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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, so I think I might be able to paint my walls a dark tan or brown, but the ceiling might have to stay white. The projector will be ceiling mounted anywhere from 11 to 16 feet (still deciding on screen sizes for my incoming W1000), and the top of the screen will be a touch lower than the projector (probably from 1.5-2.5 feet down from my 7 foot basement ceiling.)


So my question is this: What about some sort of hanging black curtain about 3-5 feet in front of the screen that *just* misses the top light path from the projector and hang it flush with the ceiling? Wouldn't this greatly assist with blocking any light that reflects back to the viewers eye from the ceiling? Maybe I'm missing something here, but if I can get the 'screen' low enough, I think you could have a 1-3 foot area that you could block that light bouncing off the ceiling...


What do you all think?
 

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that would do about half of it. the problem is, the white ceiling will reflect light back to the screen, and reduce the quality of the image.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabricator /forum/post/18134382


that would do about half of it. the problem is, the white ceiling will reflect light back to the screen, and reduce the quality of the image.

Understood. I do find the light from the ceiling back to me distracting however, so at least this might help with that part of it.
 

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OK Guys.....,


As Fabricator so deftly brought to point, the issue is more related as to what reflected light bouncing back "toward and onto" the screen will do to you image's contrast and color than anything else. After all, it's the image on screen you should be looking at most often, not the light show your ceiling is producing.



In this case, by virtue of the OP's statement, the Screen's top edge isn't limited to being 6'...12"....or even 18 " from the 7' Ceiling.


Oh No.....we can go 24"! I'll say from experience that if the Screen's edge is 24" down from the Ceiling, the Ceiling will have far less effect on the image than it is being given here.


If the OP can place the Screen at that height, and darken his walls, I don't think he'll be having any bothersome issues by leaving the Ceiling white....and "as is". Absolutely, setting the system up under that, as well as those previously mentioned stipulations is the first step, followed by some evaluation oriented viewing.


But if he does find the "light wash" from off the forward 4' of Ceiling that occurs during brightly lit scenes, is particularly obnoxious when experienced in a totally darkened room, then simply stapling up 48" wide bolt of Triple Black Velvet across the ceiling directly over the Screen will solve that handily, and the couple dozen 3/8" Flat Staple holes patch up later as easy as can be with one application of Spackle. A quicky "Rolled paint" touch up and whose the wiser...eh?


I won't tell.


....but if asked to testify, it was all your idea, naturally.
.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan /forum/post/18137113


OK Guys.....,


As Fabricator so deftly brought to point, the issue is more related as to what reflected light bouncing back "toward and onto" the screen will do to you image's contrast and color than anything else. After all, it's the image on screen you should be looking at most often, not the light show your ceiling is producing.



In this case, by virtue of the OP's statement, the Screen's top edge isn't limited to being 6'...12"....or even 18 " from the 7' Ceiling.


Oh No.....we can go 24"! I'll say from experience that if the Screen's edge is 24" down from the Ceiling, the Ceiling will have far less effect on the image than it is being given here.


If the OP can place the Screen at that height, and darken his walls, I don't think he'll be having any bothersome issues by leaving the Ceiling white....and "as is". Absolutely, setting the system up under that, as well as those previously mentioned stipulations is the first step, followed by some evaluation oriented viewing.


But if he does find the "light wash" from off the forward 4' of Ceiling that occurs during brightly lit scenes, is particularly obnoxious when experienced in a totally darkened room, then simply stapling up 48" wide bolt of Triple Black Velvet across the ceiling directly over the Screen will solve that handily, and the couple dozen 3/8" Flat Staple holes patch up later as easy as can be with one application of Spackle. A quicky "Rolled paint" touch up and whose the wiser...eh?


I won't tell.


....but if asked to testify, it was all your idea, naturally.
.


Thanks for the input. Let me know when you get that N7.5 formula for me =)


PS, the W1000 should be here tomorrow, but I only have my matte white screen or light tan wall to demo on, but I'll make due for now =)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
OK, so I had to return the W1000 with rainbow issues, so I'm probably going to get an LCD 1080p projector, which will most likely mean that the brightness will not be as strong. However, I'm also going to be able to paint my walls a darker tan or light brown... so we'll see how this shakes out.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourtytwoinch /forum/post/18137379


why is velvet better than some cheaper material like felt?


Looks better. Absorbs light better.


It's just plain 'Mo Bedder.



ohcello,


You'll do Ok. Get a Epson 8100 (1800 lumens) or similar LCD

make those walls become as dark a "Flat" sheen as you can.

Brown is better than Tan.


I'm working on a easy solution to your Ceiling issue....stay tuned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan /forum/post/18151805


Looks better. Absorbs light better.


It's just plain 'Mo Bedder.



ohcello,


You'll do Ok. Get a Epson 8100 (1800 lumens) or similar LCD

make those walls become as dark a "Flat" sheen as you can.

Brown is better than Tan.


I'm working on a easy solution to your Ceiling issue....stay tuned.

MM,


Thanks, but crucial update. Not only am I'm going to paint the walls dark drown (Duration Home matte, which is like flat, but washable), I just got the green light to paint the ceiling dark blue!!! Needless to say I'm quite happy. I will have a close to perfect cave working in several days time.


Based on this information, I might go with just a flat white wall for a while...but will that still have issues reflecting ambient light back??


Also, I'm 95% certain I'm getting the Viewsonic Pro8100, which is pretty darn bright. I will be shelf mounting it from 18.5 feet only about 110-120" wall, but this model is supposed to retain brightness pretty well zoomed out from long distances. (ProjectorCentral claims only 18% light loss from full tele to full zoom out)....


So at 18.5', and 120" onto my wall, the zoom is almost all the way out, but not all the way (zoomed out all the way, and you'll have a 111" image). According to Projector Central, this would give me 9 foot lamberts, but I'm not sure all their estimates are accurate.


What do you think? =)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok so here is what my room will be painted with:


Room 19' x 10' with the Screen towards the narrow end. Ceilings are about 7.5'.

Side walls - 'Kaffee SW6104' Light Reflective Value of 9 - (Dark Brown)

Finish will be Matte (Duration Home, so its very close to a flat sheen)

Back Wall - 'Sand Dollar SW6009' Light Reflective Value of 58 - (Light Tan)

Finish will be Matte also - Back wall is 19 feet from the screen and 7 feet behind the viewer so not a huge concern.

Screen Wall - Not sure yet, I might paint the whole thing with some Gray formula for now to test it out, but I will either keep it tan or paint it the dark brown

CEILING - 'Naval SW6244' Light Refective Value of 4 (yahoo!!) - (Very dark Navy Blue) - This will be a flat finish of course.


****


So while I originally was planning on a gray screen or wall, I might just use matte white with my new 'semi-cave' upcoming....


.....again, my only concern with matte white vs. gray is will ambient light still wash out the matte white screen, or should all the dark walls and ceiling cut down on this a good deal?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
OK, so I just ordered the Epson 6500UB, and this will be ceiling mounted about 11-14' away, zoomed all the way in or close to it for max brightness.... My wall, which i will paint some shade of gray, can handle up to about 120" diagonal with a few inches of space on either side to the side walls and maybe 18" to the ceiling.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello /forum/post/18168708


Ok so here is what my room will be painted with:


Room 19' x 10' with the Screen towards the narrow end. Ceilings are about 7.5'.

Side walls - 'Kaffee SW6104' Light Reflective Value of 9 - (Dark Brown)

Finish will be Matte (Duration Home, so its very close to a flat sheen)

If it ain't Flat......it will shine to some degree...but that might not happen if you chose the wrong paint solution because at 120" diagonal from 18.5 feet, even with a 1.0 gain surface (Gray or White) the best you'll get is 12 fl. even with a Epson 6500ub.


12 fl. is enough for a dark, dedicated room with effectively chosen room accouterments. (Colors, Lighting, Widow Treatments) But only if all such are in play to best effect.


No you'll need to have a Gray with a Gain of 1.2 or more. But of course that brings us back to the sheen you paint your surrounding surfaces.

Quote:
Back Wall - 'Sand Dollar SW6009' Light Reflective Value of 58 - (Light Tan)

Finish will be Matte also - Back wall is 19 feet from the screen and 7 feet behind the viewer so not a huge concern.

True enough. But "Tan or Brown" with a Blue?


If I was an "Interior Decorator type" I'd be throwing a hissy fit about now.
But I'm not and

still it kinda grates on my sensibilities having seen so many 'right" color combos.


If you gotta have Tan or Brown, then go to a Ultra Dark Brown Ceiling with matching Trim (Base/Windows in Satin)

Quote:
Screen Wall - Not sure yet, I might paint the whole thing with some Gray formula for now to test it out, but I will either keep it tan or paint it the dark brown

Your overlooking a great idea your already responsible for seeding. Paint the Screen Wall the same Color as the Ceiling, letting that dark effect wrap down around the Screen./Shade

Quote:
CEILING - 'Naval SW6244' Light Refective Value of 4 (yahoo!!) - (Very dark Navy Blue) - This will be a flat finish of course.

There has to be a better combo than Brown/Tan and Dark Blue.........



****

Quote:
So while I originally was planning on a gray screen or wall, I might just use matte white with my new 'semi-cave' upcoming....


.....again, my only concern with matte white vs. gray is will ambient light still wash out the matte white screen, or should all the dark walls and ceiling cut down on this a good deal?

If you have ambient Light that strikes the Screen...and its a Matte White surface....it will wash it out. The Walls & Ceilings being a correct color / sheen only bespeaks that they will not contribute to the distraction. But allow the light from a lamp or window to enter even a BLACKED out rrom, and with a White Screen, the Screen's image will suffer.


Here's a good suggestion. Go with a Medium shade Bluish Gray on the walls, and use that Dark Blue on the Ceiling. You could consider the Glidden Color "Misty Evening" for the walls. Years ago it was a popular "OCW" Screen paint (OCW = One Can Wonder) just prior to the advent of Behr Silver Screen.


Paint all the Walls with Misty Evening, but mix the Screen wall's portion as a Silver Fire 1.0, pull down the Ceiling Color as a "Trim" surrounding the Screen area, and hit the Screen wall with the image from the 6500ub.


You might just stop there, (...the Screen wall will look Black...believe me...) but adding some Black Velvet surface trim around the edges of the Screen area is a mighty nice touch.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello /forum/post/18183168


OK, so I just ordered the Epson 6500UB, and this will be ceiling mounted about 11-14' away, zoomed all the way in or close to it for max brightness.... My wall, which i will paint some shade of gray, can handle up to about 120" diagonal with a few inches of space on either side to the side walls and maybe 18" to the ceiling.

Ok...back to the Sheen of the Wall paint. At "...a few inches...." you had better make those walls as dark...and as Flat a color as you can or suffer the consequences. And there will be consequences otherwise, made worse by using ANYTHING other than a Flat. I can't make that any clearer.


Once again, Intelligent Design can come into play. Besides the Screen Wall, wrap the Ceiling Color down and around the two adjoining Side walls about 4' off the Screen wall. Maybe add an angle where the Top of the Angle starts at 4' and the Bottom hits the Baseboard at 6'. All you have to do is just "Mask" that ultra close in reflected light from the Screen with a really dark, FLAT sheen-ed surface and you can paint those Walls that lie outside outside that area with your Matte or Satin paint of Choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan /forum/post/18185951


If it ain't Flat......it will shine to some degree...but that might not happen if you chose the wrong paint solution because at 120" diagonal from 18.5 feet, even with a 1.0 gain surface (Gray or White) the best you'll get is 12 fl. even with a Epson 6500ub.



True enough. But "Tan or Brown" with a Blue?


If I was an "Interior Decorator type" I'd be throwing a hissy fit about now.
But I'm not and

still it kinda grates on my sensibilities having seen so many 'right" color combos.


If you gotta have Tan or Brown, then go to a Ultra Dark Brown Ceiling with matching Trim (Base/Windows in Satin)




Your overlooking a great idea your already responsible for seeding. Paint the Screen Wall the same Color as the Ceiling, letting that dark effect wrap down around the Screen./Shade




There has to be a better combo than Brown/Tan and Dark Blue.........



****




If you have ambient Light that strikes the Screen...and its a Matte White surface....it will wash it out. The Walls & Ceilings being a correct color / sheen only bespeaks that they will not contribute to the distraction. But allow the light from a lamp or window to enter even a BLACKED out rrom, and with a White Screen, the Screen's image will suffer.


Here's a good suggestion. Go with a Medium shade Bluish Gray on the walls, and use that Dark Blue on the Ceiling. You could consider the Glidden Color "Misty Evening" for the walls. Years ago it was a popular "OCW" Screen paint (OCW = One Can Wonder) just prior to the advent of Behr Silver Screen.


Paint all the Walls with Misty Evening, but mix the Screen wall's portion as a Silver Fire 1.0, pull down the Ceiling Color as a "Trim" surrounding the Screen area, and hit the Screen wall with the image from the 6500ub.


You might just stop there, (...the Screen wall will look Black...believe me...) but adding some Black Velvet surface trim around the edges of the Screen area is a mighty nice touch.






Ok...back to the Sheen of the Wall paint. At "...a few inches...." you had better make those walls as dark...and as Flat a color as you can or suffer the consequences. And there will be consequences otherwise, made worse by using ANYTHING other than a Flat. I can't make that any clearer.


Once again, Intelligent Design can come into play. Besides the Screen Wall, wrap the Ceiling Color down and around the two adjoining Side walls about 4' off the Screen wall. Maybe add an angle where the Top of the Angle starts at 4' and the Bottom hits the Baseboard at 6'. All you have to do is just "Mask" that ultra close in reflected light from the Screen with a really dark, FLAT sheen-ed surface and you can paint those Walls that lie outside outside that area with your Matte or Satin paint of Choice.



A few clarifications:


---I will be mounting this at 12', so I think can get up to 18FL as it will be just about all the way zoomed in.


---The paint colors and finished have been purchased and approved by the wife,...they will not change, and they will be an improvement over what I have now as I have duration home matte in a light tan on the walls now....I'm telling you it is very, very close to a flat finish...but we'll see when the chips are down either way. The screen wall will be the same color as the walls....dark brown.... no negoiating these points =)=) To be honest, I really don't care what colors the walls and ceiling are...this room has one function....it's very narrow and it's not used for any other purpose.


---I hear you on the walls being close... if they are too close, I'll just zoom out a bit until it's not an issue. If I have to have a 113" image instead of a 120", no problemo. Perhaps I can get away with painting the first 4 inches the flat ceiling color, but we'll see.


---So do you still suggest a Silver Fire 1.0 even if I have the projector mounted 12' instead of 18' giving me about 4-6 more FL's?? At 16-18FL, can I try and go for a .9 or .8 gain??


Thanks.... I know this is not all ideal, but still a huge improvement from light tan matte walls and a flat white ceiling.....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello /forum/post/18186616


---I hear you on the walls being close... if they are too close, I'll just zoom out a bit until it's not an issue. If I have to have a 113" image instead of a 120", no problemo. Perhaps I can get away with painting the first 4 inches the flat ceiling color, but we'll see.


---So do you still suggest a Silver Fire 1.0 even if I have the projector mounted 12' instead of 18' giving me about 4-6 more FL's?? At 16-18FL, can I try and go for a .9 or .8 gain??

Absolutely on point one, negatory on question 2. With the PJ on Low lamp for maximum Contrast, as well as minimizing the use of the Auto Iris feature, having a Gray Screen with 1.1 to 1.2 gain will be about perfect for your situation. Use the balance between reducing the PJ's Lumen output and having a positive gain High Contrast surface to shoot on will create a perfect image for your needs.

Quote:
Thanks.... I know this is not all ideal, but still a huge improvement from light tan matte walls and a flat white ceiling.....

I heard that! Your bound to still get some reflected light headed back toward the Screen, but a positive gain Gray screen will combat the effect of such better than any other alternative besides going with the different room colors that would themselves eliminate the problem. Ya said ya can't go there, so where your heading is the next best solution for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan /forum/post/18187080


Absolutely on point one, negatory on question 2. With the PJ on Low lamp for maximum Contrast, as well as minimizing the use of the Auto Iris feature, having a Gray Screen with 1.1 to 1.2 gain will be about perfect for your situation. Use the balance between reducing the PJ's Lumen output and having a positive gain High Contrast surface to shoot on will create a perfect image for your needs.




I heard that! Your bound to still get some reflected light headed back toward the Screen, but a positive gain Gray screen will combat the effect of such better than any other alternative besides going with the different room colors that would themselves eliminate the problem. Ya said ya can't go there, so where your heading is the next best solution for sure.

so If I could do flat finish on the walls the first 4-6 inches, would you still suggest the same gain/paint mixture?...or if I decided to zoom out to get more clearance from the walls?....


ps, thanks for all your input.... really amazing stuff...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohcello /forum/post/18187186


so If I could do flat finish on the walls the first 4-6 inches, would you still suggest the same gain/paint mixture?...or if I decided to zoom out to get more clearance from the walls?....

No matter what, if you want to use Low lamp mode and still have a vibrant image, you want to stay at least slightly above 1.0 gain.


Few who have set their hearts on a bigger screen are ever satisfied with going smaller.

Quote:
ps, thanks for all your input.... really amazing stuff...

Thanks. What's amazing is that some people actually bother to read any of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan /forum/post/18187965


No matter what, if you want to use Low lamp mode and still have a vibrant image, you want to stay at least slightly above 1.0 gain.


Few who have set their hearts on a bigger screen are ever satisfied with going smaller.


Thanks. What's amazing is that some people actually bother to read any of it.

Well I'm coming from a 92" matte white, so 110 might be 'good enough', but 120 would be ideal I admit. However, maybe you can explain something to me about econ mode.... is it preferable to use econ mode from an image quality perspective? Epson *claims* anyway that high and econ mode will get you 4000 hours either way.... So if I use high mode with .8 gain vs. econ with 1.1 gain (or whatever the equivalent would be), is there some advantage in picture quality with sticking with eco mode?


OK so spackled last night and I think painting starts tonight..... oh one more note... even if the wife does not want flat blue on the walls for the first 4-6 inches from the screen, I can always get a quart of the same brown in flat and use that for the first foot or so....and so I'll have the ultra low sheen new the 'screen'..... =)
 
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