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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have just started to run my YPAO since my SVS PB1 sub came today. The thing is, when it's running and does the test tones for the sub, you can barely hear the sub. I'm not deaf either, I really mean you can barely hear. I didn't even think the mic was gonna pick it up. My sub is about 11 feet away and it chose 14 feet. Seemed kinda weird since every other speaker was on the money. Anyway, I let it finish and started with "The Matrix." I played the lobby scene and it just didn't sound right. It seems like it's missing a huge part of the sub band. So, I threw in DVE to do some sweeps. I did a Dolby test signal for LFE and I could barely hear anything. I've gotta have the volume up around 0. I plug my CD player directly into the sub and I couldn't put it past 1/3. I have a really small room, 12 x 16, and after hearing what these subs can do, and plugging it into the CD, I don't think I should have it close to 3/4 when I'm listening to a movie or music or something. I've got my new Axioms in the back, old Infinities and an Atlantic Tech center that are being replaced with Axiom. I can't see how these three old speakers can outpace this sub. I guess the main thing I want to know is with the YPAO test tones. I have the sub on 1/2 gain and I can barely hear the tone when it moves to the sub. I am gonna try and hook up an old receiver, but that's gonna take a while. Would your take on this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I just switched receivers to my 7 year old Sony 925, without adjusting any sub levels at all and I couldn't even put the volume past 1/3. There's definately something wrong. I went from having the sub level on the Yamaha at half way between 0 and the max and could crank it to 0 on the main volume without being totally blown away (by the sub, the highs were sceaming) and then not being able to put it up to even a 1/3 on the ancient Sony. It's going back tomorrow and I don't even know if I'm gonna give Yamaha another shot. Back to the drawing board.
 

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I'm not sure what could be going wrong. you might go into the menus and manually set the sub level higher. I will say that when I demo'ed the 2400, the test tones were pretty loud on all speakers except the sub, but the sub's output could of been turned down since it was a smaller sub. before you return it, I would further investigate. It sounds like something is'nt set right, more so than the 2400 being a bad unit.

greg
 

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That does seem odd. My sub's distance is set dead-on, and the volume level is fine, although a bit soft for me. I increase it by 2db because I prefer the bass be a little on the 'hot' side.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
YPAO did detect the sub. I've got the sub to "yes", I've got the bass going only to the sub, the night setting is off. I really want to know from other people who used YPAO how load the test tone to the sub was. In my size room it doesn't make sense that the sub level should be +7 and the gain up 1/2. When I hear about someone only setting the bass to +2 and that's being hot, I'm confused. Also, how loud are you guys listening to movies?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I've got some other weird stuff going on with YPAO. First off, when equalizing the sub (on screen is says Ch=Swfr) you hear a couple of test tones, but then you hear a couple of test tones come from the left surround speaker (with the OSD still saying Ch=Swfr). Also, when I look at the equalizer settings after YPAO finishes, on one speaker it showed 10kHz - 5, then (on the same speaker) it showed 10kHz again, but with a cut of -2. Why would this frequency be duplicated with two different cuts?
 

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Erik, I have the 1400 and used the YPAO in a complete "Auto" mode and also in the complete "manual" mode and finally mixed and matched "Auto" with "Manual". When the YPAO was on full auto, it set my crossover to 160Hz. The end result in sound was not bad at all but I was somehow not comfortable due to preconcieved notions about the crossover being that high. So I adjusted the speaker size manually and the sub crossover at "THX" and let the YPAO do the rest. ( IMPORTANT: I set the EQ setting to PEQ in the manual settings for "Graphic EQ")

Like everyone else I was expecting the sub to sound really loud while being adjusted but all I heard was soft thumps and somewhat harder knocks, nothing unbearable. This time the resulting sound was very pleasing and the Bass seemed just perfect not boomy or muddy.

Also make sure you do the following as suggested in the manual. Set the sub volume at exactly half and the sub's crossover to maximum on the crossover dial of the sub. Next, adjust all speaker sizes manually and set the crossover frequency of the sub to your liking. Also "SKIP" the speaker size test in the YPAO setup and note your results. One last thing, you might want to also set the speaker distances manually and skip that test in the YPAO setup too. I am very happy with the YPAO using a Parametric EQ as this has made music and movies tremendously enjoyable now.
 

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Erik,


I also have two different settings at certain frequencies, this is NOT a malfunction. Also the sound while on the sub will generate noise from left speaker again not a malfunction.


Im not sure whats going on with your sub however. You may want to try a different RCA cable to see if theres a problem there. Also a radio shack meter would come in REAL handy, to check the levels maunally after auto-eq. Mkae sure your crossover on the pb-1 is all the way up as Nick suggested. Maybe you need a y splitter at the pb-1 to use the L/R in input. Finally if you have to go back to the store and get another rx-v1400 and if the problem doesnt go away, you can look to something in your system being the culiprit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the answers to those two questions. But I would really like to know why I've gotta have the sub level at +7 on the Yamaha and 1/2 on the sub versus my 7 year old Sony 925 with a sub level of 0 and the gain on 1/4? Is this just an aspect of the Yamaha? Then I get the same levels on the Yamaha at -10 as I do on the Sony not even up half way, and that's with the level adjustments stated above. How can't I see this as either a sign of weakness or a malfunctioning receiver?
 

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I don't see it as a sign of weakness or malfunction. The Sony receiver may have a higher cutoff frequency, or the amt of volts from the sub preout might be higher than the Yamaha's, thus the lower sub settings, this would require lower settings on the Sony. You can't expect all receivers to have the same settings on your sub.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Got another quick question about this receiver. How come when you run YPAO keeping the mic EXACTLY in the same spot and running everything else the same, you get different values? I'm not only talking about choosing different frequencies each time, but some times on one run it may be -4 for frequency x and the next run it'll be +3 for frequency x. How can that be. I've run this 5 times not moving the mic or changing anything and the EQ is always different. Less than half of the frequency "ranges" stay fairly constant throughout. What gives? How can this receiver be tailoring the sound for a given set of parameters and come up with different values with all things constant?
 

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Erik, are YOU standing in the same spot with each calibration? You may be blocking things differently each time. Is sometimes it at night with curtains closed? Traffic outside?


I'm just saying, if EVERYTHING in the room is equal each time, then I agree, the settings should be the same. I'm just wondering if they were each time with your room.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'm not even in the room when it calibrates; I'm in the only doorway just so I can see the results. There is no one home when I do it. And I've been doing them almost right after each other. Absolutely nothing gets moved.
 

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-4 to +3 is a major difference. A difference of -1 maybe acceptable but definitely not that wide. Not to nit pick or anything but is your mic mounted on a tripod or something solid? I will try and run at least three simultaneous tests tonight and post my results if I incur any different readings.
 

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When I get a chance, I will run YPAO a couple of times to see if the values change or not. If it does change drastically, then there is an issue.


Having your sub at +7 vs mine at +2 means nothing. We have different rooms with different subs with different amps.


Do you have Avia? If so, after running YPAO check the sub level with Avia and see if it is correct. If it is at the +7 level, then nothing is wrong. Maybe Yamaha's sub output isn't as 'hot' as your old Sony.
 

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Just a thought about why the measurements aren't consistent. The room has to be dead silent when you do it. Any noise - refrigerator, air conditioning, traffic, whatever - will mess up your measurements big time.


About the sub level, are you sure the Sony is right and the Yamaha is wrong? Old Sonys didn't follow THX (or any other) standards. Dolby and THX run the sub voltage 10dB "cold" to give extra headroom for monster stomps etc. without clipping the preamp stages. Turn the volume and the crossover controls all the way up on the sub and try the calibration again. There's no reason to only run it at half volume.
 

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I have run YPAO 3 times back to back and I get a small variations in certain freqs (maybe 2 db max difference). Sometimes a certain freq. will be eq-ed say 100hz for example and the next time I run it 100hz may not be touched but 80hz would be eq-ed instead. I stay in the same position and have the room quiet. I think it only takes very small sounds to change. I had my ceiling fan on and I know when I use a radio shack meter in manual level adjustment that the ceiling fan makes my meter fluxuate to much. Also when I positioned the mic on a hard surface (in the EXACT) location where I had it on a soft surface the eq's changed somewhat. What Im saying is that I think its REALLY sensitive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quote

"About the sub level, are you sure the Sony is right and the Yamaha is wrong? Old Sonys didn't follow THX (or any other) standards. Dolby and THX run the sub voltage 10dB "cold" to give extra headroom for monster stomps etc. without clipping the preamp stages. Turn the volume and the crossover controls all the way up on the sub and try the calibration again. There's no reason to only run it at half volume."


Thanks for the good explaination on that. Now responses like that are why I come to this forum (not that anyone's post is valued any less.) I do think that is true about the sub out voltage, but I think a lot also had to do with the sub being brand new. I played "Attack of the Clones," "The Matrix" and "Blade II" and it really seemed to loosen up a bit. Usually you've got to raise volume levels as you watch, but I found myself lowering it (especially after Blade.) So I wound up having the sub level at +2 and the sub gain at 1/3. Not sure if the Sony levels would've also gone down, but quite frankly I could care less now. As far as the YPAO goes, I do have the mic pretty stable and there was no outside noise, but the levels did start to stabilize themselves, with maximum differences at +- 2db. Why it chooses 3.2kHz one time and 3kHz another is beyond me, but I just figure I'll have to run it a bunch of times and choose which setting I like the most. Another thing I will admit, also, is I tried to mimic some of the YPAO settings with the graphic EQ and it didn't sound half as good as the YPAO. This receiver definately turned into more work than I was expecting, but I'm just gonna chalk the day up to breaking it. The YPAO mic probably needed to get warmed up, who knows. But for the price, I think I'm pretty content. On a postitive note, I got my first "if you keep that up you're gonna have to move out" with the new sub. That great reasurrance that you got your money's worth. Thanks to all for making this day a little easier and being a great place to vent!!!
 
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