[chinwan]

I hope someone here can help me. I know this might not be the best forum for this, but you guys here are the best at complicated audio setups.


My scenario is as follows:

I have 4 zones A - D. They are made up of overhead speakers connected via speaker wire.

I want to be able to do the following:

Via a microphone, I can toggle between which zones will be broadcast over. There will be two mic jacks, one in zone A and one in Zone B. So I want to sometimes broadcast only over:

1) Only Zone A

2) Zone B

3) Zone B and C

4) Zone D,B, and C (not really necessary)

5) Zone C

Next, I want a second input source (via line in or something like that) that will broadcast over zones B, C, D (but not zone A).

I also want it that I can have a different input (via a line in or something like that) that will broadcast over all four zones. (if this last one is not doable, then it is not the end of the world).


The three different input methods (Mic, line in, and line in) have to be connected at all times. It cant require swapping different plugs in the amp.

As far as using the microphone, I would need it that it can be toggled remotely (not by the amp itself, but somewhere else in the building - preferably by the mic jack and preferably analog - not some fancy digital panel) which zone to broadcast over. The jack by zone A can be set to only to broadcast over zone A. The only one that really needs toggles is the jack by zone B. It has to be able to broadcast over Zones B and C selectively. There also should preferably be a remote volume control by each of the two microphone jacks.


The only work that has been done so far is the wiring of the speakers and the mic jacks. All the wires come to one central closet.

What do I need?

What type of amp(s) can do this? The amp does not need to output theater quality sound as it wont really be used to output movies, mainly music and announcements.

Looking for input as I am a complete newbie with this.


Thank You

 

[Gizmologist]

What amps do you have? Do you want the aux input to duck when the mic(s) is activated by a push to talk configuration? You listed 3 inputs mic, line and line.

I assume then you want to select between 2 separate line in sources.


How do you select which source is used?


Do you want both mics to function simultaneously or for one to lock out the other?


Are you using a 70 volt multiple speaker arrangement? How many speakers in each zone?


There are a couple options so post the additional info and I can help yiou configure this.


Budget?

 

[tadcu]

Ah...you moved it from the other thread (which I was going to suggest) and got a helpful reply from Gizmologist while I was typing and locating web pages.


It appears you're describing a system with 4 output zones (think of "zone" as each of your areas: A, B, C & D) and with multiple input sources which can be distributed to almost any/all zones simultaneously. This kind of application usually uses commerical audio equipment (which is also capable of driving low-impedance speakers and 70V speakers). Correct speaker configuration isn't addressed in this reply.


There are a multitude of ways to do it. For some, look at the links at the bottom. I hope you'll want a solution straight-forward enough to operate that the individuals (you or designated personnel) who have to deal with it actually stand a chance of doing it correctly now AND in the future. Otherwise, I imagine there are lots of ways to piece something together.


You mentioned mic requirements are for "broadcast" and "announcements". I don't know for sure if you mean simple short "paging"...or if you mean "speech reinforcment" (sit down and listen to a speech presentation). Especially in the latter case, remember that a microphone system in an enclosed environment always has the risk of acoustic feedback. It's not a "for sure" thing and I'm not addressing a solution.


Check out the following web sites for equipment that could meet your needs. They will require installation of "control" cable (which you can't avoid if you want to do what you said) but they don't require digital panels. Note that I haven't indicated all the bits and accessories you may need. Or....ideally you could contact a local qualified commercial sound contractor (A/V integrator) who could do the whole thing; look for personnel with CTS certification.


Cloud Electronics (not to be confused with "the cloud") has the 46/50 4-zone commercial mixer-amp which you might use with their PM4 paging mic: http://www.cloudusa.com/~cloudusa/in...iewProduct/26#


Paso Sound's DMAB series commerical mixer-amps (stack 4 of them) would provide an easy-to-operate solution using their PRMS4 controllers with source selection, mixing and level control at remote locations. Wiring details would be specific and perhaps intricate but using it would be a breeze. http://www.pasosound.com/PDF/dmab/PF215.pdf


The TOA Electonics 900 series uses input modules offering lots of flexibility (you would need 4 mixer/amps). These have been a long-time specified standard in the commercial sound industry. http://www.toaelectronics.com/amp0001.asp


Cheers,

Tadcu (Bill e)

 

[Gizmologist]

Not knowing yet the details I asked about and anticipating a rather limited budget I was thinking more of a speaker line switching matrix with zone select PTT buttons on the mike but using a single 70 amplifier. That or an input signal switching matrix if all zones have a signal at all times.

 

[chinwan]

I'm new at this so I apologize if I leave out important details.


Here is what the system is for. It is a building with 6 rooms. Three of the rooms (zones, A, B, C). Each of those rooms will be used to give presentations/lectures. Zone D is the other rooms and hallways. The two line in sources are to be hooked up to per-recorded timed announcements. They need to be heard of Zone B, C, and D but not A. If possible I would like a cut off that the per-recorded announcements will not interrupt a mic that is in use in a particular zone.


First, I currently only have the speakers in place and the wires run. Each speaker has its own dedicated wire going back to the closet.


As far as selecting which source to use, I would prefer some sort of analog switch by the mic jack. Remember, the mic in zone A only needs to transmit to Zone A, but the Mic in Zone B needs to be able to broadcast to either zone B and C or only one of them. And I guess maybe if it makes things easier, I will have a third mic jack in zone C that will only broadcast to zone C. So the mic jack in zone B is the only one that has to be able to be able to select which zones to broadcast in.



As far as the two separate line sources are concerned, I would want it that hey are both connected at all times. They are both being used as two different pre-recorded announcemnts, and they wont be broadcasting at the same time. If have two linein sources like this is to hard, then I can get away with only one.


I do not know what type of speaker arrangement to have. Each one has its own dedicated run to the closet (unless that causes more problems). The amount of speakers in each zone is as follows:


Zone A: 6

Zone B: 4

Zone C: 2

Zone D: 12


As far as budget is concerned, the cheaper the better, but without sacrificing functionality. I do not need HD quality sounds or anything like that.


tadcu- I am looking through your suggestions, I just have to sort out which is the best in the scenario. Hopefully these additional details will help.


For the remote toggle switches which were mentioned, what type of wire do you run for them?


Thanks

 

[tadcu]

Hi chinwan,


Sounds similar to a normal meeting room situation with 3 rooms and a "pre-function" common area. It's good you are able to indicate pretty clearly your functional needs; you are conversant with a lot of terminology and bits involved. It seems you may have already had contact with the commercial A/V contracting industry - you mentioned you didn't want a fancy digital panel.


I didn't say actual toggle switches but each of the 3 suggestions does require "control" cabling. You could look into the Cloud details and determine their systems' requirements. The Paso solution requires a dedicated cat5 to each remote PRMS4 location. The TOA cabling really depends on what modules and configuration you want.


As Gizmologist touched on in his first reply, the systems should be 70V. More details and info can lead to a system design including the power required for each zone/amplifier (and perhaps a wiring diagram) but I'm going to have to let someone else (Gizmologist?) take over from here since the forum is a hobby and not the job

Best to both of you.

P.S. wow...24 speaker cables at the closet!

 

[Gizmologist]

First, are the cables already run from each speaker to the closet or is that the plan but as yet, not done?


If the cables have not been run, STOP HERE!


The best and most economical way to connect the speakers is to use speakers already equipped with 70 transformers. There is one transformer physically attached to every speaker. Usually these will be tapped for about 5 watts for paging, etc. Then, each group of speakers (zone) has a single cable run back to the amp/switching gear area. You do not need or want a home run for each speaker.


Is the mic in each zone for brief announcements only or for use in presentations etc?


Does the mic need to be hand held or setting on a table? There are several options so this is important.


Let me know what you have so far and what speakers you have or are looking at using.


To make this easier for you, you can PM me for my phone number and we can talk it out faster and easier.

 

[chinwan]

No wires have been run yet, it was planned for tomorrow.


How would you attach a single run for the entire zone? Also, zone D, has speakers spread out through out the building (3 rooms and hallway and outside) so it would be hard to have one single cable. The other 3 zones could be the same cable though.


The mic in each zone will be used for presentations.


I guess the mic can be sitting on the table, but originally we were thinking about be able to have it with a long cable or wireless so that someone could pace back and forth while speaking.



All we have so far is the rough plan that I presented earlier. Everything can still be changed (besides basic positioning of speakers)


PM sent.


Thanks

 

[Speedskater]

More on 70 Volt loudspeaker systems:

http://www.rane.com/note136.html

 

[Gizmologist]

I have Chinwan's floor plans and am laying out the wiring and control system as we speak.