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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
1st off I have read and read, but I am having some issues/concerns. Well recently, I have purchased a 46" Panasonic Plasma (TH46PZ85U) a few months ago. I finally bought a blu-ray player (DMPBD35K). After setting it all up and started to watch some BD's, I am definitely stoked about the picture quality. Now a went over a couple of buddies of mine:

One has a 52" Samsung LCD (LN52A650), the other a 52" Phillips LCD (52PFL7403D/F7). Both of these sets are almost new...

Now when we input a BD via a PS3, there is a noticable lag on the screen, with the Phillips it is almost present in every shot. People call it ghosting/artifact or whatever, but there is something definitely wrong with the picture compared to my Plasma screen. It is like watching a cartoon, the background is stationary and the objects moving about look 3d.


Is this present with every LCD display out there? Stationary objects look great, but when something starts to move, it just doesn't look right? I thought it was the way it suppose to look until I got my plasma... Any thoughts? I am kind of confused, I mean people that have LCD's that have never seen a Plasma actually know what they are missing? Someone help me out.
 

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It sounds like 120hz motion interpolation. Try turning that off on the LCDs. I don't know what it's called on the Phillips, but I think it's called "Auto Motion Plus" on the Samsung. I can't stand the way it looks and it's hard to believe that anyone can tolerate it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert /forum/post/15423094


It sounds like 120hz motion interpolation. Try turning that off on the LCDs. I don't know what it's called on the Phillips, but I think it's called "Auto Motion Plus" on the Samsung. I can't stand the way it looks and it's hard to believe that anyone can tolerate it.

That's exactly what it is. The effects are stomach churning to me but others barely notice it. With the processing off there may be more noticible jitter but that wierd smoothing goes away at least.


As far as "Do they know what they're missing?".. I think it's more of they don't care about what we think they are missing
My friend with the Sammy hates my Plasma. It's okay, I hate his LCD (well, not hate).. I just don't point out everything I find flawed with it like the motion issues and what I comprehend as poor handling of color gradiations. If all that was available was LCD tech right now I'd still have my CRT in the livingroom. But everyone has different priorities.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisherbert /forum/post/15423094


It sounds like 120hz motion interpolation. Try turning that off on the LCDs. I don't know what it's called on the Phillips, but I think it's called "Auto Motion Plus" on the Samsung. I can't stand the way it looks and it's hard to believe that anyone can tolerate it.

AMP set to low is a beautiful thing. It takes 1 night to get used to it but the result is a 3D picture that is unlike anything else. First time I saw it I hated it but now that I'm used to it I wouldn't switch back. The key is to keep it on the lowest setting
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So if you like your movie quality equivalent to Super Paper Mario on Wii, then an LCD would be the way to go? Is this more of a response time issue causing a slight lag in the picture making the edges of the object moving against the background have more depth? I will suggest turning off the 120Hz and see what that does.


Sorry, but watching on my buddies LCD after watching my Plasma made it very hard to watch.
 

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You don't turn off 120hz. That is the refresh rate and is a completely different beast than Motion Enhancers. Many people consistently group these two together and while they are usually written together by the manufacturer it really is two different things.
 

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I thought that the 120hz refresh rate can't be switched on or off? I might be wrong on those certain LCD's. Like uni_panther said its most likely Motion Enhancers.
 

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Quick question (for my friend, of course
).. he has a Sammy 120hz but when he hits the info button it always shows the broadcasts at 60Hz.. i assumed that the 120 only kicks in when needed depending on the movement on screen. Is there a different setting or is that assumption correct?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants /forum/post/15423678


AMP set to low is a beautiful thing. It takes 1 night to get used to it but the result is a 3D picture that is unlike anything else. First time I saw it I hated it but now that I'm used to it I wouldn't switch back. The key is to keep it on the lowest setting

Even at low that thing makes me feel seasick.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNova222 /forum/post/15426191


Quick question (for my friend, of course
).. he has a Sammy 120hz but when he hits the info button it always shows the broadcasts at 60Hz.. i assumed that the 120 only kicks in when needed depending on the movement on screen. Is there a different setting or is that assumption correct?

All video sources will be 60hz or 24hz. The TV makes up ("interpolates") the extra frames to bring it to 120hz.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiel'thalin /forum/post/15422866


1st off I have read and read, but I am having some issues/concerns. Well recently, I have purchased a 46" Panasonic Plasma (TH46PZ85U) a few months ago. I finally bought a blu-ray player (DMPBD35K). After setting it all up and started to watch some BD's, I am definitely stoked about the picture quality. Now a went over a couple of buddies of mine:

One has a 52" Samsung LCD (LN52A650), the other a 52" Phillips LCD (52PFL7403D/F7). Both of these sets are almost new...

Now when we input a BD via a PS3, there is a noticable lag on the screen, with the Phillips it is almost present in every shot. People call it ghosting/artifact or whatever, but there is something definitely wrong with the picture compared to my Plasma screen. It is like watching a cartoon, the background is stationary and the objects moving about look 3d.


Is this present with every LCD display out there? Stationary objects look great, but when something starts to move, it just doesn't look right? I thought it was the way it suppose to look until I got my plasma... Any thoughts? I am kind of confused, I mean people that have LCD's that have never seen a Plasma actually know what they are missing? Someone help me out.


This is from Interpolation.

Its LCD's method of trying to cover the bad motion performance.


Unfortunatly, it makes movies look artificial and crazy.


It also creates "clear vapors" that come off of things.


It also makes a high quality movie look like a cheap soap opera or home video.


None of this is natural and the movie is not intended to be viewed this way.


Plasma does not need these tricks and add-ons because motion performance is very good on a plasma compared to an LCD.
 

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Not trying to be splitting hairs but in reality the Motion Enhancers are there to try and eliminate judder. The higher refresh rate is to try and eliminate motion blurring. Yet the manufacturers like Sony name the process to eliminate judder Motionflow 120hz. All very confusing and I wish they would use better terminology. It is hard enough to understand it how it is.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNova222 /forum/post/15426191


Quick question (for my friend, of course
).. he has a Sammy 120hz but when he hits the info button it always shows the broadcasts at 60Hz.. i assumed that the 120 only kicks in when needed depending on the movement on screen. Is there a different setting or is that assumption correct?

Blu-Ray will give you 24hz, all your tv sources will give you 60hz. You won't ever see 120hz for an input. The 120 doesn't "kick in" it is always on. You can not disable this on a 120hz tv. You can disable and enable motion enhancing features such as AMP on the Sammy, MotionFlow on the Sony, so on and so on.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by uni_panther /forum/post/15427165


Not trying to be splitting hairs but in reality the Motion Enhancers are there to try and eliminate judder. The higher refresh rate is to try and eliminate motion blurring. Yet the manufacturers like Sony name the process to eliminate judder Motionflow 120hz. All very confusing and I wish they would use better terminology. It is hard enough to understand it how it is.

No, the motion enhancers are there to eliminate blurring. They may help with judder but that's really just a side effect.


Read up on "sample and hold" to see why motion interpolation can minimize the perception of blurring.
 

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While it can try to mask S&H, it then creates a new visual effect that to some is no better or even worse.

I have read that the LED lit 950 is supposed to further reduce or even eliminate S&H, but I haven't had the opportunity yet to demo one in a dim room.(just one with a poor signal in a bright room connected via component down the line)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S /forum/post/15427747


While it can try to mask S&H, it then creates a new visual effect that to some is no better or even worse.

I have read that the LED lit 950 is supposed to further reduce or even eliminate S&H, but I haven't had the opportunity yet to demo one in a dim room.(just one with a poor signal in a bright room connected via component down the line)

so true, setting the AMP on a Samsung to high on a cable broadcast is awwwwful. Keep that crap on low!
 

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The current firmware AMP Low is a great accomplishment cause you don't see the soap opera effect like 2/3 of the time. But you do see it 1/3 of the time, meaning it's still not natural. I use it for sports broadcasts, where you can't see it working, but for movies or TV shows, I still find it a bit distracting. And if the source is poor, like an SD film, you see a lot of artifacts even with Low. Turn it off though, and SD content is often blurry.


Fortunately, DVDs & BDs have been mostly blur free, and I can leave AMP off. If I had to use AMP for DVDs & Blu-Rays, I'd get rid of the LCD.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So why are the LCD's being pushed so much? The only problem I have with mine is a glare during the day, but when I want to sit down and watch a movie (usually at night), I can really enjoy the picture. A couple of friends where set on LCD until we decided to make this thread to see what where we where seeing on the different sets...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiel'thalin /forum/post/15434693


So why are the LCD's being pushed so much? The only problem I have with mine is a glare during the day, but when I want to sit down and watch a movie (usually at night), I can really enjoy the picture. A couple of friends where set on LCD until we decided to make this thread to see what where we where seeing on the different sets...

Lcd is being pushed for lots of reasons.


profit margins, a VERY large inventory of them, flat out saleman misinformation, and the list goes on and on.


I think the earlier plasmas and their burn-in issues has a big impact also.


When salesmen are still telling customers that burn-in should be a concern, the average buyer who knows very little will go with LCD because he figures "Why take the chance"?


Another reason is because there are soooo many companys making cheap LCD's nowadays in countrys like mexico.

These LCD's are made of mostly plastic and low quality materials.


I was at BB the other day and I heard a lady ask a salesman what the difference between LCD and plasma was and the salesman told her that plasmas were only good for dark environments and if there is a window in the room, then LCD would be the better choice. Poor lady said "I have a window, so I guess I need an LCD".

He also told her that the LCD's were 120hz so they will be better for sports and motion than the plasmas.


Personally, I think that salesman pushing misinformation like this, the burn-in bull, and not informing customers that Plasma gives the better overall picture is the reason LCD is selling more.
 
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