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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We are at the forefront (relatively speaking) of this technology, there are many people jumping into the plasma realm. I'm starting this thread to try to pull together the basic steps for the 'search of the Holy Plasma Grail'. (sorry ericbee)


There are lots of accessories to spend money on, to go along with our plasma's. But not everyone has much money left after the intial purchase - so I perceive that there are probably logical steps of upgrades and plumbing that would take a new owner to a certain level of refinement as the budget allows. This is not intended to start fights over - this vs. that. But moreover pull together some kind of consensus - so one could read through and decide that the real cost of plasma ownership is $$$. In other words, $$$ will take me to "Level 5" for example.


Being said, I see claims about the improvements made by higher end 'plumbing' - cables - connectors - power cords, etc. Some of these assertions sound like they cure problems that other devices claim to fix (but-for-even more money). Does it make sense to buy and/or build the plumbing before jumping into $3k to $5k processors, etc.


Example - RP56 seems like a good bang for the buck - with upgradability via mods.


Obviously at some point - staying in the digital domain by modifying devices to bypass A/D D/A conversions vs waiting for more technolgy around the corner etc.


Hope this flys!

Regards,

Bruce
 

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-I will say that the plasma model you purchase must fit into your budget. But keep in mind its NOT “like buying a computerâ€. 50†Plasma technology is currently far beyond the broadcast signals (or recorded technologies) you can view. My FUJITSU 5002 is capable of displaying resolutions that will be available in the next few years. It is far from becoming “obsolete†next year.


I have seen the hi end scalers in action and was not impressed. When you decide on a Plasma model, it should have video processing electronics that would make a external VP unnecessary.


I will be purchasing accessories in the next couple of months. I do need cables and a good switch. These items are really secondary. You can always add these items later.


Displays will continue to improve. Prices will continue to drop. This ratio has become reasonable to any video enthusiast.


That is why I recently made my Plasma purchase. The WOW factor is silly. The bottom line is “Plasma has the Best picture†Period!.


If you don’t have the $cash$ for a plasma. Start saving NOW.



reboot
 

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The biggest bang for the buck or WOW factor is moving up to a plasma like the Panny 42 from a CRT or RPTV


I agree you should not have to spend $5K for a processor to make a $12K top of the line 50" display look better or run in native mode- but these further the state of the art


reboot is right- get into a good plasma- the accessories are less important


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Guys - thanks for the replies - so far


Reboot -


You are one of the select few that TOOK the opportunity to go see the latest offerings at Cedia 2001. What an ideal viewing opportunity that must have been - side by side - calibrated comparisons. It's to bad that most of us are frustrated by local sales displays.


Obviously the 'Not becoming obsolete' factor is important, I assume the DVI input weighed in too. Which leads to your statement of acquiring accessories, cables et. al. Since a processor is not high on your list, then what else is and why?


Mark -


Where are your secondary $$$ going?


Cineramax-


I'm not sure if you are being facetious or what. But with your level of experience and credentials - What would you suggest to go along with a plasma purchase @ various levels of budget. Generically speaking.


Thanks - Bruce
 

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Brucer-- my point was that with the latest/best plasmas you should not have to spend big bucks on the accessories to get a gorgeous picture- not that I have not done so!


I have various sources fed to a Vigatec GVC-1280/SDI including an HTPC with ATI 8500 DVI/ Dscaler which I am just hooking up


I can feed the Pro1000 dot for dot/1125p and DVI-



But I also have a Panny 42PWD3 in the bedroom hooked to an HD-100 and the picture is excellent: no accessories required!
 

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Mark,


I saw the Panny 42" with a straight interlaced signal and it was superb. I have the new 50" pioneer and I'm not getting anywhere near that PQ with my RP91 signal (480p or 480i). Newer DVD's look good, but a lot of older ones look pretty rough.


Should I be getting a clean, clear picture with the straight DVD signal? I've figured that the Panny did better because it is 852X480 so 480p requires little scaling and "fits" perfectly, whereas the pioneer has to scale to 1280X768.


I've pretty well decided to go with the new Fara NR since they now have the pio rate available (I watch a fair amount of video-based material), so the point is probably moot. Still, I've been trying to find out if anyone has been getting excellence from their pio 503/Pro1000's without the processors, scalers, etc.


Thanks,


Greg
 

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this is very subjective stuff- IMHO:


given comparable displays, a 42 will always look better than a 50


that said- looking at the Pro1000-


I have the DVI input hooked up to an HTPC running Toy Story dot by dot 1280x768 and the picture is amazing- this is a straight DVI link not going thru Vig- this to me is the reference standard best PQ I have ever seen


my Sony HD-100 , and Escient Power Play clearly benefit from the Vig, and it gives me the ability to change resolutions (eg I can set Vig to dot by dot but sometimes cannot get full screen pic- I can change to 1080/1125p to fill the screen


The Vig also provides switching which is essential to me- I started out looking for just a switcher


so to answer your question- yes I can get excellent PQ from Pro1000 depending on source material- a processor can noticeably improve some sources
 

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Dear Bruce,


I have been for the longest time allergic to plasma images.


My recent trip to cedia chnged all that...


Mind you I went to cedia looking for a 61" incher I could make money on, what happened to me was nothing short of a revelation.


My entire Business model was turned on it's head as for the first time I saw a 50" image that looked like the $65,000 Asaka Shibasoku monitors with which the entire Japanese HDTV program was referenced with.


The plasma was the Fujitsu 5002. Why because is the self contained Holly Grail for my market's most practical and desirable viewing spaces' conditions.


My recommended viewing conditions are mostly for waterfront condominiums down here in Florida, either Media Rooms or INVISYSTEMS in living rooms.


For a Living Room INVISYSTEM you have Controlled lighting, cool furniture, real art, plus a good view. I think that it also coincides with some of the conditions of the the west coast.


I have beeen always been opposed to the anti social aspect of audiophiles inmersing themselves into a dark room. Personally I thiink the prolongued exposure to sitting among empty chairs in a Dark home Theater is a major cause of Manic Depression. If you know an audiophile, you know wherei am coming from.:)



While I have done plenty of Regular Home Theaters some in the 300K range, where you are required to dim the lights, I have to agree with some of the Sharpest Customers (Like Pat Riley and Dan Marino) that prefer a Media Room setting with a killer picture and awesome sound that is impervious to a smart and elegant lighting scheme and decor.


I think that anyone, Special Guest or not, that says that you have to have a dark room for a good image is an idiot.


Why only the Fujitsu 5002? I don't know, but it is the bechmark, the MESSIAH for a brave new world.


I just had a conversation with a German Billionaire Otto Beisheim , who was my very first rabid Videophile customer who forced me, thru insults to my picture quality, to call Yves Faroudja when all Faroudja did was Broadcast stuff. Herr Beisheim's "TOO MANY LINES" was the catalist that brought high quality video processing into the home. This was 12 years ago.


So I call him, "How are you? how are you? Herr Beisheim I went to a convention in Indianapolis where I saw all the plasmas. I think I found the Plasma for you".


"What Size?"


"50"


"50? There are 60" right now"


"There are 61" Herr Beisheim, but... pause, NICHT KLAAR."


"Nicht klaar eh? "


"That's right, You are a big TRINITRON fan correct? "


"This looks like a Giant TRINITRON."


"I come see...."


So as you see I could have sold a Marantz 61". It would have been more profit, as I am a videophile, I cannot.


There is no other plasma for me. larger or smaller.


Now what Mark Rubin has done is the ultimate tweak, and I think in a Home Theater setting his setup would blow me away.


However what I have always said about projection systems probably holds true in the case of the Fujitsu 50". You can always calibrate a reality recreation system (high ambient light capable system) to look like film. But very seldom can you recalibrate a system designed for a dark room to look good in a Living Room setting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Cineramax (Peter)-


Yes, Sir! I do know where you are coming from...

---"Manic Depression" ....that's a good one, had to pick myself up off the floor.


You generally are very efficient with your words, I appreciate you taking the extra time in your post. I almost hate to ask, but would you mind sharing your thoughts on the values of higher end 'plumbing', be it power or other, especially for longer runs.


Thanks again, Bruce
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg099


I've pretty well decided to go with the new Fara NR since they now have the pio rate available (I watch a fair amount of video-based material), so the point is probably moot.
Greg:


Could you clarify which new Faroudja NR are you talking about -- I jsut purchased one last week for my Pio 503 -- on the display at bootup it says "16x9" --- Ericbee has been very articulate that the only processor he has found to output NR for the pio is the new Leeza?


Michael
 

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Michael:


i wouldn't take any s* from F and I would demand that they take back the "16x9" (which is 1280x720) and give you your native rate, now available. otherwise, the f is a great product.
 

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Quote:
"That's right, You are a big TRINITRON fan correct? "


"This looks like a Giant TRINITRON."


"I come see...."
Hysterical, and yet those same thoughts were somewhere in the back of my little head. Great stuff Peter!


Kei Clark

Digital Connection
 

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Thanks for the encouragemetn Jim -- I plan to call Faroudja on Monday and see if I can't get the 1280x768


Michael
 

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Michael,


So how did it go with Faroudja? Were you able to get the 1280X768? If so, can you provide your thoughts/review of its performance? You have the 50" Pioneer plasma, correct?


I am still waffling between the HTPC, the Faroudja NR 1280X768, or saving for a while to buy the LEEZA. I'm really interested in video-based performance, since my Directv signal is almost unwatchable.


Cheers,


Greg
 

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try to find a way to buy one with a return policy; the only way to be sure it does what you want is to try it at home. there are too may points of view to accept any one.
 

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I am working with Faroudja and the dealer I bought this the NRS from to get a new unit - with the correct native resolution of 1280x768 for my Pio 503.


The way I expect this to come out is that either I will get a new unit or the one I have will be sent back to the factory to be changed to the new resolution.


However knowing what I know now -- and if my budget wasn't already blown putting my whole system togehter I would get the Leeza


Hopefully in another week to 10 days I have the correct NRS for th Pio503 and I can let you know the differences I see.


By the way I also have DirecTV and the Faroudja makes a very big difference - depending on the channel and orginal material I get some very nice pictures both in 4x3 format and Letterbox



Michael M
 

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Brucer,


Take note of the comments by Reboot, Kei, and Cineramax. These have also been voiced by PatThickey, myself, and most notably Pete Putman-widely recognized as the most thorough and professional reviewer of plasmas in the industry.


Note our commonly shared perception that the leading scaler platforms in existence, with price points into five figures mind you, do in no way improve upon the scaling electronics built into the Fujitsu 50.


Nobody has yet commented on the Fujitsu 4242 (Nick, feel free to chime in anytime), but I suspect that similar miracles are likely to be in evidence despite the use of the ALIS 1024x512 system.


Note that none of the Fujitsu 50 owners have invested a twit into external scaling devices. Nor do they indulge themselves in the $$$ pursuit of visual alchemy in the futile hope of correcting the sins of the built in scalers sported by the competition.


After the panel itself all you really need are input devices. Almost unbelievably, a high quality DVD 480i player, even one of such ancient vintage as the Sony 7000, will acquit itself quite nicely thank you directly inputted into the Fujitsu.


Unlike virtually all other contemporaries, the Fujitsu will not further worsen the picture quality arising from dubious sources like DBS and cable.


MY recommendation is to spend any leftover $$ (and if you have been seriously considering the alternatives you will have a lot of leftover $$) on as many HD sources as possible.


HDNet from DirecTV, PBS from satellite or local affiliate, HBO and Showtime from DISH, Canadian sourced DBS, whatever.


Quality video cabling is inexpensive. High quality mechanical component switching is dirt cheap.


One cannot turn lead into gold nor water into wine.

Nor can Faroujda turn DBS compressed drivel or even the best DVD into HD.

Not for $3000, not even for $30,000.


Good luck,

Tmitchmd

(288 and counting...)
 

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Maybe the 50 is a freak of engineering.


Maybe other units need more pixels, and maybe others are vastly improved by the external processors. I am sure they are.


Regarding what we did raising the question mark, it was right, although both sides could have perhaps beneffited from a fresh read of :"How to win friends and influence people".


Certainly the way we expressed our conviction, rightfully so, appeared to undermine some of our colleagues hard work in other areas, by association. That I regret.


Nonetheless, regarding your POSTS, it's not the quantity but the quality that counts, :).
 
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