That's interesting. Is there still sibilance in pure direct mode? You don't happen to wear hearing aids do you?
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Plagued by annoying sibilance! Advice?
A few weeks ago I upgraded the front sound stage of my 7.1.2 system to the Emotiva T2+ towers, C2+ center and the new Basx 3 channel amp they recently released. It sounds amazing, blows away the monitor audio bronze and SVS ultra bookshelves and center I tried previously but there is one thing really bothering me. I notice a lot of sibilance in dialogue (hard SSSS sound) in like 90% of movies and TV as well as in some music. It’s noticeable both with streaming movies as well as blue rays. I noticed this too with the SVS ultras but it was only maybe 20% of content that it was noticeable on. It is very distracting to me when watching movies.
I am running the denon x3700h and have tried every setting as well as used the multiEQ app to try and adjust the curve of the center. Nothing made a significant difference. I also have treated the room acoustically as best as I can (carpeting, sound panels on walls, panels on sealing, soft furniture and pillows, curtains over windows). I really don’t want to return the speakers because they are the best I have tried yet and also are nearly impossibly to transport without a truck. I’m baffled because the reason I chose the Emotivas was because everyone said how smooth and non fatiguing they are. The weird part is they don’t even sound bright. They are very neutral and cause me 0 listening fatigue. They are far less bright and fatiguing then the SVS ultras so I don’t understand how there is sibilance. Both the SVS and Emotivas sound 100x better then the monitor audio bronze yet those cheap speakers had 0 sibilance yet the more high end ones do. I have no idea what to do.
I am running the denon x3700h and have tried every setting as well as used the multiEQ app to try and adjust the curve of the center. Nothing made a significant difference. I also have treated the room acoustically as best as I can (carpeting, sound panels on walls, panels on sealing, soft furniture and pillows, curtains over windows). I really don’t want to return the speakers because they are the best I have tried yet and also are nearly impossibly to transport without a truck. I’m baffled because the reason I chose the Emotivas was because everyone said how smooth and non fatiguing they are. The weird part is they don’t even sound bright. They are very neutral and cause me 0 listening fatigue. They are far less bright and fatiguing then the SVS ultras so I don’t understand how there is sibilance. Both the SVS and Emotivas sound 100x better then the monitor audio bronze yet those cheap speakers had 0 sibilance yet the more high end ones do. I have no idea what to do.
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The sibilance remains about the same weather in direct or not. I don’t have any hearing aids. I do have tinnitus and pretty sensitive hearing though do to damage from working concerts and events for years even though I’m only 26.That's interesting. Is there still sibilance in pure direct mode? You don't happen to wear hearing aids do you?
It could be a number of things. Your new speakers could be going through break-in. Running pink noise through the system for a full 24 hours at moderate volume might help (or just play music with a wide frequency range). Some need more time. Oftentimes high quality speakers will unveil the inherent poor quality of recordings. Then again, some peoples' hearing is more sensitive to sibilance. Here's a thread with some interesting comments on sibilance. I presume your hearing damage had been medically verified? If so, consult your audiologist for advice, too.The sibilance remains about the same weather in direct or not. I don’t have any hearing aids. I do have tinnitus and pretty sensitive hearing though do to damage from working concerts and events for years even though I’m only 26.
Can you post the measurements/settings from Audyssey, and have you tried limiting the filter since you have the app?A few weeks ago I upgraded the front sound stage of my 7.1.2 system to the Emotiva T2+ towers, C2+ center and the new Basx 3 channel amp they recently released. It sounds amazing, blows away the monitor audio bronze and SVS ultra bookshelves and center I tried previously but there is one thing really bothering me. I notice a lot of sibilance in dialogue (hard SSSS sound) in like 90% of movies and TV as well as in some music. It’s noticeable both with streaming movies as well as blue rays. I noticed this too with the SVS ultras but it was only maybe 20% of content that it was noticeable on. It is very distracting to me when watching movies.
I am running the denon x3700h and have tried every setting as well as used the multiEQ app to try and adjust the curve of the center. Nothing made a significant difference. I also have treated the room acoustically as best as I can (carpeting, sound panels on walls, panels on sealing, soft furniture and pillows, curtains over windows). I really don’t want to return the speakers because they are the best I have tried yet and also are nearly impossibly to transport without a truck. I’m baffled because the reason I chose the Emotivas was because everyone said how smooth and non fatiguing they are. The weird part is they don’t even sound bright. They are very neutral and cause me 0 listening fatigue. They are far less bright and fatiguing then the SVS ultras so I don’t understand how there is sibilance. Both the SVS and Emotivas sound 100x better then the monitor audio bronze yet those cheap speakers had 0 sibilance yet the more high end ones do. I have no idea what to do.
I have the T-Zero, C1, A3, and a 3600H. I think the Emotiva's flat frequency response reveals poor/low quality source material. I am also sensitive to sibilance, and I definitely notice it more when streaming content and less from lossless 4k Bluray or a high res music source. Most streaming is 192 kbps and compressed vs 10 or 15 Mbps from Bluray that is lossless.
Are you the only one that notices it? Can you have someone else verify if they hear it or not. That would hopefully eliminate one possibility.
Do you notice it a lot with your setup? It definitely depends a lot on the audio quality I’m noticing. Some movies are definitely way more sibilant then others. Also I noticed usually in scenes were the actors aren’t facing the camera or not close up there is almost no sibilance. It’s usually close up dialogue as well as when movies have a narrator it’s most noticeable.I have the T-Zero, C1, A3, and a 3600H. I think the Emotiva's flat frequency response reveals poor/low quality source material. I am also sensitive to sibilance, and I definitely notice it more when streaming content and less from lossless 4k Bluray or a high res music source. Most streaming is 192 kbps and compressed vs 10 or 15 Mbps from Bluray that is lossless.
Note the sibilance is limited to a certain frequency range. You might try EQing various
portions of that range to see if you can "cure" the issue.
This is a graph of the response. Note the peak at the 7K point. It's right in the sibilance range and could be the cause.
https://www.stereophile.com/images/419EmoT2fig3.jpg
The AMT tweeters will be more detailed compared to soft dome tweeters from my personal experience, becuase of your hearing situation and/or preference this could be why you find the speakers this way, I ahd the T1 before going to my now Chane 753 and I found the T1 to be more prominent in the lows and highs and missing that mid range punch and depth, my Chane 753 are more even from top to bottom.
This is only a guess of course, but I have heard of people going to a horn or ribbon or ribbon type tweeter system finding them harsh or grainy, most times because of the tweeters having more extension and detail.
This is only a guess of course, but I have heard of people going to a horn or ribbon or ribbon type tweeter system finding them harsh or grainy, most times because of the tweeters having more extension and detail.
Assuming the sibilance is due a more revealing sound system then it could be possibly due to the excessive dynamic range compression and EQ applied to audio material that is annoying.
For me certain audio mixing choices really make the audio content fatiguing and unpleasant. Mixes that do not overuse compression and hot EQ sound the best to me.
I used to have pretty excellent hearing until my older years but have had some hearing loss and tinnitus since I was young child. Even though my hearing is not as good as it was certain things and volume levels have always caused a lot of pain so I typically prefer lower volume levels and avoid poorly mixed tracks when I have the choice.
If others with reasonable hearing can also hear the sibilance then it maybe due the system revealing what was there the audio or maybe the setup.
Good luck.
For me certain audio mixing choices really make the audio content fatiguing and unpleasant. Mixes that do not overuse compression and hot EQ sound the best to me.
I used to have pretty excellent hearing until my older years but have had some hearing loss and tinnitus since I was young child. Even though my hearing is not as good as it was certain things and volume levels have always caused a lot of pain so I typically prefer lower volume levels and avoid poorly mixed tracks when I have the choice.
If others with reasonable hearing can also hear the sibilance then it maybe due the system revealing what was there the audio or maybe the setup.
Good luck.
Any tweeter run at a higher level will sound more "detailed", but it's not because of the material.The AMT tweeters will be more detailed compared to soft dome tweeters
This is why I sought out speakers that were not bright and had smooth, even treble. That really annoys me, too. To enjoy our systems we need to be able to listen as long as we want without getting listening fatigue. That saps the enjoyment right out of a system.Assuming the sibilance is due a more revealing sound system then it could be possibly due to the excessive dynamic range compression and EQ applied to audio material that is annoying.
For me certain audio mixing choices really make the audio content fatiguing and unpleasant. Mixes that do not overuse compression and hot EQ sound the best to me.
I used to have pretty excellent hearing until my older years but have had some hearing loss and tinnitus since I was young child. Even though my hearing is not as good as it was certain things and volume levels have always caused a lot of pain so I typically prefer lower volume levels and avoid poorly mixed tracks when I have the choice.
If others with reasonable hearing can also hear the sibilance then it maybe due the system revealing what was there the audio or maybe the setup.
Good luck.
It happened to my twice to get siblance at the crossover frequency between the midrange and the tweeter.
Best way to remove it is to use a parametric EQ that attenuates by -0.5 dB the frequency responsible for the siblance.
I did it on a Yamaha AVR and it worked well.
Best way to remove it is to use a parametric EQ that attenuates by -0.5 dB the frequency responsible for the siblance.
I did it on a Yamaha AVR and it worked well.
First things first,
Get your hearing tested as you might have a hearing problem that can be cured. Being 26, I would want to know what the specific issue is moving forward..cuz..life. Once that is done, you should know what frequency bands cause your hearing sensitivity so that can be adjusted with parametric EQ to taste.
A buddy of mine (much older) ambled over to my place and I let him at my line array system in the garage and he adjusted the EQ to taste--the sound he wanted and thought sounded good to him. Wow! My speakers never sounded so bad, they had a rising midrange, weak bass response and a screaming treble. Doing a sweep, his hearing was off by well over 10dB because--in a way, when you do it by ear it is basically a hearing test. I told him he needed to get a hearing test, he did and they found a few problems, fixed them and his hearing improved drastically. He had to swallow his golden eared pride but he did get hearing aids and that really improved his ability to hear everything. Yes, he was in a band for 10 years and played the lead guitar and...well, it was the 70's and he was 10 feet tall and bulletproof.
So there ya go, get a hearing test and find out ways to improve your hearing first. Identify the problem areas and use parametric EQ to assist your hearing abilities to improve sound quality. No worries, humans tend to start losing hearing acuity at 18 and by the age of 30 everything starts going downhill...mother nature tends to be that way. You might have noticed with older people that they really don't like deep bass response and that is because they lose the high frequency ability but not the deep bass as much as the bass then starts to mask the high frequencies. As the philosopher, Mick Jagger once said "What a drag it is getting old".
As far as off the shelf speakers that will fit your hearing profile--that won't happen unless purely by accident. Since you admittedly have hearing damage, it is best to get your hearing tuned up, identify the problem and use EQ to fit your exact hearing abilities. I, for one used to have my hearing tested every year for decades, part of my job as my eyesight, hearing, any communical diseases and overall health was critical for my profession (medical profession) Over the decades my hearing declined and the audiologist was keen on identifying the frequency bands, the rate of loss over time and everything else to prevent any workplace issues from creeping up. Vision, hearing loss, radiation exposure, immune system health, blood tests and the entire gammut of everything was studied because if you work in a hospital, you are the perfect lab rat!
Trying to find speakers that are imperfect for imperfect hearing abilities is just rolling the dice. For me, I much prefer to find out what issues I have and get them fixed the best I can before I get to using parametric EQ and attempt to tune the system to fit my personal preferences. In the next 10 years, they will be able to fix your hearing so might as well get your hearing on record now to assist the audiologists that will fix your hearing in the future more information.
Good luck and I hope the audiologist finds something that can relieve you of your hearing loss. Sometimes they find things that can be easily reversed and provide information to improve your quality of life.
Get your hearing tested as you might have a hearing problem that can be cured. Being 26, I would want to know what the specific issue is moving forward..cuz..life. Once that is done, you should know what frequency bands cause your hearing sensitivity so that can be adjusted with parametric EQ to taste.
A buddy of mine (much older) ambled over to my place and I let him at my line array system in the garage and he adjusted the EQ to taste--the sound he wanted and thought sounded good to him. Wow! My speakers never sounded so bad, they had a rising midrange, weak bass response and a screaming treble. Doing a sweep, his hearing was off by well over 10dB because--in a way, when you do it by ear it is basically a hearing test. I told him he needed to get a hearing test, he did and they found a few problems, fixed them and his hearing improved drastically. He had to swallow his golden eared pride but he did get hearing aids and that really improved his ability to hear everything. Yes, he was in a band for 10 years and played the lead guitar and...well, it was the 70's and he was 10 feet tall and bulletproof.
So there ya go, get a hearing test and find out ways to improve your hearing first. Identify the problem areas and use parametric EQ to assist your hearing abilities to improve sound quality. No worries, humans tend to start losing hearing acuity at 18 and by the age of 30 everything starts going downhill...mother nature tends to be that way. You might have noticed with older people that they really don't like deep bass response and that is because they lose the high frequency ability but not the deep bass as much as the bass then starts to mask the high frequencies. As the philosopher, Mick Jagger once said "What a drag it is getting old".
As far as off the shelf speakers that will fit your hearing profile--that won't happen unless purely by accident. Since you admittedly have hearing damage, it is best to get your hearing tuned up, identify the problem and use EQ to fit your exact hearing abilities. I, for one used to have my hearing tested every year for decades, part of my job as my eyesight, hearing, any communical diseases and overall health was critical for my profession (medical profession) Over the decades my hearing declined and the audiologist was keen on identifying the frequency bands, the rate of loss over time and everything else to prevent any workplace issues from creeping up. Vision, hearing loss, radiation exposure, immune system health, blood tests and the entire gammut of everything was studied because if you work in a hospital, you are the perfect lab rat!
Trying to find speakers that are imperfect for imperfect hearing abilities is just rolling the dice. For me, I much prefer to find out what issues I have and get them fixed the best I can before I get to using parametric EQ and attempt to tune the system to fit my personal preferences. In the next 10 years, they will be able to fix your hearing so might as well get your hearing on record now to assist the audiologists that will fix your hearing in the future more information.
Good luck and I hope the audiologist finds something that can relieve you of your hearing loss. Sometimes they find things that can be easily reversed and provide information to improve your quality of life.
Hearing LOSS is usually just that, a reduction in level at specific frequencies. I have seen lots of hearing test charts, some with big notches (-45 dB) at 4 kHz. Musicians often have a loss of many dB around 4 kHz where sibilance is an issue. So it seems strange to me that you would hear it more pronounced if you have a loss in that area. You need to get REW and a UMIK-1 or some way of measuring the response at your listening position to show if there is a peak in frequency response from your speakers and the interaction with the room. If your AVR is doing room correction above 300-500 Hz or so, it may be boosting something that is causing the problem.
Its a hearing loss at certain frequencies but you can also be extra sensitive to those parts because the hearing and brain is trying to compensate. So you can end up with a very narrow SPL at those frequencies “this is ok/good” window, lower and you cant hear it well, louder and its uncomfortable or even painful.Hearing LOSS is usually just that, a reduction in level at specific frequencies. I have seen lots of hearing test charts, some with big notches (-45 dB) at 4 kHz. Musicians often have a loss of many dB around 4 kHz where sibilance is an issue. So it seems strange to me that you would hear it more pronounced if you have a loss in that area. You need to get REW and a UMIK-1 or some way of measuring the response at your listening position to show if there is a peak in frequency response from your speakers and the interaction with the room. If your AVR is doing room correction above 300-500 Hz or so, it may be boosting something that is causing the problem.
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Did you try Cinema EQ on the Denon?
Try it with Dynamic EQ "off."
Try it with Dynamic EQ "off."
Hearing LOSS is usually just that, a reduction in level at specific frequencies. I have seen lots of hearing test charts, some with big notches (-45 dB) at 4 kHz. Musicians often have a loss of many dB around 4 kHz where sibilance is an issue. So it seems strange to me that you would hear it more pronounced if you have a loss in that area. You need to get REW and a UMIK-1 or some way of measuring the response at your listening position to show if there is a peak in frequency response from your speakers and the interaction with the room. If your AVR is doing room correction above 300-500 Hz or so, it may be boosting something that is causing the problem.
HyperacusisIts a hearing loss at certain frequencies but you can also be extra sensitive to those parts because the hearing and brain is trying to compensate. So you can end up with a very narrow SPL at those frequencies “this is ok/good” window, lower and you cant hear it well, louder and its uncomfortable or even painful.
Why isn’t anyone recommending some easier tests To try singling out potential hardware issues?
OP:
Is the simblance coming from both the towers and the center, or just the center (you mentioned music, but didnt’ know if you were listening in stereo)?
If all three speakers, have you tried taking the amp out of the equation by running the speakers off the Denon directly?
If just a particular speaker (let’s say the center, which I would suspect if watching shows/movies), have you tried connecting one of the towers to it to see if it’s occurring?
I’d try singling out if it’s potentially an amp issue, or potentially a specific speaker.
like the OP, all I’ve read about the emotiva‘s is how flat and neutral they are. I almost bought the c2+ myself, because I’m very sensitive to bright/harsh speakers.
So, I’d prolly be looking at equipment and singling all that out, before just assuming everything is ok with the equipment and thus needing to get my ears checked instead.
OP:
Is the simblance coming from both the towers and the center, or just the center (you mentioned music, but didnt’ know if you were listening in stereo)?
If all three speakers, have you tried taking the amp out of the equation by running the speakers off the Denon directly?
If just a particular speaker (let’s say the center, which I would suspect if watching shows/movies), have you tried connecting one of the towers to it to see if it’s occurring?
I’d try singling out if it’s potentially an amp issue, or potentially a specific speaker.
like the OP, all I’ve read about the emotiva‘s is how flat and neutral they are. I almost bought the c2+ myself, because I’m very sensitive to bright/harsh speakers.
So, I’d prolly be looking at equipment and singling all that out, before just assuming everything is ok with the equipment and thus needing to get my ears checked instead.
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