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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
 http://www.plycon.com/fans/papst80_12dba.htm


What do you guys think?


How do the CFM or dB add up if you run of 2 these side-by-side, both blowing in one direction (in parallel) vs. one blowing in and the other sucking out (in series) in a hushbox construction for HTPC or PJ?


I know it's not as simple as adding the CFM and dB together for 2 fans. Seems like they can cancel each other out somewhat depending on the configuration.


At $20 a pop, it's not cheap but Papst is well-known for their quality, quiet, efficient fans.
 

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Although I've never personally used one of these fans, I have followed quite a few discussions about them on the various computer enthusiast boards. The general concensus is that if you are lucky and get "good" ones, they'll be very quiet.


But Papst's QC apparently has become much worse over the past couple years, and many people report receiving Papst fans that are poorly balanced and vibrate quite a bit -- causing the computer case to also vibrate and thus producing more noise.


You might be able to work around that by decoupling the fan from the case in which you mount it... i.e. by using something like these (also available in 20 pc. bags from McMaster-Carr at half the price).
 

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Huey:


Series arrangements of fans provide for more pressure capability but not more flow. Paralell will double the flow if delta-P is the same for two fans as it was for one fan.


For PC boxes, not much to gain by putting fans in series.


DFA
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks, DFA. That makes sense. Maybe I'll stick with my $4 Panaflo's 24 CFM @ 21 dB. It's always been reliable.
 

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I've considered these for my Koolance water-cooled case, but I need 3 ($60). There have been a few competitors lately - where's the "sweet spot" WRT price/quiet? Any comparison reviews of 80mm fans?


While the Koolance is fairly quiet, it has 3 80mm fans on the top to cool the radiator. So the noise gets right in your face. It has "Riulian Science" fans - whatever they are. I can't find any info on these, so I don't know what their noise level is supposed to be. Yes, I could buy a sound meter - for more money than new fans...


Anyway, it would be nice to get even quieter (so I can't hear it even when the sound is off) but I can't see a $60 experiment. Can anyone guarantee the Papst will be THAT MUCH quieter, or is there a cheaper alternative?
 

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While on the subject of fans, I have some comments and observations (mostly subjective) to put forward.


In my HTPC I have 1- 80mm Pabst fan for CPU cooling (can't remember model # but it is the slowest one with speed sense), 2 - 60mm Panaflo's for case fans (also slowest speed models), and 1- 80 mm Verax with integral temperature control for my power supply.


I can't say that I am satisfied with any of them:


The Panaflo's are not available with speed sense output (they only provide a locked rotor alarm on the third wire). Also, they do not have discontinuous mounting holes. Two diagonal holes are fully continuous and the other two diagonal holes are semi-discontinuous: they are continuous holes with half the cylinder removed. For the type of soft mount, anti-vibe elastomer rivets available these days, discontinuous mounting holes are needed. Verax makes some soft mount rivets for continous holes, but they don't work well in my opinion: they slip.


The Pabst has speed sense and four discontinuous mounting holes which is good. But I think their noise claims are overstated. Some testers have found as much: . As stated above, one poster thinks there are manufacturing consistency problems with Pabst (I can't say for sure). My position is this, the Pabst does not seem (subjectively) all that quiet when compared to the Panaflo's and Verax's (in fact, the Verax wins on noise in my opinion). And why would such a great fan be so hard to source out? Seems like only a few sources are available in the 48 States for the Pabst fan.


The Verax fan is my favorite for POTENTIAL. Currently, it is only available with continuous holes and, as stated above, the Verax soft mount rivets for continuous holes work poorly. Verax needs to make a line of their fans with standard front an back flanges with discontinuous mounting holes. The other thing is that the speed sense signal from the Verax fans is non-standard: it is higher by a factor of 9. In other words, if the fan is in reality turning at 1000 RPM, it will show as 9000 RPM on at the display point. What application Verax is aiming at I'm not sure but obviously not the PC market. What I do like about the Verax is that it is aerodynamically designed to move smaller volumes of air quietly. I don't believe it is all that efficient and will never make a good "screamer", but that's not what we're after. If Verax would repackage the fan in a standard double flange case with discontinuous holes, standard speed sense signal and fluid bearings, they would have a hit, me thinks.


One thing I've noticed about the Pabst and Panaflo is that they have high torque starting circuits. If you stop the blade with your fingers, you will feel a strong "kick" every few seconds or so. Even at 50% voltage (6 volts), this starting circuit will not fail to start the fan (I have not checked the Verax to see if it has this feature).


I would like to see a roundup review and test of all the so called "quiet" fans. While this has been done, I would like to see the results normalized to a reference air flow value that all the fans are capable of developing within an operating voltage of 7 to 12 volts. By testing the noise level at a single, common reference air flow, a fixed basis of noise comparison is achieved. Except for the Verax, all the "quiet" fans are just regular fan designs turning at slower speed.


For me, the holy grail of fans continues. Anyone have any thoughts about contenders other than Pabst, Panaflo and Verax? I'm all ears, so to speak.


Regards,

DFA
 

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That 12db rating is exagerated.. according to www.silentpcreview.com "Perhaps quieter than the Panaflo, but not 12 dBA -- that is a major exaggeration. May have lower broadband (shhhh) noise but often exhibits ticking or clicking noise at any voltage that can be annoying. Not highly reliable in this regard, expensive. Dec 24/02"
 

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Harry:


Yes, my Pabst has the "tick / click" sound. This fan is perceived to be far better than it really is.


DFA
 

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I found that those Papsts need to "be broken in" before they become quiet. When I first got them I was very disappointed about the noise level. Then after a couple of days they became very quiet - I am only wondering why this would not be done at the factory for a product that sells at such a premium -.

My HTPC has 1x 119mm (CPU), 2x 80mm (case, PS), and 2x 60mm (case) - all Papsts and voltage reduced. - result is VERY QUIET and with acceptable temps.


Bottom line I can recommend those Papst fans.


For my home office computer I went with ½ dozen of cheaper Panaflos since noise reduction is not a key objective here.


____

Axel
 

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Axel has been more fortunate than myself. No change in noise level from Pabst 8412NGL from day one (clikity-clak). Note that my experience is consistant with SilentPCReview excerpted above by Harry Azol:".... often exhibits ticking or clicking noise at any voltage". In fact, I wonder if Pabst forgot to turn on the fan when they came up with the 12 dba sound pressure level! Also, running the 1 x 80mm Pabst, 2 x 60mm Panaflo and 80mm Verax all at 7 to 8 VDC.


I find the Verax is subjectively the best, but because of the continuous mounting holes and non-standard speed signal, I'd rather find something else. The NMB sited by brzez above looks promising. Brzez stated that he ordered five (5). Please post back here and let us know what you think.


The tip-magnetic (TMD) looks interesting but after some searching, it appears that they still only produce a 70mm version even after a year of production. Seems odd if they had something great on their hands.


Regards,

DFA
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DFA
..... No change in noise level from Pabst 8412NGL from day one (clikity-clak). Note that my experience is consistant with SilentPCReview excerpted above by Harry Azol:".... often exhibits ticking or clicking noise at any voltage". ...
Hmmm, on none of mine I ever heard a clikity-clak - "just" a whining sound.


I would need to measure but I even run them lower than 7 to 8V, maybe 5 or 6V - pretty much all there is when running on those Zalman Fanmates.


_____

Axel
 

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bbordner:


Go here to find info on your KoolLance RuLian fans:


DFA
 
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