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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone,


This is my first actual message here although i ocasionaly read what people write in this forum (especialy for informative reasons).

This time it's my turn to ask for guidance.


My problem is generated by speaker configuration. I intend to use 5.1 (or maybe 6.1-7.1) configuration for watching movies and stereo for music. The thing is i can't figure out where to position the speakers (surround config of course) given the fact that viewing position is far from an usual one. So i need help.... please!!

(Room plan picture attached)



Here are some facts/data:

* Viewing position for movies is on the L shaped couch

* I didn't buy a AV receiver & speakers YET, but i have a fairly good clue to what i want to buy
... hopefully this is a good thing because i can still change the plans.

* At this moment i intend to purchase a mid-range AV receiver (Onkyo609-809 or Pioneer 921-1121-2021 or Yamaha 671-A810 or Marantz 1602-5006), i have some $ flexibility here

* As for speakers i will start with a pair of front 3way floorstanding and a good center speaker. Surround speakers and subwoofer(optional) will be purchased acordingly. Type and make will be chosen only after i (finally) decide on the AV receiver.



It would be really great if you could help me with a proposition(x,y and if necesary z
) for speaker positioning and configuration.


Thanks a lot,

Razvan
 

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Discussion Starter #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazvanOltu /forum/post/20973695


* Viewing position for movies is on the L shaped couch

Razvan

I usually sit on the couch leaning on the backrest (see the darken L shaped area). Most often directly facing the TV.

I'd like to have a good sound effect no matter where i (or any guests) sit on the couch. Obviously the best position is the once facing directly the TV.


Thanks.
 

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Unfortunately where your "L" shaped couch is at compaired to where the TV is currently located is a surround sound nightmare. No matter where you put your surround speakers only one spot on the couch is going to benefit from each speaker.


I would may try 5.1 with 1 surround speaker over the dining table and the other one directly across from it on the other side wall.


If you want to try 7.1 place the surrounds where I stated and place the rears on the back wall.


The issue is that if your sitting on the couch against the wall whatever speaker is on the wall directly above you is not going to be heard from that spot.


I'm not a fan of in ceiling speakers but this situation may call for them.
 

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Yeah, kinda what I was thinking. Actually, I'd get a corner unit for the TV, and angle it more towards the couch, then spread the ceiling speakers out enough to get something resembling a sound field around the couch. Being on the wall and corner as it is, there's just no real good way to get behind it. Well, maybe inwalls behind the couch...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You pointed out exactly my problem... pardon, nightmare. This is why i started this topic.


If i put all surround speakers on the wall (close to ceiling) will they still perform good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru /forum/post/20973764


I would may try 5.1 with 1 surround speaker over the dining table and the other one directly across from it on the other side wall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru /forum/post/20973764


If you want to try 7.1 place the surrounds where I stated and place the rears on the back wall.

How 'bad' is the positioning of the surround speakers basicly in front of the viewer.

In 7.1 case the surround back would be in fact the surround over-the-head. So how do you think the sound experience would be... not so immersive, like backwards 3rd person view?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Actually this is what i had in mind initially.


In the 5.1 picture the speakers would be at ear height (aprox 1-1.5m from the ground).


In the 7.1 picture the surround back speakers would be placed on the wall very close to the ceiling. A pair of small speakers would be hardly visible because a sort of lighting soffit will be in place soon... so no worries about the estetics



I'm guessing that the AV receiver will be able to do a good compensation for an asymetrical setup like this.

 

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The surround right on your pic is way to far front I would actually place it about where your surround back right speaker is shown. But the the left surround should be directly across from it.


Also not sure why you have your front left speaker kicked out like that but try to keep your front three speakers on the same horizontal plane. Or kick out the right front to match the left and then at least those two will be on the same plane.


Also I highly recommend the Onkyo 809, I have the 808 and love it. However you never stated your budget. You can pick up the 809 for $600 refurbished so then I would spend at least twice that amount on your speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the quick reply.

I've modified the pictures to your suggestions. Is this what you had in mind?


Also, how much of a problem is the fact that normal surround speakers would be mounted high (near ceiling level)?



P.S. My budget is arround 1500Euro (maybe even up to 2000Euro if i get blown away by a certain device). A 809 would be arround 900-1000E. I'm looking exclusively for new stuff and i will be able to test all mentioned receivers with some of the 'in budget' speakers (for example: i like yamaha piano 777 5.1 system, but i guess i will have money only for EF777 5.0 and somewhere in the future a good SW).

 

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I suppose it goes without saying that if you can possibly switch the location of your coach (assuming it's not too long on the one side) and your dining room table, many of your problems go away. Moreover, you'd have more seating directly facing the TV.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well, couch is too damn big and it doesn't fit on the other side of the room. Soo i'm pretty much stuck with this furniture setup.



Let's suppose that those 2 last pictures represent a good placing configuration for the given room.

How large/powerfull should the surround (and surround back speakers) should be? Bookshelf size, small ht surround size? ...taking into consideration 3 aspects: room size is fairly small (4.5mx3.8m), front speakers will be large 3way floor standing, sr and sr back speakers will be placed high at ceiling level. Please take as a reference for front speakers the Yamaha NS-777.


Thanks a lot for you replies.
 

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Do you already have the yammy 777 speakers? I would be willing to bet much better speakers can be had for less.


Your surrounds don't necessarily have to be too powerful. I would recommend something other than monopole (direct radiating) speakers tho. Bi-poles/di-poles or even tri-poles would be a good choice. These types of speakers will give a more diffuse and spacious surround sound field and fill the area better.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I didn't buy anything yet. This is why i'm open to any suggestion. Please give as much feedback as you like. In you can, please suggest what sr speakers would be good to match the fronts.

I'm no brainer when it comes to speakers and thus i'm trying to get as much intel as possible (so i could narrow the options).


A good thing is that i'll be able to actually test most of under-1000Euro speaker sets before i buy them. I just can't ask to test all 50 of them
My 'audiophile ears' should ultimately decide ofc.



Regarding your comment about surround speakers for this room... let me see if i understood correctly: you say that it would be better to get speakers which don't direct sound very precisely, but instead have a wider spread. This would be good due to the positioning of the surround speakers and also due to the viewing position that covers a larger area?
 

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When you say 1000 Euro is that just for the 5 speakers? Or is that for the 5 speakers, 1 subwoofer and the receiver?


Yes I am recommending a less direct sound for the surrounds because of listening position with regard to speaker placement.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
My budget is arround 1500E. I want to buy a mid-range AV and a 5.0 speaker set. (choice list include Onkyo609-809 or Pioneer 921-1121-2021 or Yamaha 671-A810 or Marantz 1602-5006)

The thing is that i am impressed by av receivers at the 1000E mark, but i guess a 500E set of speakers to pair it with would be a non sense (cheap speakers over a good av is a bad choice). So as much as i want a good av i know i can't afford to pair it with a good set of speakers. I need to find a good ballance.

One other thing... princes in ro are sligthly higher than in uk or germany. So a 609 onkyo is priced arround 550E and a 809 at 1000E.


I'm a kind of guy that wants to do things properly so IF i get convinced to get a higher prices av i would eventually go for good speakers (buying them in steps: first the fronts, then the rest ofc).
 

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Ok this would be my vote for an AVR Onkyo 708 for $390 USD. http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html


I would look at Klipsch Reference speakers, Emotiva Reference speakers, BIC Acoustech speakers and so on. Reason for the mentioned speakers is that they have surrounds that are other than mono-poles and are very well thought of speakers.


As far as a sub, it is a must!!! Look at HSU, Outlaw Audio, SVS, Rhythmik, Even BIC Acoustech PL-200, or BIC F-12 if budget is tight.
 

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Just to let you know the Klipsch reference series speakers are said to lack in the bass department but deliver excellent mids and highs. With the RF52s only having 2 - 5.5" woofers they really won't have much bass. So a sub is a MUST, if you can't afford the sub right now, I highly suggest you skip the surround speakers for now and buy a sub instead. So for now just do 3.1. 3.1 will sound much better than 5.0.
 
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