[MrReorg]

I do not want to re-open the debate on bi-wiring. I do want to investigate my options should I choose to go the bi-wire route. The cost will be the deciding factor.


My front end is a Yamaha RX-V1000 (rated at 100 w/ch) receiver which will drive a pair of Paradigm Studio/40's (front), Studio/CC (center, but you knew that ) and a pair of Studio/20's (rear). I would like to bi-wire the /40's & /CC if that dosen't strain the budget. (I'm already thinking about the extra cost of getting the wood veneer sides for the /40's and /20's which kind of strains the budget. Of course, one possibility would be to forgo the $550 additional cost of the wood veneer versions and apply that money towards speaker wire).


I need a pair of 15' wires for the fronts and an 8' wire for the center. I won't bi-wire the rears. I'll need 30' of wire to one and 50' of wire to the other. (Or, should I make the length of the wires to the rears the same length, as I am for my fronts? But, that should be/will be another thread.)


Budget: $100 - $300 /15' ( I know, I know... low budget for biwires)

Attn: Paradigm Studio owners:
* What do you use to biwire your speakers?
* If you do not biwire, what speaker wire are you using?

 

[Michael7272]

I would say that bettercables might be your best bet.


I have been looking up different speaker cables that can be made to custom lengths...I know these might be a little high for your price range but see what ya can find. Also look at the ********** website, there is a link to Onix cables that may be of interest too.

www.sonichorizon.com
www.silversonic.com
www.usedcables.com


Mike

 

[MrReorg]

I know there are Paradigm Studio owners out there. What do you use? (I edited my original post today). What can you recommend? Hey, even if you're not an owner of the Studio speakers your input is welcome.


I haven't priced them yet but I've reading about:

AudioQuest T-4, CV-4, Slate, Bedrock, Gilbrator, Granite, Caldera.
DH Labs T14, Silver Sonic Q-10
Kimber Cable 4TC, 8TC
Monster Cable M2.4, M1.4, Z2
IXOS 6002 Super Gamma 7, 6004 Flat, 604 Superstrand


Any reasons why one is better than another?

 

[reaper]

I used Monster zip cord. I biwired every one of my speakers for about $300. They sell it at Circuit City on big spools. I don't personally believe in high priced speaker cable. My setup sounds great to me. 12 guage for the tweets and 10 for the mids. Plenty of headroom and a nice price to boot.

 

[DenisT]

I biwired my 60's with a DIY cross-connected dual-coaxial cable. They sound great and the construction is based on sound physics. The recipe is from Jon Risch, cable guru at audio assylum. You can find it at

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/index2.htm


The wire will be about 100 + 50 for terminals and another 20 for heat shrink etc.


Check out his article on biwiring on the same page.


Zip cord for the rears.

 

[Ross E]

I'll join the Monster cable camp on this one. I always use spade connectors with it, and Bi-wire my speakers that arent bi-amped. I may be tone deaf or something...but I can't hear any difference between decent monster cable and mid-high end cable(kimber, etc).

 

[Greg_R]

Quote:

* If you do not biwire, what speaker wire are you using?

I A/B'd numerous 12 gauge cables from various companies and couldn't hear any difference on my system (5700, Studio 40s). After selling off my pricier AQ Type 4 (biwired) cable I ran 12 gauge HD lamp cord to all my speakers. Additionally, I've replaced the jumper between the inputs with cable (vs. the metal shorting bar).

 

[MrReorg]

Any other thoughts?

 

[Addixion]

I use DH Labs T-14 Biwire on my Studio/60 v2's. I used to have Monster XP HT stuff. Anyone that says cable makes no difference in a system is blowing smoke. I was a student at the time I bought the wire and it wasn't easy to justify an expenditure on higher quality cable, but the reviews on the T-14 gave it a great bang-for-the-buck tilt. I've got to say, the combination of biwire and higher quality wire did just as much to open up my speakers and my system as the acoustical treatments I later put up in my room.


In obvious summary, I highly recommend the DH Labs T-14 Biwire.


-A.

 

[avdoc]

Just wanted to add another vote for DH Labs T-14 cable. I used to have Monster 10 gauge and the difference is night-and-day. With fine speakers like the Paradigms, you really owe it to yourself to get good speaker wire. The DH Labs cable is available in bulk and is extremely economical. I buy mine from www.audioc.com and have been very impressed by their service. They also sell connectors, however I use audiostream bananas as they screw on and can be re-used. As for the length of cable for the surrounds, the only reason I would buy equal lengths is if you might move the speakers and need the extra length someday. Otherwise, you're spending money needlessly and your install will be more difficult.


If I were you, I'd get bulk T-14 bi-wire cable for the mains and center and get any old copper speaker cable for the surrounds. Check www.onecall.com as they usually have in-wall cable on clearance. I seriously doubt the quality of the surround cable will make a sonic difference on movie soundtracks with the paradigms.

 

[MrReorg]

I'm not sure if I should ask this question in this tread or start another........
{Since I've received no response to this particular question within this thread, I shall re-post starting a new thread} What wire gauge is recommended for a bi-wire set-up? Which is best for treble verses mid/bass?


For example (Quoting from the Mfg websites): IXOS 6002 Super Gamma 7 and 6004 Flat utilizes "15 AWG conductors for the high frequency, and 13 AWG conductors for the bass". However, DH Labs Silver Sonic Q-10 uses "a combination of two 12 gauge and two 14 gauge conductors equates to a 10 gauge cable with an abundance of application flexibility. The cable can be run straight, as an internal bi-wire, or a standard (external) bi-wire". I can't find a description of the conductors used in the T-14. In an earlier post, Reaper mentions using "12 gauge for the tweets and 10 for the mids".


Aren't there single bi-wire cables sold that use the same gauge for both the treble and the bass? Should I avoid those? Which ones are they? (Got any names to avoid)?


What is the rule of thumb when determining speaker wire gauge, especially in a bi-wire scenario?

Quote:

posted by reaper: I used Monster zip cord. I biwired every one of my speakers for about $300. They sell it at Circuit City on big spools. I don't personally believe in high priced speaker cable. My setup sounds great to me. 12 gauge for the tweets and 10 for the mids. Plenty of headroom and a nice price to boot.

Are there negative effects (i.e. magnetic interference, RF, etc.) when using 2 wires in an external bi-wire, as suggested by Reaper, as opposed to a single internal bi-wire?

 

[phyre3]

The IXOS is nice bang for the buck stuff. I think you would do well to check out WireWorld. Many of these companies have cable test programs where you can try them for 30 days and return them if you don't like them. Anyway my thoughts.

 

[MrReorg]

Quote:

Originally posted by phyre3 The IXOS is nice bang for the buck stuff. I think you would do well to check out WireWorld. Many of these companies have cable test programs where you can try them for 30 days and return them if you don't like them. Anyway my thoughts.

I go to www.wireworld.com but am not sure what to click on from the home page. I'm usually not so dense.

 

[jakehall]

Quote:

Originally posted by Addixion Anyone that says cable makes no difference in a system is blowing smoke. ... I've got to say, the combination of biwire and higher quality wire did just as much to open up my speakers and my system as the acoustical treatments I later put up in my room.

just curious (since I'm a bit of a "smoke blower"), did you compare the old wire vs. the new wire without bi-wiring? If not, you've got two variables with one observation and cannot tell whether the improvement you heard was due to the bi-wiring or the improved cabling (or both). I'd be curious to hear how much of the difference you heard is attributable to either mod.


IMHO, bi-wiring should present a far better improvement than upgrading cables unless the current cables are drastically wrong (18ga telephone wire or something )


jake

 

[MrReorg]

Quote:

Originally posted by DenisT I biwired my 60's with a DIY cross-connected dual-coaxial cable. They sound great and the construction is based on sound physics. The recipe is from Jon Risch, cable guru at audio assylum. You can find it at http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/index2.htm The wire will be about 100 + 50 for terminals and another 20 for heat shrink etc. Check out his article on biwiring on the same page. Zip cord for the rears.

Denis,

You were kind enough to post a response and I didn't mean to ignore you as if your thoughts were of no consequence. I did not mean to offend


I just want to say that when it comes to A/V I rather not attempt the DIY route. If I didn't do it 'just right' I'd be afraid that I would negatively effect the sonics. But, thanks again, for the suggestion.

 

[Graeme Shiomi]

I bi-wire my Studio 60's with Audioquest Slate. Great stuff IMHO, but the downside is that, as with all Audioquest Cable, it is stiff as hell since it is solid not stranded wire.


Graeme

 

[Addixion]

Quote:

Originally posted by jakehall just curious (since I'm a bit of a "smoke blower"), did you compare the old wire vs. the new wire without bi-wiring? If not, you've got two variables with one observation and cannot tell whether the improvement you heard was due to the bi-wiring or the improved cabling (or both). I'd be curious to hear how much of the difference you heard is attributable to either mod. IMHO, bi-wiring should present a far better improvement than upgrading cables unless the current cables are drastically wrong (18ga telephone wire or something ) jake

Interesting comment, as when I was originally shopping for cables I was told that the cable itself would make a difference, but that biwiring was a gimmick. I was told that unless I bi-amped, biwiring would make no difference.


Anyways, to answer your question, I initially did listen to the new wire without biwiring. What I found was that the T-14 made a drastic improvement over the Monster XP HT in the high end. Gone was most of the harshness in the treble.


Biwiring, on the other hand, didn't seem to make much of a tonal difference in the sound quality. However, what it DID do was open up the soundstage, more in depth than in width.


At the time, I was living in a terrible acoustical environment with hardwood floors and walls practically made of papier mache. I had replaced my Energy Take 5 system with the Paradigm Studio/60 v2's, and was depressed that the beautiful sound I had heard coming from the latter in the dealer's store just wasn't the same in my apartment. Seriously, the Studio/60's had sounded much better than anything else I auditioned that didn't have the name "Joseph Audio" on them, and I started looking at tweaks to make the Paradigms sound better at home. The muting of the harshness that resulted from the cable switch made all the difference in the world for me.


-A.

 

[JoeBFL]

Consider a pair of audioquest crystal biwire,

can be found used, and made a tremendous difference in my system in regards to soundtstaging.

 

[avdoc]

Regarding the gauge of speaker cable, I wouldn't worry about it. I think you get an audible improvement going from monster cable to something like DH Labs T-14. I don't think you will get significant sonic improvement mixing and matching wire. In fact, I would think (asthetically more than anything) that mismatching wire would be detrimental. Someone else remarked that the T-14 improved the treble. While I also heard improved transparency, I noticed the biggest difference in the bass. Very clear and clean and at least a 1/2 octave greater extension. I recently upgraded the speaker cable going to by subwoofer (SVS 16-46) and was amazed at the difference it made. So, if you want my advice, go with T-14 to both treble and bass, you won't be sorry.

 

[MrReorg]

It gets so confusing, similar to trying to narrow down a pair of speakers to buy. There are so many choices...so many claims.


One company says silver causes harshness, another says it smooths out the sound. Cable geometry, dielectrics, not to mention the multiple quality levels of OFC. Yes, all OFC is not the same, or at least thats what one of the cable brochures says. Each company explains why their phylosophy on cables is right. Then there are the reviews on many of the cables, touting the good attributes of whatever is under review.


I want to upgrade from Monster XP (currently being used with my Klipsch KG4 speakers; which I am anxiously anticipating being replaced with the Studio's) but I cannot afford to spend a lot.