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So I'm guessing that maybe it was my comments that started this....
I love Sony products - I own 3 different cameras from them, among other electronics. I headed their route when looking for my TV. They came out of the running because of the size, but I still looked into them. When I saw it at the store next to the TV I ended up purchasing, it didn't look as good. I was very disapointed after hearing all the hype about the XBR super fine pitch stuff... the picture was very soft, looked dirty and grungy. Could have been tweaks, but my experience is that usually they tweak-up the Sony's over other products. The JVC just looked way better.
I thing Sony is over hyped. They make a great product, but its over priced. Similar to Cisco in the networking world, and even my domain - Intel in the CPU market.. some companies get away with charging more on their name... just happens that way.
I love Sony products - I own 3 different cameras from them, among other electronics. I headed their route when looking for my TV. They came out of the running because of the size, but I still looked into them. When I saw it at the store next to the TV I ended up purchasing, it didn't look as good. I was very disapointed after hearing all the hype about the XBR super fine pitch stuff... the picture was very soft, looked dirty and grungy. Could have been tweaks, but my experience is that usually they tweak-up the Sony's over other products. The JVC just looked way better.
I thing Sony is over hyped. They make a great product, but its over priced. Similar to Cisco in the networking world, and even my domain - Intel in the CPU market.. some companies get away with charging more on their name... just happens that way.
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In a lot of products and genres Dony ain't what it used to be. However, when it comes to 34" 16:9 HDTV televisions I dont think there is an equal to the 34XBR910 (yet).
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Sony products have excellent quality. But i've had many bad experiences with reliability. I work at a retailer and have seen many returns and defectinve sony products, mostly on the cheaper products. It seems that the top-of-the-line sony products have excellent quality and durability, but the lower-end products aren't worth it. so a WEGA is worth the excellent color, but a sony DVD player, VCR, stereo, or
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Are Sony products good? Yes. Are the XBR TV's and such awesome? Yes.
Do a lot of these products cost a lot more than they should? Yes.
Sony reminds me of Bose a little bit. Let me explain how and why.
Bose, being FAR worse on this scale, sells like hotcakes due to name recognition and some pretty aggressive and unfair marketing advantages and strategies. (Exclusive areas in AV stores for their speakers, etc.)
Problem is: Most of their stuff is crap. A $1000 set of speakers from them ought to really cost about $200.
Sony, on the other hand, has a much closer margin of product quality to price. They don't make crap outright like Bose does, most of the time.
But it's kind of the same thing. Sony sells like hotcakes indiscriminately because that's the name every Average Joe on the street knows, so they think they've got the best if they bundle Sony and Bose for their video and audio needs and they never give it a second thought.
Best case scenario: They're only 50 percent right. I think Sony does have some of the best video products (like the XBR's) on the market. That's their specialty.
In overall consumer electronics, Sony has been cutting a lot of corners in recent years. Their PlayStation 2 video game system? If you bought one at launch, there's a very high probability you've replaced it at least one time since then.
Like I said, Bose is WAAAY worse on this scale, but superficially, I'm starting to feel deja vu.
Do a lot of these products cost a lot more than they should? Yes.
Sony reminds me of Bose a little bit. Let me explain how and why.
Bose, being FAR worse on this scale, sells like hotcakes due to name recognition and some pretty aggressive and unfair marketing advantages and strategies. (Exclusive areas in AV stores for their speakers, etc.)
Problem is: Most of their stuff is crap. A $1000 set of speakers from them ought to really cost about $200.
Sony, on the other hand, has a much closer margin of product quality to price. They don't make crap outright like Bose does, most of the time.
But it's kind of the same thing. Sony sells like hotcakes indiscriminately because that's the name every Average Joe on the street knows, so they think they've got the best if they bundle Sony and Bose for their video and audio needs and they never give it a second thought.
Best case scenario: They're only 50 percent right. I think Sony does have some of the best video products (like the XBR's) on the market. That's their specialty.
In overall consumer electronics, Sony has been cutting a lot of corners in recent years. Their PlayStation 2 video game system? If you bought one at launch, there's a very high probability you've replaced it at least one time since then.
Like I said, Bose is WAAAY worse on this scale, but superficially, I'm starting to feel deja vu.
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Like I've said in another thread, the Sony TV's give off a beautiful Picture. No question. But for overall quality, reliability, and consumer cost, SONY IS OVERPRICED. You can get a HDTV that is just as good in OVERALL value for about $200-$400 less than the Sony. The SONY picture is not worth all that extra money when you could get the same size set from another manufacturer(Toshiba, Panasonic, Zenith) for about $300 less. That extra money you are spending in essence is a WASTE IMHO.
With regards to SONY's XBR's, they do have the BEST Picture going. But give the other manufacturers time. They will also come with some sort of SUPER FINE PITCH TUBE(Under a different name) that will be equal or surpass the Sony and it will be cheaper. That I'm definately sure of.
With regards to SONY's XBR's, they do have the BEST Picture going. But give the other manufacturers time. They will also come with some sort of SUPER FINE PITCH TUBE(Under a different name) that will be equal or surpass the Sony and it will be cheaper. That I'm definately sure of.
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The greatest Sony products are the best--all the lesser ones while good are not worth the money. One reason Sony got the reputation of being a great product was that it was generally more reliable that at the time American brands such as Zenith and RCA--for years though it only produced scarlet reds, not candy apple ones. It is still possible for other manufacturers to best it in Picture Quality, but as there are less and less CRT producers it is getting more and more unlikely though in my opinion Zenith, Toshiba, and Panasonic still have the potential to best it.
The best way to get market share other than what they're currently doing in the price ranges below the XBR would be to outsize them. If tomorrow some company came out with a 38-inch 4:3 set or a 38-inch 16:9 set it would sell like hotcakes! Give Americans what they want in CRT--give them huge size in a non silver cabinet--blow everyone's minds and actually produce a set with great built in sound, a zillion inputs and outputs, and really get radical and produce one in a great wooden cabinet and one in charcoal marble! You may think I'm daft, but try something new. I think Video manufacturers merchandising departments lack imagination!
The best way to get market share other than what they're currently doing in the price ranges below the XBR would be to outsize them. If tomorrow some company came out with a 38-inch 4:3 set or a 38-inch 16:9 set it would sell like hotcakes! Give Americans what they want in CRT--give them huge size in a non silver cabinet--blow everyone's minds and actually produce a set with great built in sound, a zillion inputs and outputs, and really get radical and produce one in a great wooden cabinet and one in charcoal marble! You may think I'm daft, but try something new. I think Video manufacturers merchandising departments lack imagination!
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And for some people it's worth the price difference ... for some it's not ... not everyone is going to come to the same conclusion.
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Personally, I doubt it. I don't think anyone's doing any CRT R&D right now ... yes, they'll keep making them ... but new R&D? Nope ... they're gettng ready for LCD.
| Originally posted by STEELERSRULE With regards to SONY's XBR's, they do have the BEST Picture going. |
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| Originally posted by STEELERSRULE But give the other manufacturers time. They will also come with some sort of SUPER FINE PITCH TUBE(Under a different name) that will be equal or surpass the Sony and it will be cheaper. That I'm definately sure of. |
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For CRT TVs, I think Sony is worth a premium.
They were first with Trinitron (vertically flat tube), first with Wega (all flat tube) and first with Super-Fine-Pitch.
Are they leaps-and-bounds above all other brands? No. There are a lot of good TVs out there that aren't made by Sony.
Are they worth the premium they charge? It's up to you to decide!
Are they the best bang for the buck? Maybe not -- the bang is there, but it costs a lot of bucks!
For all other electronics (DVD players, sound systems, car radios), Sony ranges from average to plain bad and shouldn't be considered top-of-the-line in my opinion.
This kind of "religious" discussion is like Mac vs. PC or (your favourite car here) vs. Others... some people value good ergonomics/aesthetics while others only look at cold specs and can't figure why people are paying more for "good looks"...
-- Patate
They were first with Trinitron (vertically flat tube), first with Wega (all flat tube) and first with Super-Fine-Pitch.
Are they leaps-and-bounds above all other brands? No. There are a lot of good TVs out there that aren't made by Sony.
Are they worth the premium they charge? It's up to you to decide!
Are they the best bang for the buck? Maybe not -- the bang is there, but it costs a lot of bucks!
For all other electronics (DVD players, sound systems, car radios), Sony ranges from average to plain bad and shouldn't be considered top-of-the-line in my opinion.
This kind of "religious" discussion is like Mac vs. PC or (your favourite car here) vs. Others... some people value good ergonomics/aesthetics while others only look at cold specs and can't figure why people are paying more for "good looks"...
-- Patate
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Discussions at AVS are more than a religion--thy're a way of life!
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Seems this is an often overlooked fact about Sony CRT's ,They use Aperture grille rather than Shadow mask,To me this is one of the main reasons Sony's have the edge in color vividness & contrast output while maintaining a sharp detailed picture.
paste from a random Google search on Shadow mask vs. Aperture grille:
" Question
What's the difference between INVAR shadow mask and aperture grille monitors?
Answer
Both are types of filters used in CRT monitors to restrict light in precise ways so that the final image displayed will be accurate and sharp. Both styles produce great results.
A shadow mask uses finely positioned holes to restrict light flow. Shadow masks are typically made from a heat resistant metal alloy called INVAR, which prevents the filter from distorting and warping from heat generated from years of use. These monitors are excellent for displaying highly precise lines, shapes, and text. Shadow mask accuracy is measured using diagonal, horizontal, and vertical dot pitches.
An aperture grille uses very thin bands for the process of restricting light. Most high-end monitors use this CRT design. These monitors are best for superior color depth and brighter images. Aperture grille accuracy is measured using grille pitch. "
| Originally posted by Joxer Sony's CRTs are unique, only they have AGP Trinitron tubes - the other manufacturers use Shadow Mask CRTs. |
paste from a random Google search on Shadow mask vs. Aperture grille:
" Question
What's the difference between INVAR shadow mask and aperture grille monitors?
Answer
Both are types of filters used in CRT monitors to restrict light in precise ways so that the final image displayed will be accurate and sharp. Both styles produce great results.
A shadow mask uses finely positioned holes to restrict light flow. Shadow masks are typically made from a heat resistant metal alloy called INVAR, which prevents the filter from distorting and warping from heat generated from years of use. These monitors are excellent for displaying highly precise lines, shapes, and text. Shadow mask accuracy is measured using diagonal, horizontal, and vertical dot pitches.
An aperture grille uses very thin bands for the process of restricting light. Most high-end monitors use this CRT design. These monitors are best for superior color depth and brighter images. Aperture grille accuracy is measured using grille pitch. "
Well if you look at Sony's warranty over their broad range of their product line none of their warranty exceeds 90 days. I'm referring to labor since component warranties are useless with the cost of components so cheap.
Most of Sony's competing manufactures provide 1 year labor warranties, although on TV's most seem to only over 90 day warranties on labor. But coming from the electronics industry, warranties are usually set based on the MTBF component values used in a circuit design. Use cheap components set short warranties, use good components set longer warranties. All of Sony's products come with 90 day warranties which says a lot to me. Not to mention first hand knowledge after owning both a Sony VCR and Sony Camcorder and both dieing on me shortly after the warranty expired.
I'll never buy another Sony product!
Most of Sony's competing manufactures provide 1 year labor warranties, although on TV's most seem to only over 90 day warranties on labor. But coming from the electronics industry, warranties are usually set based on the MTBF component values used in a circuit design. Use cheap components set short warranties, use good components set longer warranties. All of Sony's products come with 90 day warranties which says a lot to me. Not to mention first hand knowledge after owning both a Sony VCR and Sony Camcorder and both dieing on me shortly after the warranty expired.
I'll never buy another Sony product!
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Well, it goes across the boards with a term my grandfather used to say all the time, and something I am a firm believer in:
Built-in obsolescence.
But Sony should not be singled out for that. Everyone's guilty of it.
Built-in obsolescence.
But Sony should not be singled out for that. Everyone's guilty of it.
Ok, very good discussion. Yes you are correct ccallana it was your comments that started this, but please take no offense. You brought up what I thought was a very valid point. Are we Sony owners simply overstating the product or is it as good as we think or "wish" it would be? Food for thought. Regards, MrJ
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Limited Warranty - XBR Televisions
SONY ELECTRONICS INC. ("SONY") warrants this Product (including any accessories) against defect in material or workmanship, subject to any conditions set forth as follows:
1. LABOR: For a period of one year (365) days from the date of purchase, if this Product is determined to be defective, SONY will repair or replace the Product, at its option, at no charge, or pay the labor charges to any SONY authorized service facility. After the warranty period, you must pay for all labor charges.
2. PARTS: In addition, SONY will supply, at no charge, new or rebuilt replacements in exchange for defective parts for a period of one (1) year . After ninety (90) days from the date of purchase, labor for removal and installation is available from Sony authorized service facilities or a SONY Service Center at your expense.
3. ACCESSORIES: Parts and labor for all accessories are for one (1) year.
In-home diagnostic warranty service is provided during the initial ninety (90) day period for 19" (measured diagonally) or larger screen size through a SONY authorized service facility.
To obtain warranty service, you must take the Product, or deliver the Product freight prepaid, in either its original packaging or packaging affording an equal degree of protection, to any authorized SONY service facility.
This warranty does not cover customer instruction, installation, set up adjustments or signal reception problems.
This warranty does not cover cosmetic damage or damage due to acts of God, accident, misuse, abuse, negligence, commercial use, or modification of, or to any part of the Product, including the antenna. This warranty does not cover damage due to improper operation or maintenance, connection to improper voltage supply, or attempted repair by anyone other than a facility authorized by SONY to service the Product. This warranty does not cover Products sold AS IS or WITH ALL FAULTS, or consumables (such as fuses or batteries). This warranty is valid only in the United States.
Proof of purchase in the form of a bill of sale or receipted invoice which is evidence that the unit is within the warranty period must be presented to obtain warranty service.
This warranty is invalid if the factory applied serial number has been altered or removed from the Product.
REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT AS PROVIDED UNDER THIS WARRANTY IS THE EXCLUSIVE REMEDY OF THE CONSUMER. SONY SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES FOR BREACH OF ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY ON THIS PRODUCT. EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PROHIBITED BY APPLICABLE LAW, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ON THIS PRODUCT IS LIMITED IN DURATION TO THE DURATION OF THIS WARRANTY.
Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, or allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitations or exclusions may not apply to you. In addition, if you enter into a service contract with the SONY Partnership within ninety (90) days of the date of sale, the limitation on how long an implied warranty lasts does not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may have other rights which vary from state to state.
I wouldn't bet on it, paragraphs 2 and 3, seem to imply after ninety days, there is no in home service. If you read it carefully, it is kind of misleading.
Here is the URL off of their website, just click on the warranty information.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...SKU=KV34XBRKIT
2. PARTS: In addition, SONY will supply, at no charge, new or rebuilt replacements in exchange for defective parts for a period of one (1) year . After ninety (90) days from the date of purchase, labor for removal and installation is available from Sony authorized service facilities or a SONY Service Center at your expense.
3. ACCESSORIES: Parts and labor for all accessories are for one (1) year. In-home diagnostic warranty service is provided during the initial ninety (90) day period for 19" (measured diagonally) or larger screen size through a SONY authorized service facility. To obtain warranty service, you must take the Product, or deliver the Product freight prepaid, in either its original packaging or packaging affording an equal degree of protection, to any authorized SONY service facility.
I am not a Sony basher, but even their warranty is deceptive, it contradicts itself....................................
| Originally posted by murphyb74 >>Well if you look at Sony's warranty over their broad range of their product line none of their warranty exceeds 90 days. I'm referring to labor... Sony XBR TV warranty covers two year parts & two years labor. |
SONY ELECTRONICS INC. ("SONY") warrants this Product (including any accessories) against defect in material or workmanship, subject to any conditions set forth as follows:
1. LABOR: For a period of one year (365) days from the date of purchase, if this Product is determined to be defective, SONY will repair or replace the Product, at its option, at no charge, or pay the labor charges to any SONY authorized service facility. After the warranty period, you must pay for all labor charges.
2. PARTS: In addition, SONY will supply, at no charge, new or rebuilt replacements in exchange for defective parts for a period of one (1) year . After ninety (90) days from the date of purchase, labor for removal and installation is available from Sony authorized service facilities or a SONY Service Center at your expense.
3. ACCESSORIES: Parts and labor for all accessories are for one (1) year.
In-home diagnostic warranty service is provided during the initial ninety (90) day period for 19" (measured diagonally) or larger screen size through a SONY authorized service facility.
To obtain warranty service, you must take the Product, or deliver the Product freight prepaid, in either its original packaging or packaging affording an equal degree of protection, to any authorized SONY service facility.
This warranty does not cover customer instruction, installation, set up adjustments or signal reception problems.
This warranty does not cover cosmetic damage or damage due to acts of God, accident, misuse, abuse, negligence, commercial use, or modification of, or to any part of the Product, including the antenna. This warranty does not cover damage due to improper operation or maintenance, connection to improper voltage supply, or attempted repair by anyone other than a facility authorized by SONY to service the Product. This warranty does not cover Products sold AS IS or WITH ALL FAULTS, or consumables (such as fuses or batteries). This warranty is valid only in the United States.
Proof of purchase in the form of a bill of sale or receipted invoice which is evidence that the unit is within the warranty period must be presented to obtain warranty service.
This warranty is invalid if the factory applied serial number has been altered or removed from the Product.
REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT AS PROVIDED UNDER THIS WARRANTY IS THE EXCLUSIVE REMEDY OF THE CONSUMER. SONY SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES FOR BREACH OF ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY ON THIS PRODUCT. EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PROHIBITED BY APPLICABLE LAW, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ON THIS PRODUCT IS LIMITED IN DURATION TO THE DURATION OF THIS WARRANTY.
Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, or allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitations or exclusions may not apply to you. In addition, if you enter into a service contract with the SONY Partnership within ninety (90) days of the date of sale, the limitation on how long an implied warranty lasts does not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may have other rights which vary from state to state.
I wouldn't bet on it, paragraphs 2 and 3, seem to imply after ninety days, there is no in home service. If you read it carefully, it is kind of misleading.
Here is the URL off of their website, just click on the warranty information.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...SKU=KV34XBRKIT
2. PARTS: In addition, SONY will supply, at no charge, new or rebuilt replacements in exchange for defective parts for a period of one (1) year . After ninety (90) days from the date of purchase, labor for removal and installation is available from Sony authorized service facilities or a SONY Service Center at your expense.
3. ACCESSORIES: Parts and labor for all accessories are for one (1) year. In-home diagnostic warranty service is provided during the initial ninety (90) day period for 19" (measured diagonally) or larger screen size through a SONY authorized service facility. To obtain warranty service, you must take the Product, or deliver the Product freight prepaid, in either its original packaging or packaging affording an equal degree of protection, to any authorized SONY service facility.
I am not a Sony basher, but even their warranty is deceptive, it contradicts itself....................................
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