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PLEASE save me from myself. Review my Klipsch config, going against Klipsch recommend

3472 Views 18 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  MRL, 
M
All,


I am about to pull the trigger on a new HT setup.

I've been reviewing this site and learning alot. Doing some listening...


This will be my first (I don't want to say "good" yet, so I will say "not

crappy") home theater setup.

Please advise, comment, recommend, or just rip it apart if you like.


INFO:

This is for Movies and Video games (which nowadays have very beautiful music in

them, not just explosions)

ROOM SIZE: 25 X 18? (but the tv/couches area will be regulated to about half the room)

BUDGET: around $800.00 (I am already going over)


EQUIPTMENT I ALREADY HAVE:

Note: I bought this a few years ago. If I don't have to replace this, I'd rather not

as it allows more $$ to be spent on the speakers,

but are any of these so poor they will ruin my listening experience??

1) Sony DE835 (100watts X 5) 5.1 receiver

1) Sub Woofer: Powered Cambridge Soundworks BASECUBE 10


READY TO PURCHASE: (recommended config)

2 Front : Klipsch Synergy B2 (Bookshelf ) $229.99 /pair

Center : Klipsch Synergy C2 $249.99

2 Surrounds : Klipsch Synergy S2 (very cool looking w/dual tweeters 90 degrees apart) $399.99/pair

TOTAL: $879.97



The above is what is recommended matching speakers on the klipsch site.. (note the matching #’s b2/c2/s2)

HOWEVER, something does not sit right with me.

Why are the rear speakers much more expensive than the fronts?

Typically the front and center are where most of your sound comes from, why would I spend the most money on the rears?

But again, this is coming from the website.


NOW here is what I think would be a good configuration: (upgrade the front, and downgrade the rears)

2 Front : Klipsch Synergy B3 (Bookshelf) $329.00 / pair (these sounded much better than the B2’s)

1 Center : Klipsch Synergy C2 $249.99

2 Surrounds : Klipsch Synergy S1 $279.99 / pair

TOTAL: $858.98


SO…. I am quite conflicted. My internal logic dictates the second configuration with cheaper surrounds, but something inside me is telling me I am being a fool for going against the manufacturer recommendations b2/c2/s2, where they have supposedly spent a lot of time designing these things to match each other.

I want my stuff to sound good and match, so the dialogue matches the music and I don’t have my current setup where I need to turn the volume way up when people are speaking.. then when some music comes in BOOM! It is way too loud..


And before anyone recommends going with the F series floor standing speakers, I have a WAF factor who I promised I would not get TOWERS that take up the whole room.


SO WHAT DO YOU THINK??


Please help and thanks for taking the time to read my long tale of anguish!

-Mike
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V
Quote:
2 Surrounds : Klipsch Synergy S1 $279.99 / pair
FYI

2 Surrounds: Klipsch Synergy only S99 / pair @ ubid

Check back often, SB2 is not on today but its dirt cheap too

Good luck :)
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A
Do you want the rear channel action to be clear and intense? Or diffuse and "background"?


If the former, your gut instinct is right on. If the latter, spend the extra money probably. I'm not a big dipole fan, especially for what I see to be lowered performance for higher pricing. I think there are also better speakers out there for that money, IMO. PSB, Paradigm, NHT, Energy, etc.
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sivadselim
forget their recommendations. don't get "surround-specific" speakers.




B3/C2/B2


B3/C3/B2 (or even B3/C3/B3) if you can swing it.




:)
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sivadselim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall
Do you want the rear channel action to be clear and intense? Or diffuse and "background"?


If the former, your gut instinct is right on. If the latter, spend the extra money probably.
both the surround speaker choices he presented are "diffusers"
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P
Agree with other posters, based on your statement of the system being used mostly for HT and games. If you will be getting into SACD and/or DVD-A, I'd probably recommend going with the better surrounds only because they will be called upon more often for distinct instrument placement.
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P
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim
both the surround speaker choices he presented are "diffusers"
What is meant by diffusers? What is a diffuser vs. a non-diffuser?
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P
means they disperse the sound rather than fire it directly at the listener
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A
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim
both the surround speaker choices he presented are "diffusers"
Oops! Okay, let me rephrase - dipole speakers aren't accurate to the signal anyway, so if you want to use them and you're on a budget, save the money, get better fronts.


However, to use dipoles properly, you need your couch to be 5' or so from the back wall. If not, just get good bookshelf speakers, mount them high on the sidewalls aimed towards each other.
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W
There's a bit of mis-information being presented here. The Klipsch 'WDST' surrounds (silly acronym definition: wide dispersion surround technology) are not dipoles. Dipoles, by definition, have two sets of drivers 180degrees apart, fire out of phase and (because of destructive interferance) direct no sound directly to the listening position. The Klipsch surrounds are almost like bipoles (which fire with 180degree separation, but in phase). All the Klipsch surround speakers have a single direct firing mid-woofer and a pair of in-phase horn loaded tweeters angled out 90degrees. Acoustically, this configuration is somewhere between a direct radiating and true bipole, as you there is a large portion of the energy which is directly radiated to the listener, but also a considerable amount to the sides, hence the wide dispersion term. Remember that horns tweeters are more directional than domes. Since each horn is designed to have a +/- 45degree horizontal angle of coverage, they emit over 180 degrees.


IMHO, it provides the best of both worlds. I used to have some small Klipsch bookshelves as surrounds, but found them much too localizable. Sure, disrecte effects were imaged sharply, but they could not produce a convincing enveloping surround field. Maybe this was because with only one horn there wasn't enough scattered energy.


For example, with Eagles Hell Freezes over, it sounded like there were two groups of people clapping, one to each side, rather than being in the middle of the audience. Seven Bridges Road, however, with one voice in each speaker, sounded fabulous with this set-up. I upgraded to RS-25's, the surround speaker in the Klipsch Reference line similar to what the OP is considering. This is much preferable to me for nearly all material. The WDST configuration still offers sharp enough imaging for SACD/DVD-A use, but I find the diffuse soundfield with movies to be much more convincing.


If you prefer direct radiating surrounds, that's fine; I'm just trying to relate my experience with both approaches, and to offer an alternative and educated opinion on why one might choose dedicated surround speakers. I agree that any manufacturer's surround speaker should not be chosen simply because they're the 'matching' speaker. Try both and see which you prefer. And they're more expensive because of the extra tweeter, obviously!
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Man, maybe I should learn to quit while I was only a little behind. They just look like dipoles and it wasn't clear, so I "assumed the worst" :(


Of course, there is no guarantee that a more expensive bookshelf will sound better to you either, though one might hope that would be true - sometimes, they just have a different flavor in a bigger box. I guess my other point remains that there some other companies that are quite good at providing high performance at a reasonable cost too.
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W
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike MCGowan
I want my stuff to sound good and match, so the dialogue matches the music and I don’t have my current setup where I need to turn the volume way up when people are speaking.. then when some music comes in BOOM! It is way too loud..
Having a poor center speaker, or being mis-calibrated will contribute to poor/low dialog. However, the effect of soft dialog and loud music/action is called dynamic range and is due to the how soundtracks are mixed. I understand that this can be objectionable, which is why Dolby provides a night listening mode, which compresses the dynamic range (raises the lows and lowers the peaks). I don't like it, but see if that helps.
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M
I went into tweeters today and auditioned some POLK's

They sounded quite nice too.. now I am conflicted polk vs klipsch.


I guess I gotta go back to best buy to hear the klipsch again, but their demo setup sucks.. it alone may force me to buy the polks.


Are there any reliable places online where I can get this stuff cheaper?

I've been looking, but so far prices are similar..

-Mike
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Hahahaha, I feel a "breakthrough" about to occur. Just wait til you stop going to Circuit City and Tweeter and start listening to *good* affordable speakers. :)
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I
The only thing I would disagree with is the choice of Synergy. There's truly nothing special about those speakers, other than it's a horn.


The Reference line-up is far more price-competitive, thereby enabling the choice the most dealers made to relinquish the Synergy line to Best Buy.


Better cabinet, Z-Series wired internally, better drivers; possibly a 15% cost increase at retail? Not a major difference for what you get in return.


If I were to assemble a theater-only setup, Klipsch would be tops on my list. 80% of commercial theaters are unlikely to be that wrong. :eek:
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K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike MCGowan
I went into tweeters today and auditioned some POLK's

They sounded quite nice too.. now I am conflicted polk vs klipsch.


I guess I gotta go back to best buy to hear the klipsch again, but their demo setup sucks.. it alone may force me to buy the polks.


Are there any reliable places online where I can get this stuff cheaper?

I've been looking, but so far prices are similar..

-Mike
Well some of the sponsors on the top might sell them. Also check vanns.
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M
There is a bit more bad info here. Dipole or diffusion speakers work fine on the side walls just up a few feet from listener ear measurements. That is how 5.1 started and that is what is recommended . Even on a 7.1 system you usually use dipoles on the sides and directs on the back.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRL
There is a bit more bad info here. Dipole or diffusion speakers work fine on the side walls just up a few feet from listener ear measurements. That is how 5.1 started and that is what is recommended . Even on a 7.1 system you usually use dipoles on the sides and directs on the back.
I could go into a long dissertation on why I disagree with much of this, but since it's not terribly important to the conversation at hand, we can save that for another thread, if you want.


A "bipole" rear speaker is simply functioning as a wide dispersion monopole in this instance, so it doesn't really matter.
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M
What really matters is how the person likes his movies to sound I guess so they can do it any way they like. If your are using true dipoles in the back one should change the speaker wiring out of phase to make them into a direct type of speaker even though the speakers are angled out.
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