my ABC station started a sub channel & their pic quality went down.

If the channel you are having trouble with is multi casting that could be it, or they could have sold off some of their bandwith to USDTV, you don't say where you are at.
 

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Most likely its a poor quality encoder at the local station and/or they are using too low of a bitrate on that channel. Is the signal level received strong and does it ever vary?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I am in the Bay Area and I have seen this issue on several stations, so I wondered if it was an inherent limitation of the OTA HDTV broadcasts.


An OTA HD signal has a certain amount of bandwidth available to it. Is that enough bandwidth to deliver a 1080i signal under worst case conditions for the standard mpeg compression used in the transport stream?
 

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preiter,


A fast camera pan could present a problem even when supplied with all available bandwidth, but a slow camera pan should not present a problem for a broadcaster using 19.4Mbps. Unfortunately, many broadcasters aren't providing their feed with 19.4Mbps or even 16Mbps.


The only thing you can do is call their engineering department and complain. If enough people complain, perhaps they'll increase the bandwidth allotted to the HD feed.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by preiter
I am in the Bay Area and I have seen this issue on several stations, so I wondered if it was an inherent limitation of the OTA HDTV broadcasts.


An OTA HD signal has a certain amount of bandwidth available to it. Is that enough bandwidth to deliver a 1080i signal under worst case conditions for the standard mpeg compression used in the transport stream?
Based on my observations, the 19.2Mb/sec is not quite enough for 1080i signal in all conditions. Full 60fps video with scenes like strobe lights can cause severe macroblocking. Many real-time encoders are worse than others too. However I've seen 720p stations that have no problems so 720p is fine with 19.2Mb/sec bitrate. Some stations multicast and reduce the bitrate for the HD channel - that will totally kill 1080i quality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What is multicasting? There is a certain amount of bandwidth on the airwaves allocated to each station, right? So how can some of that bandwidth be used for something else?
 

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OTA digital broadcasting can have sub channels. Within the 19.2mbps allocated bandwidth, it is very common for a station for broadcast 2 or even 3 sub channels: one main HD channel and the rest as SD channels. All these channels share the same 19.2 mbps bandwidth.
 

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preiter,


A broadcaster has 19.4Mbps with 8-VSB. They can divide it among as many channels as they want. Some broadcasters dedicate it all to the HD feed (best quality), while others divide it among HD and SD feeds for weather, news, etc. The 7-1 channel might be the HD feed, 7-2 might be a weather channel, 7-3 might be a news channel, etc.


A broadcaster can also choose to use some (or most) of its 19.4Mbps for datacasting or Internet access.
 

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Good multicasting explanations everyone. Thanks.


So the bottom line is that it is probably your local broadcaster's fault since they are probably multicasting. It is possible they are not multicasting and instead have their encoders set up incorrectly or their encoders could be malfunctioning or something similar.

Quote:
The only thing you can do is call their engineering department and complain. If enough people complain, perhaps they'll increase the bandwidth allotted to the HD feed.
Good advice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ouch, so every broadcaster with more than one sub-channel is multicasting? I have yet to see one that doesn't have sub channels, so I thought that was normal.


Greedy bastards.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by preiter
Ouch, so every broadcaster with more than one sub-channel is multicasting? I have yet to see one that doesn't have sub channels, so I thought that was normal.


Greedy bastards.
It's always been about the money. When all the little cable channels switch over to HD, maybe then the networks will pay more attention to what they have been doing to us with their crappy bandwidth.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by preiter
Ouch, so every broadcaster with more than one sub-channel is multicasting? I have yet to see one that doesn't have sub channels, so I thought that was normal.


Greedy bastards.
I'm lucky all the local HD stations have no sub-channels except the PBS station, but they use 720p and one sub-channel doesn't noticeably hurt their HD channel. All the rest (CBS,NBC,ABC,WB,Fox) have one HD channel with no sub-channels.
 

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Hmm. So many variables. Several years back I even encountered MPEG-2 breakup because of design problems with an earlier cable box, Scientific Atlanta's 2000HD, built by piggybacking an HD module onto an earlier non-HD cable box. A new 3100HD corrected the 2000HD's overheating, image 'stuttering', and macroblock breakups. But the SA3100HD introduced a faint component 'fog' over images, spoiling contrast and diminishing fine detail as well as degrading the inky blacks my CRT-based RPTV is capable of. Then Tuesday I leased an add-on SA8000HD dual-tuner Digital Video Recorder cable box that banished fogged images, but of course brought its own problem: can't use S-video for 480i/p viewing without walking to the converter and changing it from HD to SD mode.


Those capturing images on film or video tape at 24 frames per second usually pan their cameras slowly to minimize the motion artifacts (not pixelation or so-called macroblocking) caused by this traditional capture rate. Image capture at 24 fps can still be worsened, introducing motion judder, when frames must be repeated with so-called 2:3 pulldown to produce the 60-field-per-second video rates needed by 480i and 1080i television. Images video taped or televised directly at 60i appear smoother than 24-fps because 60 images are captured each second. We see each 1/60-second field (half a frame), but the frame halves are also visually merged (1/60 + 1/60 = 2/60 = 1/30-second TV frame, or 30i).


When 1080/60i (1920X1080) is delivered with standard HD's MPEG-2 encoding, the digital bit rate used must be able to handle detail and motion within the programming. Over-the-air (OTA) HD can use up to 19.39 million bits per second (Mbps), although about 32 Mbps is broadcast. The 'extra' bits are duplicate OTA error-correction data used during MPEG-2 decoding. If a station is multicasting--putting one or more subchannels within its ~19-Mbps allocation--then there are fewer bits available for the main HD channel. The main channel benefits, fidelity wise, from using the full 17 Mbps available for the video payload part of ~19 Mbps. (An original HD video payload, before compression, is 1.2 Gbps ; giga or billion bps). Most often HD programming delivered to stations is less than 17 Mbps video payload, perhaps only 12 Mbps. MPEG-2 encoding can shrink the bit rate requirement by using repeat-frame flags that tell home decoders to generate 2:3 pulldown. But 1920X1080 programming is typically quite 'diluted' too: You're receiving signals with 1920X1080 samples/lines/pixels, but telecined movies copied from film typically have

only 800--1300 pixels maximum that can be resolved on each horizontal line. The 1920X1080 format can provide up to ~1700-pixel maximum resolvable detail -- unless oversampling and downconversion is employed.


Each of a 1080i signal's 120X68 DCT macroblocks has four 8X8 smaller blocks for luma (B&W) processing and two 8X8 blocks for color. If the bit rate available is too low for the amount of detail or the motion in certain DCT blocks, the video details are discarded by the MPEG-2 encoder. Images then appear softer, lacking fine resolvable detail. Some older encoders used by stations toss out more details because they're less efficient then newer designs. If motion is too great for an encoder/decoder chain, the DCT blocks degrade into large visible rectangles or create smaller artifacts. Because motion is fast with live sports, as well as resolvable detail potentially being at or close to the maximum, some stations switch off subchannels, permitting up to 17 Mbps for the main HD channel. But all this is a small sampling of variables influencing HD image quality. -- John
 

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I have two STB. Ocassionally I find that my MIT MDR-200 has no macroblocking when my Dish 6000 does. So it could be the transmitters encoder or it could be a STB decoder that can not handle it.


Rick R
 

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Speaking of sharing that bandwidth, I too am in the Bay Area, and have had HDTV since Dec 2001. I have noticed that over the past 3 years the quality of broadcasts has been getting better, and now the pixelation issues are mostly a thing of the past.


Back when PBS used their HDTV channel to broadcast weird programming (everyone remember the Azalea Trail documentory?) they always had pixelation while doing "busy" HDTV (football etc). Now they don't, and they only do the HD and one SD channel when the HD channel is operating (starts at 8pm). During the day/early evening they are broadcasting 4 SD channels.


WB has improved the bandwidth too, "Smallville" was horrible for pixelation/freezing, now is quite good. UPN used to show "Enterprise" in a window box (I guess the show was recorded in HD but the local station didn't broadcast in HD) but now it is true HD, and of respectable quality.


They are all getting better, that's for sure.


madkiwi
 
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