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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm in need of a TV to replace my 46" RPTV that just died. The room is very bright so I have always ruled out plasma in the past. It's a great room with a wall of windows that face directly east and the windows extend into the kitchen area behind the great room. All the windows have been tinted but no blinds or curtains (to preserve the view).


My problem with the RPTV (Sony WT46 CRT) has always been the reflections and the washed out picture during the day. Any ScFi or dark material was unwatchable. For this reason I was leaning heavily toward one of the new LED based LCD's but I'm really concerned about the off axis viewing since my seat is off center.


I want the bright "looking out a window" look. Are there any plasmas that are bright enough for this but won't look like a mirror? With the RPTV reflections have always been a problem but I've always assumed a plasma or LCD would be bright enough to power through them.


My budget is around $3k and I'm looking for something around 52" -55". Time is very short and I'm looking to purchase somethin this weekend. Any suggestions?
 

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What direction does your screen face?


Panny has Anti-reflective/Anti-Glare models which are fairly effective and 54". I'm heading out to my local BB right now to check out sets once again. My eye is on the 54v10 but unfortunately they are usually not on display. The 50" version is though.
 

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Pioneer is the king of plasmas, and it would seem to be in your budget. There are conflicting views here on how well they perform in a bright space. Some of the detractors may be spreading FUD, since that seems to be a growing trend here, but my Sammy plasma is plenty bright and very viewable in a room with a large bay on the east and a large window on the north and south sides of the room, no treatments during the day.


Reflection may be an issue , but the Pioneer has a less reflective screen than any of the other brands, if you search you will find pictures of a members setup with lots of windows and his Pioneer looks fine. If I recall there was a lot of derision, as there always seems to be from the LCD crowd, but it would give you some idea of what to expect.


I will verify the LCD off angel issue. I have a Sammy 40B650 and it is unviewable off axis side to side and up and down. In the recent shoot out I think the angle is about 30 degrees before the picture on an LCD is just a mess, not a very large sweet spot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The TV will be on the north wall and the windows are on the side wall (east side). I'm heading out today to look at some again. So far if it's LCD it will most likely be the LG LH90.
 

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Pioneer is THE best by far out of all plasmas in all conditions I have tested.
Just make sure to see that the model you want has the better filter because some models don't perform as well under light conditions and the picture fades. The 500M and Elites don't seem to have much problem in those areas. I can't speak for other Pioneer models however, you should check it out just in case to make sure.
 

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IMO, there is no perfect solution for you. LCDs do have poorer off-angle viewing, but all plasmas will have a problem with a lot of ambient light, especially direct sunlight. Can't you get room darkening blinds or shades?
 

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As much as I LOVE my new Panny 54V10, I have to admit, the glare of the screen is easily my biggest disappointment. Actually, I should say, it's my ONLY disappointment - Otherwise, the TV is sheer perfection IMO, but the glare sucks. I am still happy that I purchased it, and believe that I am still far better off than I would be with a LCD picture quality wise. Just wish there were an easier or better way to minimize the glare other than installing curtains over the top of my blinds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GScott /forum/post/16965697


I'm in need of a TV to replace my 46" RPTV that just died. The room is very bright so I have always ruled out plasma in the past. It's a great room with a wall of windows that face directly east and the windows extend into the kitchen area behind the great room. All the windows have been tinted but no blinds or curtains (to preserve the view).


My problem with the RPTV (Sony WT46 CRT) has always been the reflections and the washed out picture during the day. Any ScFi or dark material was unwatchable. For this reason I was leaning heavily toward one of the new LED based LCD's but I'm really concerned about the off axis viewing since my seat is off center.


I want the bright "looking out a window" look. Are there any plasmas that are bright enough for this but won't look like a mirror? With the RPTV reflections have always been a problem but I've always assumed a plasma or LCD would be bright enough to power through them.


My budget is around $3k and I'm looking for something around 52" -55". Time is very short and I'm looking to purchase somethin this weekend. Any suggestions?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumottle /forum/post/16966877


As much as I LOVE my new Panny 54V10, I have to admit, the glare of the screen is easily my biggest disappointment. Actually, I should say, it's my ONLY disappointment - Otherwise, the TV is sheer perfection IMO, but the glare sucks. I am still happy that I purchased it, and believe that I am still far better off than I would be with a LCD picture quality wise. Just wish there were an easier or better way to minimize the glare other than installing curtains over the top of my blinds.

I know people tend to justify their purchases, but how in the world can you be happy with a TV that degrades the picture with reflections?


The only purpose of a TV is to provide you with an image generated by the set, not one forced on you by the ambient light in the room.


With the pq being so close between plasma and LCD, I have a hard time seeing why people jump through hoops to get a given technology when it does not fit their viewing needs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I spent many hours today viewing TV's. I did notice a slight off-axis change on the LG LCD when I viewed it from my approximate position. Barely noticeable but from what I've read will be worse at home. I was on my way out thinking that would be the one when I stumbled onto an end Samsung display. The TV was the 50" 850 series plasma. The picture looked incredible. The only thing I noticed was some digital noise but I was watching from about 4 feet away. According to Samsung's website the 850 has an antiglare coating on the screen and it seemed noticeable to me. It wasn't the mirror the other plasmas at BB were.


I'm not familiar with Samsung plasmas. Is the new 850 series good? It was very cool looking and about as thin as the Samsung LED sets. It's on sale through today at what seemed to be a pretty good price (well under $2k).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GScott /forum/post/16965697


I'm in need of a TV to replace my 46" RPTV that just died. The room is very bright so I have always ruled out plasma in the past. It's a great room with a wall of windows that face directly east and the windows extend into the kitchen area behind the great room. All the windows have been tinted but no blinds or curtains (to preserve the view).


My problem with the RPTV (Sony WT46 CRT) has always been the reflections and the washed out picture during the day. Any ScFi or dark material was unwatchable. For this reason I was leaning heavily toward one of the new LED based LCD's but I'm really concerned about the off axis viewing since my seat is off center.


I want the bright "looking out a window" look. Are there any plasmas that are bright enough for this but won't look like a mirror? With the RPTV reflections have always been a problem but I've always assumed a plasma or LCD would be bright enough to power through them.


My budget is around $3k and I'm looking for something around 52" -55". Time is very short and I'm looking to purchase somethin this weekend. Any suggestions?

Check out the B series of Samsung plasmas for 2009..I recently bought a 63" PN63B550 and it sits in a family room with a lot of high windows plus lots of light from a nearby foyer window. The picture on my Samsung is very bright and the natural light from all the windows never washes out the picture. You can nab a 58"Samsung for well under $3000
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu /forum/post/16966984


With the pq being so close between plasma and LCD, I have a hard time seeing why people jump through hoops to get a given technology when it does not fit their viewing needs.

That's the problem, in my opinion the technologies are not close at all. I can buy curtains to fix my daytime viewing issues, but I cannot "unsee" all of the deficiencies with the LCD sets I've viewed.


Honestly, Plasma doesn't reflect any more light than my old CRT did, it's just that I was expecting it to. I can't tell you why, it makes no sense, but I wasn't expecting the same amount of glare even though both screens are made of glass which of course will reflect light. I'm just giving on honest opinion to the question posed by the OP.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by quantumottle /forum/post/16967526


That's the problem, in my opinion the technologies are not close at all. I can buy curtains to fix my daytime viewing issues, but I cannot "unsee" all of the deficiencies with the LCD sets I've viewed.


Honestly, Plasma doesn't reflect any more light than my old CRT did, it's just that I was expecting it to. I can't tell you why, it makes no sense, but I wasn't expecting the same amount of glare even though both screens are made of glass which of course will reflect light. I'm just giving on honest opinion to the question posed by the OP.

I think the problem is that plasma screens are much bigger than crts were. Thus, the same reflective properties over a much larger footprint. Bad news.


As long as you're willing to jump through the hoops to make it work, all should be fine.


Your eyes are the best judge of what is acceptable pq to you.
 

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If you have a $3k budget you should definitely be looking at the Pioneer 600M. As long as you have a cable box and external audio available, this is the best deal you'll find.


You can have it calibrated to unlock the ISF Day mode, which works pretty well in brightly lit rooms. (can be calibrated up to 60ftl I believe)


I've also seen the Pioneer 6020 at a certain blue/yellow brick and mortar for under $3k as well.


And I'll throw this out there as well, but as a dark horse candidate you could also look at the LG 55LH90 LED, which is matte screen. You could get that for well under $3k.
 

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GScott, let me know what you end up getting.


I have the same dilemma. I was just at BB again, and the 58" 860 was right next to the Panny V10. After mucking with the controls I got it to the point where both looked very nice. The only thing was the 860 noise from the fans on the back where pretty loud and the front and back were hot enough to fry an egg. I realize the tvs are on for 12hours a day, but the Panny was much cooler and no noise. Not trying to start a flame war, just noting my experiences today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I went with the Samsung 50" 850. It was a tough call between it and the LG LED set but in the end the LG wasn't worth the extra $$$ to me especially with the potential issues (motion, off axis, etc...) I also wasn't a fan of the matte screen. Great for reflections but seemed to washout the blacks.


Picked up the TV today and all I can say is WOW. The picture uncalibrated looks awesome. I can't wait to put a few hours on it and get it calibrated. I didn't notice any fan noise but it does put off some heat. Nothing I'm concerned about.


As far as reflections they are there but I have to look for them. With my old RPTV you couldn't get around them. By the time I got it setup today the sun was at it's peak and the room was very bright. One of the skylights was even reflecting on the upper portion of the screen and it wasn't distracting at all. My wife even turned to "The Great Escape" or something and the movies was very dark but easily watchable. On my old set I would have been looking at a reflection of myself instead of the movie. This set does very well in a bright room. Even with the contrast down to 70 and the cell brightness at 5. I'm very happy with my purchase and glad I decided to go plasma instead of the new LED based LCD's.


I'll try to get some pics up of the room so people can see how much light comes into this room.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu /forum/post/16966984


snip


With the pq being so close between plasma and LCD, I have a hard time seeing why people jump through hoops to get a given technology when it does not fit their viewing needs.

have to respectfully disagree with you on this one; to me the *moving* picture quality between lcd and plasma is strikingly different, and i don't really care for the "soap opera" style of lcd...
 

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Congrats GScott! That is awesome, and thanks for the follow up. Definitely take some pics, would like to see your setup.


As for the heat, I just posted in the 850/860 thread about the amount of heat this set gives off. I very much noticed it at BB. I don't have AC out here in Colorado so I don't need a heater during the summer, its hot enough
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GScott /forum/post/16967045


I'm not familiar with Samsung plasmas. Is the new 850 series good? It was very cool looking and about as thin as the Samsung LED sets. It's on sale through today at what seemed to be a pretty good price (well under $2k).

FWIW, here's Cnet's review, http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...-33490381.html


I would probably spring for 58 inch model though? I have a 50 inch plasma and a 52 inch LCD and I think the 58 would be just the right size. Not huge, but better than 50.


Mark
 

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I went through the same process last year that you did. Old CRT bright room and reflections or glare off the CRT. I choose a plasma and what I found while there are some reflections it is so much less than the CRT it replaced they mostly disappear. Unlike some I do not build a room or house around a TV. And for those who are wondering the set was a 111fd.

In my opinion anyone replacing a CRT with an LCD or plasma in a bright room you will be happy with whatever choice you make, when compared to the CRT.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GScott /forum/post/16967045


I spent many hours today viewing TV's. I did notice a slight off-axis change on the LG LCD when I viewed it from my approximate position. Barely noticeable but from what I've read will be worse at home. I was on my way out thinking that would be the one when I stumbled onto an end Samsung display. The TV was the 50" 850 series plasma. The picture looked incredible. The only thing I noticed was some digital noise but I was watching from about 4 feet away. According to Samsung's website the 850 has an antiglare coating on the screen and it seemed noticeable to me. It wasn't the mirror the other plasmas at BB were.


I'm not familiar with Samsung plasmas. Is the new 850 series good? It was very cool looking and about as thin as the Samsung LED sets. It's on sale through today at what seemed to be a pretty good price (well under $2k).

I think you would love the 850/860 Samsung I certainly love mine.

You can't go wrong with Panasonic either IE the V10 series...I do think the Samsung would perform better in a bright room though.
 
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