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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When you use shutter glasses the eye see's the frame as a blur, then converges the eye to get better focus.


To do this the shutter glasses move at 4ms:60 Hz per eye, 120hz total.

120fps: 1/240 * 1000ms = 4.16666667 milliseconds


TV light up, the left shutter lights up

TV shuts off, the left shutter shuts off

TV light up, the right shutter lights up

TV shuts off, the right shutter shuts off


What I think would help is if the visible colors from the least visible to most visible, become visible progressively - from least visible to most visible when the shutter glasses light up.

This way when the eye first see's the image, and it see's a blur it see's the least visible colors, then the most visible colors become visible and so help the eye see the image as it converges.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 /forum/post/19579867


When you use shutter glasses the eye see's the frame as a blur, then converges the eye to get better focus.


To do this the shutter glasses move at 4ms:60 Hz per eye, 120hz total.

120fps: 1/240 * 1000ms = 4.16666667 milliseconds


TV light up, the left shutter lights up

TV shuts off, the left shutter shuts off

TV light up, the right shutter lights up

TV shuts off, the right shutter shuts off


What I think would help is if the visible colors from the least visible to most visible, become visible progressively - from least visible to most visible when the shutter glasses light up.

This way when the eye first see's the image, and it see's a blur it see's the least visible colors, then the most visible colors become visible and so help the eye see the image as it converges.

The blur is not the source of eye strain.

People over 50 are having all near part of a scene blurred and no one gets an eye strain.


Use Photoshop's blur filter on an image of choice and see if you get an eye strain from looking at it.


Mathew Orman
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm not intending to say that blur causes eyestrain.

What I'm saying is the eye converges. By gradually showing the visible spectrum from least visible to most visible, the converging of the eye to the frame being shown might be less stressful on the eye.

Since when the eye converges , the picture is becoming more visible.


To test my theory have a fast slideshow, not blur fast but fast enough you stress the eyes to see the pictures.


A.) Have one slideshow use the theory I made, where the visible colors become visible from least visible to most visible when each picture is shown.

B.) Then, the other slideshow shows all the colors visible the instant the picture is shown.


Test using 5 participants and ask each one which slide show was easier to watch. The TV will probably have to be a Plasma or CRT, or Laser TV, or DLP.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 /forum/post/19582097


I'm not intending to say that blur causes eyestrain.

What I'm saying is the eye converges. By gradually showing the visible spectrum from least visible to most visible, the converging of the eye to the frame being shown might be less stressful on the eye.

Since when the eye converges , the picture is becoming more visible.


To test my theory have a fast slideshow, not blur fast but fast enough you stress the eyes to see the pictures.


A.) Have one slideshow use the theory I made, where the visible colors become visible from least visible to most visible when each picture is shown.

B.) Then, the other slideshow shows all the colors visible the instant the picture is shown.


Test using 5 participants and ask each one which slide show was easier to watch. The TV will probably have to be a Plasma or CRT, or Laser TV, or DLP.

I have given you an example of a test.

Just choose your favorite stereoscopic image pair and blur in in photoshop then view it.

Oops, I forgot that you do not have 3D hardware yet.

Did you ever get RED/CYAN glasses and the magnifier to is if your Sharp monitor is RGB or RGBY?



Mathew Orman
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes, see the Link.


And comparing the test I made to your photoshop test I see my test is of a different nature where I use actual moving pictures and you use a static picture. So I think my test needs to be taken in different context than the one you mentioned, apples and oranges.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 /forum/post/19582252


Yes, see the Link.


And comparing the test I made to your photoshop test I see my test is of a different nature where I use actual moving pictures and you use a static picture. So I think my test needs to be taken in different context than the one you mentioned, apples and oranges.

Put a waxed paper over your screen and view you stereoscopic motion images and see if you get an eye strain.


Also I am making a stereoscopic movie using my Sony tween DSC-TX1 rig and will make one with stereo window of 32 inch for your Sharp TV.

My rig has adjustable convergence with scale in stereo window diagonal size marks. The smallest screen size mark is 22 inch and largest is 72 inch.


Mathew Orman
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I don't need to watch a blurry image to test for eye strain. The point of this idea I made is the eye converges after seeing the blurry image.

The convergence then can be a source of eye strain. Why? Iguana eye motion with the eyes looking in different direction for the same picture.


By the eyes converging as the visible spectrum become more visible, then the eye has more picture to see.

Link


The eye has two types receptors: ones that see in the lit up light, and ones that are used in shadowy dark.


Shutter glasses - When the eye see's light from the closed shutter not completely shutting out the light due to sync or bad timing etc, it has light from the brightest receptor going into the mind from both shutters eyes L+R, and this confuses the brain.


By the eye seeing the less visible spectrum first, it uses the receptors that see in dark light, and then the most visible colors become visible and the eye uses the receptors that see in the brightest light.


This way the eye switches the receptors it uses so the brightest receptor isn't used simultaneously in both eyes. when the picture switches eyes.

The eye first uses the receptor for the dark then the receptor for the light, and so as this moves between eyes the brain isn't confused.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 /forum/post/19583865


I don't need to watch a blurry image to test for eye strain. The point of this idea I made is the eye converges after seeing the blurry image.

The convergence then can be a source of eye strain. Why? Iguana eye motion with the eyes looking in different direction for the same picture.


By the eyes converging as the visible spectrum become more visible, then the eye has more picture to see.

Link


The eye has two types receptors: ones that see in the lit up light, and ones that are used in shadowy dark.


Shutter glasses - When the eye see's light from the closed shutter not completely shutting out the light due to sync or bad timing etc, it has light from the brightest receptor going into the mind from both shutters eyes L+R, and this confuses the brain.


By the eye seeing the less visible spectrum first, it uses the receptors that see in dark light, and then the most visible colors become visible and the eye uses the receptors that see in the brightest light.


This way the eye switches the receptors it uses so the brightest receptor isn't used simultaneously in both eyes. when the picture switches eyes.

The eye first uses the receptor for the dark then the receptor for the light, and so as this moves between eyes the brain isn't confused.

The convergence point accommodation quality is not the source of eye strain.


But if you say it is, then please provide an example of stereoscopic display geometry and content that will generate eye strain due to blurry convergence point.


Mathew Orman
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I used the parallax you used in your horse riding picture: link , it's a bit less parallax but I couldn't do any more without it being too much in my opinion.


So the picture is set to 22", like your horse picture. It's 1080p, 16:9, side by side left side first, 1 minute long.


I could have made the picture switch each second but I thought that was a bit much so I made it switch pictures each two seconds.

Maybe watch it two or three times in a row to see if your eyes get tired.


I was going to make one with a white background but that was a bit much too I thought, so I kept the background black.

Link
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 /forum/post/19585334


I used the parallax you used in your horse riding picture: link , it's a bit less parallax but I couldn't do any more without it being too much in my opinion.


So the picture is set to 22", like your horse picture. It's 1080p, 16:9, side by side left side first, 1 minute long.


I could have made the picture switch each second but I thought that was a bit much so I made it switch pictures each two seconds.

Maybe watch it two or three times in a row to see if your eyes get tired.


I was going to make one with a white background but that was a bit much too I thought, so I kept the background black.

Link

My brain just ignores it and all I see is doubled object, no fusion. If I concentrate on left top corner position then I can fuse the object but right position is ignored, not fused of doubled object.


There are examples of static full natural scene stereoscopic images with normal parallax limit and they will make your eyes strained with pain instantly.

http://www.*******************-usa.co.../eyestrain.jpg


Mathew Orman
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
 Link to new test file with exactly half the parallax of the previous file, but this picture changes at 1 per second.


I imagine if I used the parallax of the horse riding picture, which I copied for the test file I posted before but used slightly less parallax, it would have been harder to fuse.


So see if this new test makes the iguana eyes certainly noticable or not.



Edit,


The video changes frames at 41ms, and the Saccade the eyes can move is about 10ms. Just enough time to show the eye 4 images:1 frame - in 41ms, giving the eye Saccade time to move to see the frame however blurry it is when it does see it.
 

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The key issue with active shutter time sequential is polarization loss , also unlikely laser goes mainstream, and we have pdp and amoled too, that suffer . So i think (micro)mechanical shutterglasses would reduce eyestrain due the high transmittance . Microlens direct light into the mems structure to maximize optical efficiency. On-Off transition would look better than LC.


nVidia:


transparency (power off):31,9%

transparency ([email protected]) :16,5%

Ton :700µs

Toff (100-10%) :2,3ms


bit cauldron:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DU4u5Z133k


Transmissive mems values would be on a whole another level.


Quote:
A MEMS image array may be positioned adjacent to one or more lenses, so as to enlarge the image for viewing. A single lens, about the size of the image array, may be used to magnify the image, for example. Lenses may also be used to improve the fill factor of each pixel in the image array. Fill factor relates to the amount of light processed by each pixel. To improve the fill factor of the pixels, microlens arrays may be part of the MEMS optical system. Microlens arrays include hundreds or thousands of lenses, usually of equal size and shape, arranged into an array. A microlens array positioned adjacent to a MEMS image array may individually magnify each pixel of the image array. Some optical devices used for projection displays, such as transmissive liquid crystal panels, utilize microlens arrays to increase their fill factors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by icester
Also I am making a stereoscopic movie using my Sony tween DSC-TX1 rig and will make one with stereo window of 32 inch for your Sharp TV.

My rig has adjustable convergence with scale in stereo window diagonal size marks. The smallest screen size mark is 22 inch and largest is 72 inch.


Mathew Orman
I made some test clips and looked out through the red cyan glasses and saw crosstalk. So I ask you not to make me content to see through my red cyan or green magenta anaglyph glasses. I will go without 3D for a while to see when LCD can provide crosstalk free 3D Blu Ray. Maybe when you sell your crosstalk free glasses.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 /forum/post/19624378


I made some test clips and looked out through the red cyan glasses and saw crosstalk. So I ask you not to make me content to see through my red cyan or green magenta anaglyph glasses. I will go without 3D for a while to see when LCD can provide crosstalk free 3D Blu Ray. Maybe when you sell your crosstalk free glasses.

What clips did you make?

Can you post a link?


Mathew Orman
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Maybe I could. It is a clip from the royalty free redistributable cartoon Big Buck Bunny. The license clearly says I can redistribute the content and edit it. As long as I link to their copyright as specified on their website.


What do you think? Go read the copyright info at bigbuckbunny.org and post here to say if you think I can post their cartoon here.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 /forum/post/19626098


Maybe I could. It is a clip from the royalty free redistributable cartoon Big Buck Bunny. The license clearly says I can redistribute the content and edit it. As long as I link to their copyright as specified on their website.


What do you think? Go read the copyright info at bigbuckbunny.org and post here to say if you think I can post their cartoon here.

You have the Big Buck Bunny in stereo side by side?


Mathew Orman
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by icester /forum/post/19626167


You have the Big Buck Bunny in stereo side by side?


Mathew Orman

No, 2D to 3D side by side conversion.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 /forum/post/19626193


No, 2D to 3D side by side conversion.

You can post that all over the World.

It is your own creation and you gain automatic copyright.


Question is why would you use such low quality for testing ghosting?


Mathew Orman
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Where would I find better content that I could repost in this forum?
 
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