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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My wife and I are finishing up designing a new house which will feature a main floor theater/media room. I started a dedicated build thread. At the moment I plan to have a motorized screen that will drop down and a TV on an under-floor lift. It's only me and my wife about 99.9995% of the time, so I'm only going with two seats.

All that being said, I thought I'd better come here for speaker ideas. It'll probably be a year before we're in the new place, but I like to plan ahead, and maybe DIYSG will have some of their new kits by then. Below is the current plan. Thicker angle lines are Anthony Grimani's recommendations; thinner lines are Dolby's recommendations.



I should say that I’m looking for great dynamics and clarity. I also want effortless volume, though not necessarily ear-bleeding (I usually listen at around -12, but have been known to go louder). I will run multiple subs (thinking IB), so I don’t need real low extension in the other speakers. I can solder and do some wood working, but I’d prefer flat packs. Cutting circles is no problem, but I don’t have the tools or skills for the waveguides.

I'm not really concerned about budget at the moment. I'd rather see what the best options are, and then I'll remove any that are just too extravagant.

And now on to more detail...
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Let's start with L/C/Rs.

For background, I currently have three SEOS 12/DNA-360/TD12M speakers as my L/C/Rs behind an AT screen in my basement theater. They've been great, but I don't plan to use an AT screen in the new place (I'll be sitting too close), and I'd like to be able to drop the viewable area of the new screen to 18-20" above the floor, so they'll be too tall. Those thoughts got me going down some rabbit holes for LCRs, each with their own pluses and minuses:

1) 3x horizontal "center" speakers under the screen
+ Can all be positioned at the correct recommended horizontal angles to the listener
+ Timbre matching across the front
+ Puts tweeters/CDs at same height across the front
+ Can be placed at 1/6 and 5/6 width positions to cancel that room mode
- Probably need 3-ways to stay away from possible lobing (fewer options)
- "Better" center speakers may be too wide to place three across the front

2) 1x horizontal "center" speaker under the screen and 2x tower speakers (or bookshelves on stands) to the sides
+ May give more/better options for L/R speakers
- Probably still want a 3-way for the center
- Tweeters/CDs at different heights (but with certain speaker combos, probably close enough)
- Will likely place L/R outside recommended angles
- Will place L/R quite close to the side walls
- Less likely to have timbre-matching speakers

3) 3x "bookshelf" speakers under the screen
+ Can all be positioned at the correct recommended horizontal angles to the listener
+ Wouldn't necessarily need 3-ways (more options)
+ Timbre matching across the front
+ Puts tweeters/CDs at same height across the front
+ Can be placed at 1/6 and 5/6 width positions to cancel that room mode
- More difficult to find good speakers 18" or shorter (fewer options)
- May look “odd” across the front of the room

And I understand that with all three options the dialog will not be at the optimal height.

I’ve looked at everything currently on DIYSG’s site (and a few they no longer sell). They have so many great options; I just don’t know what would work best for my use. For instance:

Cobalts – I love that I could use matching speakers across the whole room (including Atmos). Though not as efficient as other options, the MTMs are probably efficient enough for my smaller space. And great pricing. The thing holding me up is the horizontal MTM, but should I be that concerned? I could go for the TM in the center (or all three under the screen), but I worry that at 92dB it wouldn’t be “enough.”

1099s – 3-way center: check. Seems to be a great option, but are they too big for the room?

88 Specials – Dimensions would work well to have them all under the screen. But how do they sound compared to the other options?

Heck, at this point I’m even entertaining the idea of Volts or Vortexes (assuming I could make the latter fit).

I know – “TLDR.” I obviously need some help.
 

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@trancemitr I do not have a dedicated theater at this time, but once finished I will be getting either the cobalt 8, htm8 or ht8. Everything I have read so far says they are excellent small theater speakers and good bang for the buck.



Best case, the LCR are large speakers(large woofer to cover lfe frequency) vertical placement and they are all the same speaker. The htm12, Fusion 15, 1099/1299 etc. come to mind. Since you sit pretty close I would suggest you look at the cobalt 8, ht/htm8 or ht10 from diysg. The Cobalts 92db efficiency is good, a mid-priced receiver should run those to deafening levels without issue. If you like to play it loud all day get a receiver with pre-outs and an external amp



I only have room for small surrounds so if you can fit the cobalt, volt or ht/htm8 then go with it





Good luck!
 

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Let's start with L/C/Rs.

For background, I currently have three SEOS 12/DNA-360/TD12M speakers as my L/C/Rs behind an AT screen in my basement theater. They've been great, but I don't plan to use an AT screen in the new place (I'll be sitting too close), and I'd like to be able to drop the viewable area of the new screen to 18-20" above the floor, so they'll be too tall. Those thoughts got me going down some rabbit holes for LCRs, each with their own pluses and minuses:

1) 3x horizontal "center" speakers under the screen
+ Can all be positioned at the correct recommended horizontal angles to the listener
+ Timbre matching across the front
+ Puts tweeters/CDs at same height across the front
+ Can be placed at 1/6 and 5/6 width positions to cancel that room mode
- Probably need 3-ways to stay away from possible lobing (fewer options)
- "Better" center speakers may be too wide to place three across the front

2) 1x horizontal "center" speaker under the screen and 2x tower speakers (or bookshelves on stands) to the sides
+ May give more/better options for L/R speakers
- Probably still want a 3-way for the center
- Tweeters/CDs at different heights (but with certain speaker combos, probably close enough)
- Will likely place L/R outside recommended angles
- Will place L/R quite close to the side walls
- Less likely to have timbre-matching speakers

3) 3x "bookshelf" speakers under the screen
+ Can all be positioned at the correct recommended horizontal angles to the listener
+ Wouldn't necessarily need 3-ways (more options)
+ Timbre matching across the front
+ Puts tweeters/CDs at same height across the front
+ Can be placed at 1/6 and 5/6 width positions to cancel that room mode
- More difficult to find good speakers 18" or shorter (fewer options)
- May look “odd” across the front of the room

And I understand that with all three options the dialog will not be at the optimal height.

I’ve looked at everything currently on DIYSG’s site (and a few they no longer sell). They have so many great options; I just don’t know what would work best for my use. For instance:

Cobalts – I love that I could use matching speakers across the whole room (including Atmos). Though not as efficient as other options, the MTMs are probably efficient enough for my smaller space. And great pricing. The thing holding me up is the horizontal MTM, but should I be that concerned? I could go for the TM in the center (or all three under the screen), but I worry that at 92dB it wouldn’t be “enough.”

1099s – 3-way center: check. Seems to be a great option, but are they too big for the room?

88 Specials – Dimensions would work well to have them all under the screen. But how do they sound compared to the other options?

Heck, at this point I’m even entertaining the idea of Volts or Vortexes (assuming I could make the latter fit).

I know – “TLDR.” I obviously need some help.


Why not just use an AT screen that allows a close viewing distance, such as:

Seymour AV UF
Screen Excellence EN4K
Screen Excellence Neo
DreamScreen V6
DreamScreen V7
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Why not just use an AT screen that allows a close viewing distance, such as:

Seymour AV UF
Screen Excellence EN4K
Screen Excellence Neo
DreamScreen V6
DreamScreen V7
I think something got messed up with the pic. I think I fixed that, which should help explain things.

With the screen hanging 2" off the wall, that has me sitting roughly 105" from the screen, and the projector lens roughly 13'-4" from the screen.

Pushing the screen far enough from the wall to put speakers behind would have me sitting about 8' away. Isn't that really too close for most AT screens? It also changes the throw distance and necessitates a smaller screen (at least to fill it - I'm basing this off of a Stewart Cima BC). I suppose that wouldn't be too big of a deal if I got a custom-sized screen that was almost as big as I had planned. The other thing worth noting, however, is that we plan for a big picture window behind the screen. I obviously couldn't mount a speaker there. If I put it on a stand it would interfere with the TV lift and the window my wife wants there.

Ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
[MENTION=7897887]Best case, the LCR are large speakers(large woofer to cover lfe frequency) vertical placement and they are all the same speaker. The htm12, Fusion 15, 1099/1299 etc. come to mind. Since you sit pretty close I would suggest you look at the cobalt 8, ht/htm8 or ht10 from diysg. The Cobalts 92db efficiency is good, a mid-priced receiver should run those to deafening levels without issue. If you like to play it loud all day get a receiver with pre-outs and an external amp.
Yeah, like you, I just won't have the room for those larger speakers, at least on the screen wall. The largest/tallest vertical 2-way I could probably do is the HT-10.

I was actually thinking about the Cobalts for quite a while. I'd love to see someone's impressions of the Cobalt vs. some of the compression driver speakers. Oddly, as of this week, they're no longer listed on DIYSG. We'll have to see what that means in the long run.

Possibly going another direction, the 88 Specials (which I've read great reviews about) are now on closeout. These would fit perfectly as LCR. My one concern is how well the other surround options would blend with these vs. using something like an HT or HTM for LCR and surround. I think Fusion-8s would have been the natural pairing a few years ago, but they're no longer available.
 

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I think something got messed up with the pic. I think I fixed that, which should help explain things.

With the screen hanging 2" off the wall, that has me sitting roughly 105" from the screen, and the projector lens roughly 13'-4" from the screen.

Pushing the screen far enough from the wall to put speakers behind would have me sitting about 8' away. Isn't that really too close for most AT screens? It also changes the throw distance and necessitates a smaller screen (at least to fill it - I'm basing this off of a Stewart Cima BC). I suppose that wouldn't be too big of a deal if I got a custom-sized screen that was almost as big as I had planned. The other thing worth noting, however, is that we plan for a big picture window behind the screen. I obviously couldn't mount a speaker there. If I put it on a stand it would interfere with the TV lift and the window my wife wants there.

Ideas?
The AT screens I listed work well for 8' viewing distance. You will not see the weave. If you have a window there, you would need a shade. If you go with a drop down electric, you will still need a shade over the window.
 

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greetings . . .

not HTM 12's- Fusion 15's set to small - it's the right thing to do
not sure of how important it is but the xo of the 15's and 88 are like 900 and 950- seems synergistic -YMMV wrt REQ, Audy 32XT , the room , treatments, and so forth

I also have 88's as SS in a 14ft wide room, 1 row of seating similar to yours.
88's weigh about 50-55 lbs.
wall mounting with full motion mounts and specifics available upon request
the 9" depth is an awesome asset and your room may be a candidate, budget and WAF notwithstanding
there are short throw mounts that allow better aiming than just a bis a$$ french cleat
on the full motion mounts I can swing them another 20-ish" toward the front and give them a different inward angle for better "blend' with the LCR, if looking for a "better" 5.1
The magic here is thew 15" SEOS horn and IMHO all the superb physics and cranial gymnastics by the "crew" that produced this.
they can check a lot of boxes wrt "performance"
In my man cave the HTM6's can usually sound as HUGE and clear as other upmix
and I can do 5.5.4 in 10-ish by
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The AT screens I listed work well for 8' viewing distance. You will not see the weave. If you have a window there, you would need a shade. If you go with a drop down electric, you will still need a shade over the window.
Mike, I didn't know so many AT screens are usable at that short distance. I drew up an AT screen with DIYSG's current reference go-to speaker, the HTM-12. That pic is below.



Tilting the speakers toward the listener means pushing the screen 19" from the wall, giving a 11'-10" throw. A 90" wide screen at this seating distance gives a roughly 54 degree viewing angle, which is great. That smaller screen at that throw also means decent fL even with the .8 gain screen. So all of that is actually pretty good. I'd definitely need a custom screen since it would require something like a 4' drop, but that should be do-able (though more costly, I'm sure).

But I've still got the window to deal with. I planned on window shades either way, so that's not a problem. But I'd still have to stand or mount the center speaker in front of the window, and with the smaller screen it means placing the left and right speakers inside the window frame, as well. The other problem I see is that I wouldn't be able to use the center speaker when watching the TV.

I may have to mock up some cardboard speakers to see what they look like in front of a similarly sized picture window we have in our current house. We can see what my wife says about that...

I've kind of gotten off topic from speakers, but oh well.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
greetings . . .

not HTM 12's- Fusion 15's set to small - it's the right thing to do
not sure of how important it is but the xo of the 15's and 88 are like 900 and 950- seems synergistic -YMMV wrt REQ, Audy 32XT , the room , treatments, and so forth

I also have 88's as SS in a 14ft wide room, 1 row of seating similar to yours.
88's weigh about 50-55 lbs.
wall mounting with full motion mounts and specifics available upon request
the 9" depth is an awesome asset and your room may be a candidate, budget and WAF notwithstanding
there are short throw mounts that allow better aiming than just a bis a$$ french cleat
on the full motion mounts I can swing them another 20-ish" toward the front and give them a different inward angle for better "blend' with the LCR, if looking for a "better" 5.1
The magic here is thew 15" SEOS horn and IMHO all the superb physics and cranial gymnastics by the "crew" that produced this.
they can check a lot of boxes wrt "performance"
In my man cave the HTM6's can usually sound as HUGE and clear as other upmix
and I can do 5.5.4 in 10-ish by
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Okay, the 88s are sadly out. No more flat packs. :( I was kind of getting excited about how crazy that would be in my room.

Now I just have to tell myself I have plenty of time before I actually need speakers and to put that time toward the room design aspects... Let's see how far I get with that.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I knew that wouldn't last. After looking at the enclosures, I'm pretty sure I can build the boxes for the 88 Specials without too much hassle.

I asked this question of asarose in a PM, but I figured I should ask the broader audience as well. I have one concern that has kept me from purchasing so far. With two seats and the room only 12' wide, I figure that will put each side speaker about 5' from a listener. Is that too close for the 88s? Will the CD and woofers have had time to blend into one coherent sound by that distance? I believe this would be more of a problem with a larger woofer, but I'm not sure with this arrangement.
 

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Dude

sent you a PM
 

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Discussion Starter #15
After a little more reading and some encouragement from asarose, I picked up nine of the last ten 88 Specials Erich had on hand.

I know that's really overkill, but everyone says to go with the biggest design that works for your room. Well, that's the biggest that'll fit under my screen. And yet they'll work great behind a screen if I decide to go that route since they're so shallow. The other thing (size-wise) is that they're not too big to put on the wall, especially if I use full-motion mounts. I can't wait to hear how enveloping nine of these will be in a room that small. :D

Since the theater I eventually put these in won't be ready for a year, that should give me plenty of time to actually build them before needing them. I'll be sure to put together a thread for that.

Now to figure out what Atmos height speakers to get. Volt 8s, 10s?
 

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think of building at least 2 ,
the stereo that fills in for the real thing will impress you.
@Erich H: that's some customer service, even while moving . . .PROPS
 
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