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Discussion Starter #1
I am looking for a used 7 channel receiver from a higher level series. It will be used 80% for music so sound quality is a top priority. I will be using a sub in my system, so high power is not a necessity. As far as inputs goes, HDMI (with hdmi pass through) is a must, phono would be good but not a must. I also like nice things like metal face place, good binding post, independent power cord, etc. I don’t have much experience with room correction software as my current Sony receiver is missing a mic. But it would hurt to get a unit with decent room correction software.

I will be mostly looking to buy from ebay, so feel free to suggest a series if you think that will be more helpful as opposed to a specific model. Also do tell about the sound signature of the different brands.
I love the 'clean' sound of my current Sony ES receiver, but it is somewhat unreliable--(I think) it has connector contact issues.

Oh! My budget is $150. Thanks!
 

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The only way you'll get a high end AVR for $150 is if you buy a really old one, ie Yamaha DSP-A1 or similar., which when new was about £2000, they're available for about £100 now.

AVR's do depreciate a lot but forget getting a flagship model for $150. You should be able to get a £500/£600 mid range AVR that is a couple of generations old for £150-£200

Although saying that ebay listing is a laugh they're selling them for 500 bucks lol "RARE"
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The only way you'll get a high end AVR for $150 is if you buy a really old one, ie Yamaha DSP-A1 or similar., which when new was about £2000, they're available for about £100 now.

AVR's do depreciate a lot but forget getting a flagship model for $150. You should be able to get a £500/£600 mid range AVR that is a couple of generations old for £150-£200

Although saying that ebay listing is a laugh they're selling them for 500 bucks lol "RARE"
Ok, I am willing to expand my budget by 100$ (budget is now 250), but I do see a lot of good AVRs that are a few years old sell cheap on ebay. I see Pioneer elites going in the $200 range.
 

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This has GOT to be another April Fools thing....right???
 
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Hi-End!!! $250.00, lmao... Good luck on your Quest!:p
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The only way you'll get a high end AVR for $150 is if you buy a really old one, ie Yamaha DSP-A1 or similar., which when new was about £2000, they're available for about £100 now.

AVR's do depreciate a lot but forget getting a flagship model for $150. You should be able to get a £500/£600 mid range AVR that is a couple of generations old for £150-£200

Although saying that ebay listing is a laugh they're selling them for 500 bucks lol "RARE"
Marantz SR 7400 on ebay for $100
I understand that this does not have hdmi, but is this a great amp for music?
 

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Marantz SR 7400 on ebay for $100
I understand that this does not have hdmi, but is this a great amp for music?
What are you looking for when you ask if it is a great amp for music? Most here, myself included, do not believe there is any discernible difference in sound quality between amplifiers of similar power when used within their limits. The idea that some receivers sound better for music than others is simply delusional nonsense. There may be specific sound processing in some receivers that works better in your room than another. There are few receivers that will do well with a 4 ohm or lower impedance, so if you have speakers that present a 4 ohm load then you may have to search for one to meet that requirement. If you are looking for great sound, put your money into great speakers. Buy a receiver based on the features that you need, not because someone says it sounds good.

Some years ago, acclaimed speaker designer and audio engineer Earl Geddes took note when I posted in a forum about a Pioneer receiver that Costco was selling for $150. It had preamp outputs and full 7.1 inputs allowing its use as a power amp, both of which were unusual features in such a cheap receiver. He started using it and boasted how his speakers sounded great even with such an inexpensive receiver. Do a google search and you can find some amazing reviews of his Summa loudspeakers driven by his cheap Pioneer receiver.
 

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What are you looking for when you ask if it is a great amp for music? Most here, myself included, do not believe there is any discernible difference in sound quality between amplifiers of similar power when used within their limits. The idea that some receivers sound better for music than others is simply delusional nonsense. Their may be specific sound processing in some receivers that works better in your room than another. There are few receivers that will do well with a 4 ohm or lower impedance, so if you have speakers that present a 4 ohm load then you may have to search for one to meet that requirement. If you are looking for great sound, put your money into great speakers. Buy a receiver based on the features that you need, not because someone says it sounds good.

Some years ago, acclaimed speaker designer and audio engineer Earl Geddes took note when I posted in a forum about a Pioneer receiver that Costco was selling for $150. It had preamp outputs and full 7.1 inputs allowing its use as a power amp, both of which were unusual features in such a cheap receiver. He started using it and boasted how his speakers sounded great even with such an inexpensive receiver. Do a google search and you can find some amazing reviews of his Summa loudspeakers driven by his cheap Pioneer receiver.
I see zgeneral and fmw have now another account LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Here you go. Denon AVR-2809 for $255. $25 shipping unless you're local to seller.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Denon-AVR-2...655?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e9c1abff7

4 HDMI inputs, TrueHD and DTS-MA decoding, phono input, Audyssey MultEQ XT room correction, plenty of power, detachable power cord, made in Japan, not China or Malaysia.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-xkGSL8BmsJO/p_033AV2809C/Denon-AVR-2809CI.html
Thanks, @afrogt; this what I was expecting to hear!

But it looks like I’ll hold off on buying another AVR for little while longer. I just saw the response of a member on the Sony forum about a potential fix for my Sony ES receiver. His receiver had the same symptoms, and (he said) according to Sony the problem is with one of the ram chips on the DSP board. The chip is about $5, but I need to find a tech who can replace a surface mounted chip. Do you guys know of anyone I can ship the board or unit to?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
What are you looking for when you ask if it is a great amp for music? Most here, myself included, do not believe there is any discernible difference in sound quality between amplifiers of similar power when used within their limits. The idea that some receivers sound better for music than others is simply delusional nonsense. There may be specific sound processing in some receivers that works better in your room than another. There are few receivers that will do well with a 4 ohm or lower impedance, so if you have speakers that present a 4 ohm load then you may have to search for one to meet that requirement. If you are looking for great sound, put your money into great speakers. Buy a receiver based on the features that you need, not because someone says it sounds good.

Some years ago, acclaimed speaker designer and audio engineer Earl Geddes took note when I posted in a forum about a Pioneer receiver that Costco was selling for $150. It had preamp outputs and full 7.1 inputs allowing its use as a power amp, both of which were unusual features in such a cheap receiver. He started using it and boasted how his speakers sounded great even with such an inexpensive receiver. Do a google search and you can find some amazing reviews of his Summa loudspeakers driven by his cheap Pioneer receiver.
Based on my experience I have to disagree with you. I have played similar material on 4 different AVRs connected to the same set of speakers at moderate volumes. In all cases no room correction was applied, and bass and treble was set at 0db.

This is what I found in terms of sound quality:
Relatively harsh ----Onkyo TX-SR600 ----Onkyo TX-DS747--Denon AVR 1707---Sony DA5300ES-Smooth and clean

Actually TX-SR600 was my backup when my Sony acted up, yet I sold the onkyo because I didn’t like its sound. Perhaps there is not much of a difference in the analog amplification itself, but differences in DAC technology and other circuity (not connected with room correction) is clearly discernable to my ears.
 

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Based on my experience I have to disagree with you. I have played similar material on 4 different AVRs connected to the same set of speakers at moderate volumes. In all cases no room correction was applied, and bass and treble was set at 0db.

This is what I found in terms of sound quality:
Relatively harsh ----Onkyo TX-SR600 ----Onkyo TX-DS747--Denon AVR 1707---Sony DA5300ES-Smooth and clean

Actually TX-SR600 was my backup when my Sony acted up, yet I sold the onkyo because I didn’t like its sound. Perhaps there is not much of a difference in the analog amplification itself, but differences in DAC technology and other circuity (not connected with room correction) is clearly discernable to my ears.
You should consider the possibility that rather than differences in DAC technology and other circuitry, that minute differences in volume, your precise listening position, unreliable auditory memory, and other miscellaneous factors that have nothing to do with the electronics are at play here. Scientifically valid comparisons have repeatedly demonstrated that your observations are almost certainly not repeatable under double blind conditions. If you believe that you indeed can discern such differences, and such differences can be described as harsh vs smooth, then why would you ask for others to offer opinions when their auditory acuity, biases, and preferences are likely different from your own. When it is debated that such differences are even audible, it puzzles me that people would think that others would hear the same differences and apply the same ranking to such ephemeral differences.

I firmly believe that huge sonic differences can be realized through better speakers. The levels of distortion produced by speakers are an order of magnitude greater than any possible discernible distortion from amplifiers and DACs. The problem is that to obtain the results that top notch speakers can deliver usually requires a major investment in both cost and size. Look at some of the systems people in the DIY speakers forum enjoy when the impediment of cost is at least somewhat minimized, and size constraints are thrown out the window. Here is one such example: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1311851-new-waveguides-octagon.html

If you want to improve your system for music, get better speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You should consider the possibility that rather than differences in DAC technology and other circuitry, that minute differences in volume, your precise listening position, unreliable auditory memory, and other miscellaneous factors that have nothing to do with the electronics are at play here. Scientifically valid comparisons have repeatedly demonstrated that your observations are almost certainly not repeatable under double blind conditions. If you believe that you indeed can discern such differences, and such differences can be described as harsh vs smooth, then why would you ask for others to offer opinions when their auditory acuity, biases, and preferences are likely different from your own. When it is debated that such differences are even audible, it puzzles me that people would think that others would hear the same differences and apply the same ranking to such ephemeral differences.

I firmly believe that huge sonic differences can be realized through better speakers. The levels of distortion produced by speakers are an order of magnitude greater than any possible discernible distortion from amplifiers and DACs. The problem is that to obtain the results that top notch speakers can deliver usually requires a major investment in both cost and size. Look at some of the systems people in the DIY speakers forum enjoy when the impediment of cost is at least somewhat minimized, and size constraints are thrown out the window. Here is one such example: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1311851-new-waveguides-octagon.html

If you want to improve your system for music, get better speakers.
Yes, there are various factors in play here. And based on my experience I believe the factors I am considering are quite discernible (at least to me). But that doesn't mean I am discounting the factors you bring up.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I listened to the 4 major (Pioneer, Denon, Marantz and Yamaha) AV receiver in the Magnolia room in BestBuy. I set them all to pure direct the same volume level. There were some very minute differences between the receiver, but I wouldn’t have been able to tell which is which in a blind test. Because the difference were so minute I really don’t have a preference now. So if I had to buy one of them, I would decide based on price and features. This is a little different from my previous position. But I still maintain, that my Sony ES sounds much cleaner than the entry/mid-level Onkyo SR600 I used to own.
 
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