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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been using the composite video input on my PLV-60 since the projector's component inputs are not working. The picture has a noticeable screen door effect even with sharpness all the way off (I am 13' away, using 100" Greyhawk). Have any PLV-60 owners compared the composite to the component for screen door effect. I am thinking that if it doesn't improve with the component input then I will go for a projector with less of a problem in this area.


If anyone out there can let me know if the screen door improves with component inputs please let me know. Also, if I am going to change is the VW10 better in this area, or are there any other projectors I should look at in the under $8000 category?


Thanks,


Jack
 

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The screen door effect is not a result of the input signal, but a result of the LCD panel structure. Until they start staggering the pixel structure, LCD's will have a screen door effect. The way to get rid of the screen door effect is to go with a different technology such a DLP, but then you get into "rainbow" effects. There are no perfect projectors out there, but they are getting closer.


Or there is a lens out there that is fairly expensive (about $2K) that will reduce the screen door effect some more.


[This message has been edited by Jonmx (edited 06-16-2001).]
 

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I have a Sanyo 21N which has the Micro lens Array (MLA). The MLA is said to reduce the screen door effect. I have never seen the PLV-60 or the 18N which do not have MLA. I really think that the screen door issue is overblown, at least from my experience. I hardly notice the screen door. It really helps if you bump the unit out of focus a bit to soften the picture. As for your situation, I would think that the washed picture from your composite input would allow you to see more of the screen door than a saturated component signal. What is the problem with the component input anyway?


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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The problem with my components is that the new projector (just set up on 6/15) is not accepting the Cb (Pb) and the Cr (Pr), probably just a fluke quality control issue. So I am using one of the component video cables and feeding it the input from the DVD players composite to the projectors. I would use S-Video, but I have a 12 meter run and I have the cable on order (that is why I am using one of the component cables for composite right now).


On the focus should I defocus up or down and how much just a quick couple of presses on the focus button?


Thanks
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by 007jack:


On the focus should I defocus up or down and how much just a quick couple of presses on the focus button?


Thanks[/b]
I have an LCD projector as well, which has much worse screen door than you will expect to see. You should unfocus, either direction, until the pixels just start to touch OR slightly overlap. At this point you will truly soften the image though...it should be a tradeoff to what you find most pleasing. You can do this by standing right in front of the screen (if yours is powered focus), and literally watch the pixels blend. Or, just try from your couch. However, u should note, that by reducing the screen door effect, your perceived sharpness of your image is going to drop down greatly (ie. it will NOT look sharp).


HOWEVER: I have heard things about the pVL60 having some graininess issue which may be separate from the screen door effect. I am not fully aware of the problem, so you may choose to look into it in greater detail with other owners...




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David Mendicino

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Quote:
until they start staggering the pixel structure, LCD's will have a screen door effect. The way to get rid of the screen door effect is to go with a different technology such a DLP, but then you get into "rainbow" effects. There are no perfect projectors out there...
Umm...I think that you are forgetting another technology with almost NO screen door and absolutely NO rainbow effect.


I agree that there are no perfect projectors out there, but if you are willing to compromise other areas besides the picture, D-ILA is still (as the JVC marketing materials say) "Uncompromised Image Quality".


Having said that, I liked the PLV-60 quite a bit at Infocomm, and posted that I felt that this projector was "best of" at the shoot-out. However, the screen door was definitely worse than even other LCD projectors. I am not sure why that would be, but it made the picture look quite "grainy" to look at.


If you sit/stand far enough back, the PLV-60 looks really good.
 

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Mark, now that you've seen the PLV-60 in person, how would you compare its contrast and brightness to your G-11? I'm still trying to decide whether the keep the PLV-60 or trade up to a G-15. I definitely do not like the screen door (or graininess) on the PLV-60, but I sure do like the brightness, the color and the contrast. I would hate to lose some of that by going with the G-15, but from what I've read it sounds like the DILA's also excel in those areas.
 

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Is the image quality of the PLV-60 with the 16:9 panel really a step up from the Sanyo XP-21N or XP-18N? If it has a worse screen door effect, it would seem wise to go with the XP-18N and save the money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I did try the defocus trick and it does improve the screen door and also softens the picture as you mentioned. I still have the graininess and I am not sure if it is screen door or something else???


I haven't calibrated it with AVIA yet, I will tonight. Maybe my new settings will help to tone down the graininess.


This is my first projector so I have nothing to compare it's performance to, but I would take a softer picture or less brightness/contrast for no screen door effect and graininess. Granted the 16:9 panels are nice, but I am not sure if this is a keeper or not...
 

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Hi Smitty,


Luckily (or ironically), the JVC and Sanyo exhibits at Infocomm were adjacent to each other, so it was fairly easy to look at one, and then go over and look at the other.


Due to the placement of the 8 or so D-ILAs within and outside the JVC booth, the G150HT had to be displayed about 8 feet up, so it wasn't a "direct" full-on picture. However, you could get as close as you could and would see no screen door.


The Sanyo was lower, and you could walk right up to it (if you wanted to), but the screen door was quite obvious once you step past the projector literature stand.


Both of them have great colors (unlike most of the uninspiring colors on the DLPs that were there), great contrast, great brightness (although the Sanyo seemed to be slightly brighter, the D-ILA seemed to have better black levels...this is likely a consequence of the D-ILA calibration, which purposely reduces brightness to get a better black level). The only problem with all of that brightness on the Sanyo was that it made the screen door on it even more apparent.


I think that the Sanyo could benefit greatly from a GrayHawk screen and a Cygnus IMX depixelator. Are you using either/both of those? They might be worthwhile "add-on" upgrades if you won't want to upgrade the projector itself.


Sorry, Jon, I don't know if I even saw the other Sanyo projectors. I was most impressed with the PLV-60 at the show (except for the one obvious flaw). Maybe someone else who went to the show will be able to weigh in on that one.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by milori:
Sorry, Jon, I don't know if I even saw the other Sanyo projectors. I was most impressed with the PLV-60 at the show (except for the one obvious flaw). Maybe someone else who went to the show will be able to weigh in on that one.
They probably weren't at the show. I think the PLV-60 is the first projector Sanyo considers a home theater class projector, although the XP-18N and XP-21N are two of the best.
 

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Mark, thanks for the info. I am using the GrayHawk, and am hoping to see if the IMX Processor helps with the screen door. The problem is that I've been trying to get Shawn to send me one for two weeks. Hopefully, it will arrive next week, as I my trial period for the PLV-60 ends at the end on next week. I have my doubts that the IMX is going to solve the screen door as noticeable as it seems to be to me, but you never know.
 

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I have a vw10ht with an 8' foot wide screen. At a 9 foot viewing distance the screen door effect is slightly noticable, but not objectionable (very watchable in my opinion). At a 13 foot viewing distance you can not notice the pixels at all. I watch movies in both positions depending on my mood. I have not seen the sanyo vpl-60 so I can not compare the two. I assumed that sanyo gets their panels from sony, since sony has been manufacturing them for almost two years. But if that was the case then the screen door effect would be the same. So apparantly the sanyo panel must be different and has a lower fill factor.


The rainbow effect personally doesn't effect me with DLPs. But I wouldn't and didn't buy one only because I was worried that the high rpm spinnig color wheel would be malfunctioning on older units since it always spinning at super high speeds. LCDs have no moving parts. But so far I have not heard of a color wheel malfunctioning.


I like the 10ht, and its only short coming is that it can not produce blacks as well as the CRTs. But it is better at it than most other LCDs. If the sanyo black level is as good as people say and someone can fix its screen door effect problem then it sounds like a great machine.


Good Luck - William
 

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Smitty-


I agree with pretty much everything Mark said. I would however point out that the Sanyo booth had much more ambient light in it than did the JVC booth which would lead me to surmise that the Sanyo's already excellent contrast and black level would only get better with proper theater lighting conditions.


Mark is correct about the screen door becoming visible when you stood in front of the literature stand. For those that find this really objectionable, you might want to make sure your primary viewing distance is at least 13 feet back or so. Alternatively, the Cygnus IMX lens might solve the problem.


Jon-


Neither the XP18N or XP21N were at the show which was a bummer.


Kirk
 

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Has anyone determined yet if this graininess IS infact the screen door effect or something with the scaler?


It would seem strange that this would have MORE screen door effect problems than the 10HT, which uses the same panels, or if they are from the 11HT, well then, this may not be so good when it comes out.


Mark, when you walked closer, was it definitely pixel structure leading to the graininess?



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Hi David,


The "graininess" was much more evident in the shoot-out area, where all projectors were displaying the same mandatory material.


The Sanyo had some of the best colors at the show, probably even better than the 10HT. However, since Sony did not enter any projectors in the shoot-out, it is impossible to tell.


The effect was less dramatic (but still visible) in the Sanyo booth with their hand-picked video material (mostly 1080i HDTV).


My personal opinion was that the graininess was NOT the screen door effect itself, but some sort of processing problem with the projector (electronic). That does provide hope that Sanyo will be able to fix it.
 

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PS - To cut down on some personal e-mail I've been getting...


NO, there was nothing at the show that was better than a D-ILA JVC G11. No, I would not trade in the G11 for anything that was displayed at the show (except for the higher-end D-ILAs).


I am reporting on some other great units from the show, since the JVC G11 is not generally available, but most of the projectors still have compromises in the image quality somewhere, so I would not consider anything except a D-ILA myself.


That is just personal preference. The pros and cons are well known. Hopefully, that will answer some questions that I've been getting privately.
 

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I have auditioned the XP21N in my home. I thought the screen door was quite visible and distracting in bright scenes at 17' away from an 8' wide screen.


I also witnessed the PLV-60 in the Sanyo booth. I thought the screen door was quite visible and distracting in bright scenes several feet behind the literature.


I also witnessed the PLV-60 in the shootout room. This time I felt the screen door was not a big issue and I was standing closer. But I can't remember if bright material was being shown. I tried to go back and re-witness it after I visited the Sanyo booth, but they closed the shootout early. I also tried to get information about how the Sanyo was connected in the shootout, but was unsuccessful.


I also witnessed the 5500 lumen Sanyo EF30 which exibited no noticeable screen door, but was also not direct view as it was raised many feet above the floor. It looked real good though.


--Les
 

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I get the impression that Sanyo considers projector product life to be about 1 year. The XP21N and XP18 were not shown at the show ostensibly because Sanyo was only showing new products unlike NEC, Sony, Sharp, etc.


I wouldn't be surprised to see a new version of these in 6-12 months though.


My Sanyo book shows a new XP-40, but there are some clear typos as to its performance. My guess is that it will be a UHP version of the XP30 with 2600 lumens instead of 3000 lumens. I suspect that it will replace the XP21 and XP18 at some point.


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Ken Elliott
 
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