AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,634 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Which, in your opinion, offers better picture quality for DVD viewing and why?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
All things being equal, direct view. Better color and better blacks.


But, there is no such thing as a 60" direct view that is 4" deep and can be hung on a wall. Size matters (larger picture area is good, smaller footprint is good).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,352 Posts
"All things being equal, direct view. Better color and better blacks. "


All things aren't equal, if'n ya ask me. Better blacks...okay, to a degree. Better color? No way. I've compared many of the _best_ CRTs to the _best_ Plasmas, and I've yet to see a CRT produce an *overall* better image.


Just yesterday I was directly comparing HD images on the Loewe Aconda (often rated best CRT you can buy) vs the Panasonic HD plasmas. As good as the Loewe was, the image never reached the realism of the plasmas with the HD image. Everything about the Panasonic plasma image looked more real: color, sharpness, smoothness etc.


HD on Loewe at it's best = excellent TV image. HD on Plasma at it's best = looking through a window at real life.



Rich H.


BTW, note that Stereophile Guide To Home Theater has rated the Fuji 50" plasma as a "best product," stating they have not seen it's equal in PQ for displays of any type, anywhere around it's size.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,166 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by R Harkness


Just yesterday I was directly comparing HD images on the Loewe Aconda (often rated best CRT you can buy) vs the Panasonic HD plasmas. As good as the Loewe was, the image never reached the realism of the plasmas with the HD image. Everything about the Panasonic plasma image looked more real: color, sharpness, smoothness etc.


HD on Loewe at it's best = excellent TV image. HD on Plasma at it's best = looking through a window at real life.
Rich, how about a DVD image? I don't watch TV, HD or otherwise. I hear a lot of raves about HD on plasma, and from what I've seen in stores, HD on plasma looks great. But HD constitutes 0% of what I watch. How about DVDs? If you view a demanding (lots of dark scenes) DVD on a good CRT vs a good (Panny?) plasma - does the plasma get its ass kicked? Honestly.


w
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,352 Posts
wojtek


I bought a plasma based on their superlative performance with DVDs! I don't watch much TV, and there is little HD content that really interests me,

but I'm a major movie nut.


I feel that, on the majority of scenes you'll encounter in a DVD movie, the picture is decidedly more involving from most of the good plasma screens, vs a CRT. But if you do watch a lot of movies that take place at night or have many dark scenes, then you'll want to look carefully at the plasma's performance in that area. I love horror and sci-fi movies, so my display had to render quality black. That's why I went with the Panasonic plasma. It was the first plasma I'd encountered that offered deep, satisfying black levels. I'm not sure I would have taken the plasma leap if I couldn't get these blacks. These days the black levels on most of the good plasmas - Panasonic/Pioneer/NEC/Fujitsu/Hitachi, are quite good.


I had a very good Panasonic 27" CRT, and had kept my eye on the various Home Theater display technologies. Mostly, I was disappointed by displays that were bigger (i.e. RPTV), but not really "better" on all counts - e.g there were still some areas that were better in my CRT picture.


But now there isn't a thing I miss from my CRT. My Panasonic Plasma blows away my CRT in every count and, as I've written, I like the picture better than any CRT I've encountered.


Everybody who sees a DVD on the Panny, dark scenes or no, is completely blown away. Not one person has failed to comment that it's the most three-dimensional image they've seen. Everyone says they've never seen movies look so alive and real, and they'd all kick their CRT outta the house in a second if they could get a plasma.


Obviously I agree. Best electronics purchase I've ever made.


Rich H.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33,553 Posts
I couldn't agree with Rich more. Pluses for CRTs, blacks. Period. Everything else, plasmas, period. That's the way I see it anyway. I've got a 34" directview HDTV and a 50" Fujitsu plasma. No comparison whatsoever, the plasma wins hands down. Prior to that I had a 64" HD RPTV with 9" guns. The plasma STILL wins.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,352 Posts
Ken, let me second your seconding of my sentiments (or would that be "third" the original sentiment...or....anyway.....)


With the exception of the current limitations of size, plasmas seem to have it all.


CRTs do not have the size, perfect flatness and geometry, and perfect focus to reach that "looking through a window" level of realism. They always look like "TV."


RPTVs drive me nuts with their uneven illumination. I've seen some truly excellent images on RPTVs, but the hot-spotting is ever-present to some degree, and the images are not as precise or realistically bright as a good plasma.


LCDs...that slow response time and blurring of action....yuck. The uneven illumination is a deal-breaker for me, so until they fix that...


Front Projection displays can of course look fabulous and enveloping. In blowing up the image, FPs can also display details you'd never be aware of on smaller monitors. BUT...all projected images look like just that: projected images. Theater-like, yes. But a theater-like image has been around forever, in the theaters, so there's nothing really "new" in the FP experience (exept, perhaps, in the super-high-end).


The Plasmas are the only technology I've seen that actually advances toward a sense of true realism. The perfect flatness, high definition and even illumination of a plasma goes a long way in taking away the "false" cues that plague other display technologies. The life-like brightness and color rendition give images a richness and density - a "palpability" - that I don't find from other technologies (except certain LCD screens with certain HD shots).


I'd seen truly great examples of every type of display (attended several CES, and many other HT shows in several cities). But until I saw certain HD shots on a great plasma, I'd never suspected that a video display could so closely approach what it's like to view real objects.


Ain't no CRT that's done that for me. Ever.


Rich H.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,500 Posts
I agree with everything that's been said. One more thing to consider, that wasn't mentioned...


The 16:9 aspect is a MUST as far as I am concerned for DVD viewing. Ever more rare are 4:3 DVDs. Plus, a year ago I wished everything was made in 4:3, but I've since come to the light. Now I realize how much better it is to have the movie in its original aspect ratio. You really get a much better feel for the movie; it is more involving, and you are seeing what the director intended you see.


So if you get a 4:3 CRT, and you are watching a 16:9 aspect DVD, then you would need a 54.5" TV to produce the same size image that a 50" plasma is producing. Obviously this is not even a possibility. And with 16:9 CRT you are stuck at a ridiculously small 34". Ick. The problem gets even worse with 2.35 material. According to my calcs, even the monstrous (in terms of physical size) 40" CRT will only give you a 16:9 aspect picture of the same size as a 37" plasma!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,634 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the input guys!


I will seriously consider a Plasma now. However, how do the Panasonic Plasmas compare to the Fujitsu Plasmas? Secondly, can I get a nice 42" 16:9 Plasma for around $4000-$4500?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,634 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Okay, I just phoned my Panasonic dealer and he has the Panasonic TH-42PW5. Is this a good Plasma? It is a European/UK model. I can't get American models here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
360 Posts
OK. I am back online to defend my original 'All things being equal, direct view. Better color and better blacks.'


Note: all comments are based on high-quality DVD feeds - I do not yet have an HD feed. And, as far as I am concerned, even the best RPTVs blow. The picture has a limited viewing angle, and I do not want my TV to take over my room.


It sounds as if there is general agreement that blacks are better on CRTs. Blacks are very important to overall picture quality, enhancing colors, and making for a better movie-watching experience. We have two 32" Sony XBR TVs. The pictures on both are great. The pictures on the Sony WEGAs and Loewes I've seen are even better. In my opinion (we all have one) better colors than any plasma I've seen. Maybe it is just the fact that the blacks are so much better that it gives me the perception of improved colors. In any event, I like the quality CRT picture more than the quality plasma picture.


But, not all things are equal. If someone could make a 50 or 60 inch 16:9 CRT of the same quality of the high-end Sonys or Loewe CRTs, at the same price point as plasmas, in the 80 to 100 lb range and 4 inches deep, plasma sales would plummet. This 'dream' CRT is just not happening. For all of the reasons that Felgar discussed a few posts up, CRTs cannot deliver the same kind of awesome moving-watching experience that good large plasmas do. The 40" Sony WEGA (a non 16:9 box) is as big as it gets, and it is a monster (in terms of size and weight). The best 34†16:9 CRT in the world cannot provide the experience we have come to love in the big-screen plasmas. Size is a side of the 'movie experience' equation that CRTs just cannot compete on.


I love my plasma, but if someone were producing that non-existent CRT I described in the previous paragraph I would certainly give it a look.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,500 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Kain
Okay, I just phoned my Panasonic dealer and he has the Panasonic TH-42PW5. Is this a good Plasma? It is a European/UK model. I can't get American models here.
I'm 95% sure that TV is the same as the US counterpart TH-PWD5UY... I have (and love) it's precursor which is basically the same thing but without 3:2 pulldown... It's resolution is 852x480 which is perfectly suited for watching DVDs, as it is basically DVD resolution. The TH-42PHD5 is a high-def model with 1024x768 resolution. A good number of people who have compared the two note that the lower res is a little better for DVD. But I couldn't find it on UK Panasonic anyway, so I'm not sure it's even available to you. At any rate, if DVD is your overwhelming concern, then I think the TH-42PW5 is the best TV for you. In the US, we have seen people get the TH-42PW5 for ~3700 USD, so you should be able to get it for under 5K USD equivalent.


Alternatives are the 43" Pioneer which has worse blacks but the 1024x768 resolution as well. Most people who end up with Pioneers buy the 50" mainly because it's a great value, and for them the blacks are worth the sacrifice to get such a reasonably priced 50".


The 42" Fujitsu is an Alis panel, which is not worth considering; clearly inferior to the Panny you have your eye on. The 50" Fujitsu's use the 50" Panny glass but some different electronic components (inputs, scalar, etc.) and are considerably more expensive than the 50" Panny. But many consider the 50" Fujitsu to be probably the best-looking (PQ wise) panel you can buy.


Conclusion: If you are looking for
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,172 Posts
The 42WD's lack of HDCP is irrelevant, too, even for HD broadcasts. As a
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,106 Posts
Is lower resolution really perfect for dvds?I found the panny sd42 showed more pixilation than the higher resolution of 1024x 768 from my six foot seating requirement thus Im going with the pioneer 43cmx.I didnt find a difference in the black level but maybe thats just me.If someone knows that dvd viewing will be compromised on higher resolution sets at 6 ft. please let me know before I buy. Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,634 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks for the input!


So, the Panasonic 852x480 is better for DVDs than the Panasonic 1024x768?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,500 Posts
That's what I was claiming, but Mattg3's opinion differs. I actually havn't compared them side-by-side, I was just reiterating what I've read here from other's who have.


Mattg3, when you say pixelation, are you refering to the "screen door" effect, or to an actual lack of detail when showing DVD? Some are sensitive to the screen door (seeing individual pixels) and thus prefer the high res model. Even though there are times when I can make out the pixels (from about 8') I'm not very annoyed by them. Most have claimed that the high res model seems somewhat soft and fuzzy compared to the SD model...


Looks like you'll have to do a search and dig up some of the past comments on this Kain; there have been lots...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,352 Posts
Mattg3,


Matt, I am wondering the same as Felgar.


I've done extensive plasma comparisons, and I now live with the Panasonic

42" SD-res (852x480) plasma. This plasma has the most rock-solid, smoothest, most artifact-free picture with DVDs that I've seen from any plasma, regardless of size or price. This was also evident to me when I was at the buying stage, comparing plasmas in stores.


Rich H.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top