[the_gecko]

Hi, first post, I'll apologise in advance for the amount of times this has probably been asked, I did have a look but I really need to aggregate your views and tailor them to my situation, really hope you can help me...


I have an absolute max budget of £500. I don't mind buying 'nearly new' from the auction site or whatever but would prefer new.


I want full HD, 25p, decent low light performance, external mic (if possible).


I'm not too fussed about which storage method it uses and can buy SD cards if needed.


I think I'm right in the 25p mode? I'm after the artsy indie film type effect

- I'm not a hipster I promise, I just like the output and would like the option of using it.


So far I've been looking at;


Canon Legria HF200 - Seen some nice videos but just doesn't seem to stand up next to Panasonic cameras


Pana SD90 - This seems a contender at the moment, the only thing that puts me off is 1MOS (should it?) and the fact that the SD600 isn't much more


Pana SD600 - Love what I've seen but bit miffed about no external mic input, I'm feeling that I'd like this option as I may well end up taking video creation up as a serious hobby (I come from DSLRs, which I use fairly seriously) How much will no input affect me? Will I wish I'd got one?


Pana SD800 - I've seen this new for £505 so it's a possible, and seems a logical choice over the [not much cheaper] SD600, but again, no mic input.


So am I heading in the right direction?


There are so many models it's making my head spin. I would really really really appreciate your help

 

[the_gecko]

The other one I've looked at is the legria hf m31 BTW

 

[Unlikely Suspect]

The Canon M31 is last year's model. This year's model, the M4xxx series is supposedly significantly better. I think I would go for the Panasonic SD90 over the M31.


I'm also leaning towards the Panasonic SD90 compared to the Canon M4xxx because of the wider angle lens and longer zoom, although the Canon's low light capabilities are supposedly stellar for a camera in this price range.


The Panasonic SD600 is an older model too, right?


The Panasonic SD800... Really, really tempting. But not as wide angle as the SD90, significantly shorter zoom, and I'm worried about no mic input, and claims that the fan is quite noisy.


So we are basically thinking along the same lines, although the ones I am considering are:


- Panasonic SD90: "Cheap" yet good video quality and surprisingly decent low light capabilities. Wide angle. One of the longer zooms.


- Panasonic SD800: The best quality in decent lighting due to 3xCMOS sensors. However, not as long zoom and not as wide angle as the SD90. Also a bit more expensive, and there's that fear of fan noise and lack of mic input.


- Canon M4xx series: Fairly cheap. Great in low light (even better than the SD800 despite the SD800 not being bad at all). Should be excellent in decent lighting as well. But not very wide angle lens, and very short zoom.


I think I have ruled out the Canon due to the lack of wider angle and a bit too short zoom, but that low light handling seems very tempting, and the price is good.


The SD90 seems a great overall package for a great price, but I won't get the absolute best video quality, neither in low light or decent lighting.


The SD800's strength is the video quality, and it's even good in low light. But the zoom and not as wide angle, as well as possible fan noise, gets me worried.

 

[bsprague]

Consider trying to shop for the Panasonic SDT750. Yes, it has the goofy 3D lens. Throw it away, sell it or play with it if you have a 3D TV. You can even peel the "3D" logo off the side of the camera if it embarrasses you!


After you ignore the 3D lens you get the 3 mos, external mic, eye piece, lower cost batteries, external charger, hdmi cord for HD TV, usb cord, multi purpose cord for any tv and an option for two lenses that widen the already wide lens.

 

[Unlikely Suspect]

Isn't the 750 rather expensive? Might as well get a 900 then...

 

[Paulo Teixeira]

The SDT750 is selling for $750 with the 3D lens included while the TM900 is selling for $850 without a 3D lens included. Still, the TM900 does have 32GB of internal memory. Personally, I'd go for the TM900 anyway.

 

[TheGizzard]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague /forum/post/20808276


Consider trying to shop for the Panasonic SDT750. Yes, it has the goofy 3D lens. Throw it away, sell it or play with it if you have a 3D TV. You can even peel the "3D" logo off the side of the camera if it embarrasses you!


After you ignore the 3D lens you get the 3 mos, external mic, eye piece, lower cost batteries, external charger, hdmi cord for HD TV, usb cord, multi purpose cord for any tv and an option for two lenses that widen the already wide lens.

Assuming the SD800 internals are the same as the TM900, aren't they both better than the 750? Isnt the 750 last years model?

 

[bsprague]



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGizzard /forum/post/20813326


Assuming the SD800 internals are the same as the TM900, aren't they both better than the 750? Isnt the 750 last years model?

Check the Panasonic comparison chart here: http://panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/line-up/ . Read the descriptions on Amazon. Skip over the 3D marketing mumbo-jumbo.


I'm new to video stuff and I don't know anybody at Panasonic. I did study everything I could find for a month before I spent my money. Other than that I don't know anything that I haven't read here on this fascinating forum.


I think Panasonic thought they saw a hot spot in the market coming for "everything 3D" and created a "kit" that used all the internals that were coming in the 900. (Remember the expensive 3D lens is an option for the 800 and 900.) The initial price for the 750 kit was $1500. I do have a 3D TV and it is fun for me and the granddaughters to make close up 3D of the fuzzy family dog. For everyone else, 3D is a dud. Even committed video geeks abhor it. And using the lens cripples a bunch of camcorder features - like zoom. Consequently the 750 kit is now a marketing problem that forces price reductions.


I have myself convinced, and nobody has shown me differently, that the 750 is functionally the same as the 900. I think it might have been a pre-release of the current series. The 3D marketing sticker even peels off easily! It has all the primary internals without internal memory and cheaper batteries. And, as I wrote earlier, it has an eyepiece, external mic and useful manual modes with a ring around the lens. The included cords (HDMI, DC power, Multi AV, USB) and the external charger make up some value that helps support a little higher price than the 800 with no eyepiece either.


I'm not sure, but don't you have to plug in the 800 and 900 to charge the newer, more expensive battery? Don't you have to buy an optional external charger? HDMI cord?


Regardless of the differences, I am consistently amazed at how crappy my filming skills are and how fantastic the clips look on my 55 inch Sony. But, I'm learning. My supposed to be bad at night camcorder took some great clips of an outdoor, in the dark, Vince Gill concert. And, spectacular fireworks on the 4th of July. And there is a favoirte clip of paragliders surrounded by true blue sky, descending in front of green trees, landing on their feet and parachute cords in focus on full zoom.


Bill

 

[Ungermann]



Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGizzard /forum/post/20813326


Assuming the SD800 internals are the same as the TM900, aren't they both better than the 750? Isnt the 750 last years model?

Pretty much the same. The LCD is slightly higher res, but still no match for Canon and Sony.

 

[Unlikely Suspect]

I hope Panasonic stops obsessing over 3D, realizes that no one gives a damn, and starts focusing solely on 2D excellence again. Not that the 3xCMOS cameras don't have great video quality, but maybe they could be even better in low light if Panasonic hadn't wasted precious resources on the 3D dud.

 

[Icyman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unlikely Suspect I hope Panasonic stops obsessing over 3D, realizes that no one gives a damn, and starts focusing solely on 2D excellence again. Not that the 3xCMOS cameras don't have great video quality, but maybe they could be even better in low light if Panasonic hadn't wasted precious resources on the 3D dud.

Well said!

 

[bsprague]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlikely Suspect /forum/post/20814263


I hope Panasonic stops obsessing over 3D, realizes that no one gives a damn.....

I do give a damn. A big one. It is a lot of fun! I have a 3D TV, four pair of glasses, 3D camcorder that works and DirecTV with a couple of 3D channels. My brother has been doing creative 3D stills for a couple of decades. No, it won't take over the video world, but it is a nice optional addition to it. Don't whine or be threatened until you've tried it! Extra features will be a part of electronic toys for now. Buttons on the remotes this year will quick link to Netflix and some won't give a damn for that either.


TVs are no longer single purpose displays. They are, and will be, multi-purpose computers that will do things for all sorts of people interested in a variety of menu choices.


The TV I bought last year didn't cost extra just for 3D. I was "top of the line" for picture quality so 3D was included, along with several other fun things. The glasses were "free" to close the deal on the TV. The camcorder was discounted because it was 3D and most, like you, think it is silly. I spent nothing extra and have fun with 3D...a lot of fun! I wish you could watch the 3D clips my granddaughter took of the fuzzy family dog. It is so entertaining I think you would adjust your opinion.

 

[Unlikely Suspect]

Well, most people don't care about 3D. I think it's pointless to spend a lot of time on something most people will not bother with.

 

[zBuff]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlikely Suspect /forum/post/20819718


Well, I don't care about 3D. I think it's pointless to spend a lot of time on something I will not bother with.

Fixed for you


Stop trying to force your opinion onto everyone else

 

[David Barteaux]

The low light on the TM90 is really not that good. I upgraded to the TM900 and the difference is amazing.

 

[Unlikely Suspect]



Quote:
Originally Posted by zBuff /forum/post/20823075


Fixed for you


Stop trying to force your opinion onto everyone else

I'm not. Just because most people don't care about 3D (which is a fact) doesn't mean that no one does. A small minority certainly loves 3D, but most people don't. Things like poor sales for the Nintendo 3DS, 3D movies taking a nose dive, etc. all show the same thing:


Most people don't want 3D.


This doesn't mean that anyone is forcing you to not like 3D.

 

[Ronomy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by David Barteaux /forum/post/20823813


The low light on the TM90 is really not that good. I upgraded to the TM900 and the difference is amazing.

Still better than my old posumer Sony DVCAM! SD camcorder from 12 years ago.

 

[Ungermann]



Quote:
Originally Posted by David Barteaux /forum/post/20823813


The low light on the TM90 is really not that good. I upgraded to the TM900 and the difference is amazing.

I did a test of the HDC-SD9 (1/6-inch 3CCD) and the HDC-SD600 (1/4-inch 3MOS) and the difference is huge, but! The difference is noticeable when gain is engaged. Without gain they look very similar. Which means that Panasonic heavily improved on noise reduction, but not so much on actual sensor performance. I need to redo the tests because I cannot believe the results myself.


Nevertheless, the "90" still looks very decent for a single-chipper.

 

[Mikcheck]

nice

 

[Ronomy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlikely Suspect /forum/post/20824006


I'm not. Just because most people don't care about 3D (which is a fact) doesn't mean that no one does. A small minority certainly loves 3D, but most people don't. Things like poor sales for the Nintendo 3DS, 3D movies taking a nose dive, etc. all show the same thing:


Most people don't want 3D.


This doesn't mean that anyone is forcing you to not like 3D.

I have to admit I felt the same about 3D but decided to get a 3D DLP projector and must say I am pretty impressed with 3D in my home theatre. I wouldn't bother with Panasonics 3D because its not HD anymore using the SBS mode. Plus you can't zoom.