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I just thought there might be some poop we could discuss regarding any DLP rumors for CES here .since the other forum has been created.
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I am all for that. I really would like to see what is going to be happening soon. I bought an SXRD 60" RPTV for the family room. In my theater I have an Immersive Virtuoso 720p. The SXRD has totally ruin my theater experience. No matter what I do it looks so much better in the famlily room.
Needless to say, I am not a happy camper.
Needless to say, I am not a happy camper.
All major DLP manufacturers will have 1080p single chip projectors ranging from $8-15k price range. Each will have a few features that the Ruby doesn't have such as Bausch and Lomb lenses assembled by Black Forest virgins and DLP chips hand slected by Texas highschool prom queens. We will all put on our self-congradulatory faces and declare that the SXRD challenge has been met.
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Quote:
Im going into the manufacturing business so I can have a work force of young virgins. You wont see me posting to much anymore. Ill be to busy conducting interviews
| Originally Posted by mdputnam assembled by Black Forest virgins and DLP chips hand slected by Texas highschool prom queens. |
Im going into the manufacturing business so I can have a work force of young virgins. You wont see me posting to much anymore. Ill be to busy conducting interviews
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No problem, Alan is more of watcher ... rumor has it.
I wish I had any more rumors but the outlook looks bleak IF most DLP manufacturers think they can compete with that popular SXRD projector (what's it called again?) at $15K+
The only exception is the Projection Design which actually offers dual bulbs and thus more light output supposedly than SXRD. That is something special and thus can be sold for a premium in the big HT installs.
IMO, the single lamp 1-chip DLP's need a reality check: you don't release an inferior product (in many ways) after your big name brand competition does for more money. It is like Kia introducing a competitor to the new Corvette that is slower and costs more money - you won't see many takers.
The only positive news is if we are really just seeing gamesmanship on DLP pricing from the various manufacturers. This has happened before were rumored prices are higher than actual prices at the time of release. So some of these $10K - $15K rumor prices might become $7K - $11K street prices in a hurry.
Honestly, somebody is going to have to step up. Sony has plenty of SXRD panel volume so they won't have any supply issues in the near future.
-Mr. Wigggles
| Originally Posted by rlsmith Alan, Remember: you can't advertise that they are virgins unless they remain so under your employ. |
I wish I had any more rumors but the outlook looks bleak IF most DLP manufacturers think they can compete with that popular SXRD projector (what's it called again?) at $15K+
The only exception is the Projection Design which actually offers dual bulbs and thus more light output supposedly than SXRD. That is something special and thus can be sold for a premium in the big HT installs.
IMO, the single lamp 1-chip DLP's need a reality check: you don't release an inferior product (in many ways) after your big name brand competition does for more money. It is like Kia introducing a competitor to the new Corvette that is slower and costs more money - you won't see many takers.
The only positive news is if we are really just seeing gamesmanship on DLP pricing from the various manufacturers. This has happened before were rumored prices are higher than actual prices at the time of release. So some of these $10K - $15K rumor prices might become $7K - $11K street prices in a hurry.
Honestly, somebody is going to have to step up. Sony has plenty of SXRD panel volume so they won't have any supply issues in the near future.
-Mr. Wigggles
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The long term product plans of TI and projector manufacturers have definitely been upset. It's difficult to completely revamp a product line and its associated cost structure overnight. It's clear that what we will see during this transition phase is single chip 1080p DLP projectors with niche features that the Ruby doesn't have such as advanced video processing, better optics, more light output, long throw lenses, etc. It will be up to the sales departments to convince buyers that these things are worth a price premium over the Ruby.
I think what should be more worrisome for DLP projector manufacturers is the competition from LCD. As this low cost technology improves and moves upmarket, the erosion of margins at the mid-level market will put a definite chill on profit growth in the future.
| Originally Posted by MrWigggles The only exception is the Projection Design which actually offers dual bulbs and thus more light output supposedly than SXRD. That is something special and thus can be sold for a premium in the big HT installs. IMO, the single lamp 1-chip DLP's need a reality check: |
I think what should be more worrisome for DLP projector manufacturers is the competition from LCD. As this low cost technology improves and moves upmarket, the erosion of margins at the mid-level market will put a definite chill on profit growth in the future.
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One minor correction. If the 1080p chip was only slated for low production quantities then you would be correct.
However, according to the news in the Rear Projection forum, the 1080p chip is going to be used in 2006 RP DLP's, so the volume is going to be high. With this being case, TI really doesn't care about the FP world that much anyway; it is and will likely always be a small percentage of their chip sales. TI isn't upset at all; they will provide a chip-set that will be low enough in price that 1-chip DLP WILL be able to compete with the Ruby IF the manufacturers want to.
It is the DLP Manufacturers that are currently upset. For Dan Miller to come on this forum and state with a straight-face how wonderful Marantz's new $15K 720p projector is going to be in light of the Ruby is just silly. (Dan this is not a slam against you.) He might have had some influence on price but is more than likely he's just the spin doctor who has to make the most of a bad situation. Sony has sent these companies scrambling; even your rich trust-fund average Joe knows that 1080p is better than 720p for his $$$$$$$ HT.
TI has always wanted more volume and it will be up to the DLP FP manufacturer's to shift their strategy to that direction.
-Mr. Wigggles
| Originally Posted by mdputnam The long term product plans of TI and projector manufacturers have definitely been upset... |
However, according to the news in the Rear Projection forum, the 1080p chip is going to be used in 2006 RP DLP's, so the volume is going to be high. With this being case, TI really doesn't care about the FP world that much anyway; it is and will likely always be a small percentage of their chip sales. TI isn't upset at all; they will provide a chip-set that will be low enough in price that 1-chip DLP WILL be able to compete with the Ruby IF the manufacturers want to.
It is the DLP Manufacturers that are currently upset. For Dan Miller to come on this forum and state with a straight-face how wonderful Marantz's new $15K 720p projector is going to be in light of the Ruby is just silly. (Dan this is not a slam against you.) He might have had some influence on price but is more than likely he's just the spin doctor who has to make the most of a bad situation. Sony has sent these companies scrambling; even your rich trust-fund average Joe knows that 1080p is better than 720p for his $$$$$$$ HT.
TI has always wanted more volume and it will be up to the DLP FP manufacturer's to shift their strategy to that direction.
-Mr. Wigggles
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I dont think this opinion is all that factual. TI's current pricing of chips is just south of $500 for 720p and $1100 for 1080p. Since TI doesn't have any control over production of products that use DLP they may be in for a big suprise when some of these companies choose significantly cheaper chips as their base technology. I highly doubt TI can shave 60% off their chip price.
I'm pretty sure Sony and Epson are willing to sell their LCD. I doubt Sony is OEMing their LCOS products yet.
Bottom line is DLP better figure out out to get their contrast numbers up as even LCD is about to pass them. Plus the other things they haven't resolved over the years. Again...TI has no control over this. This is TI's achieles heal.
| Originally Posted by MrWigggles TI isn't upset at all; they will provide a chip-set that will be low enough in price that DLP WILL be able to compete with the Ruby IF they want to. |
I'm pretty sure Sony and Epson are willing to sell their LCD. I doubt Sony is OEMing their LCOS products yet.
Bottom line is DLP better figure out out to get their contrast numbers up as even LCD is about to pass them. Plus the other things they haven't resolved over the years. Again...TI has no control over this. This is TI's achieles heal.
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Tryg said:
My head is not in the Sand.
LCD has a laundry list of issues they have resolved over the last 5 years. The only major thing left is longevity and vertical banding....and maybe some artifact issues with MLA. 1080p and this new generation may solve all these. the AE900 at $1500 looks amazing.
LCOS has really only suffered from Contrast ratio and now they are the leader. Price has recently become less of an issue. Downfalls include brightness issues and this is apperently solvable by Canon. Hopefully others soon.
DLP has not solved Rainbow, Dither, posterization, macroblocking and others in the last 5 years. They have made great strides in contrast and size of their units. Its funny 5 years ago people where choosing DLP because of lack or screen door. Today they have the worst screen door. I don't know how TI will get some of their "partners" to include some of these progressive techniques but they better soon. Yes there are some good looking units Sharp Optima Marantz Runco. I'm doing just the opposite of putting my head in the sand. I'm seeing other technologies that are getting a lot better.
LCD has a laundry list of issues they have resolved over the last 5 years. The only major thing left is longevity and vertical banding....and maybe some artifact issues with MLA. 1080p and this new generation may solve all these. the AE900 at $1500 looks amazing.
LCOS has really only suffered from Contrast ratio and now they are the leader. Price has recently become less of an issue. Downfalls include brightness issues and this is apperently solvable by Canon. Hopefully others soon.
DLP has not solved Rainbow, Dither, posterization, macroblocking and others in the last 5 years. They have made great strides in contrast and size of their units. Its funny 5 years ago people where choosing DLP because of lack or screen door. Today they have the worst screen door. I don't know how TI will get some of their "partners" to include some of these progressive techniques but they better soon. Yes there are some good looking units Sharp Optima Marantz Runco. I'm doing just the opposite of putting my head in the sand. I'm seeing other technologies that are getting a lot better.
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Tryg
You head is in the sand.
What are the only issues with the Ruby?
Im not taking a stand for DLP or SXRD as I will have my Ruby any day now and will have both but if you are going to be therough with your list of the troubles with DLP you might as well cover all the troubles reported with SXRD FP.
Every Ruby owner so far has posted they all have the brightness uniformity and color shading issues to some degree that have plagued lcos for years. You mentioned contrast has been improved and thats great. It will be all the nicer once the other common issues are dealt with.
You head is in the sand.
What are the only issues with the Ruby?
Im not taking a stand for DLP or SXRD as I will have my Ruby any day now and will have both but if you are going to be therough with your list of the troubles with DLP you might as well cover all the troubles reported with SXRD FP.
Every Ruby owner so far has posted they all have the brightness uniformity and color shading issues to some degree that have plagued lcos for years. You mentioned contrast has been improved and thats great. It will be all the nicer once the other common issues are dealt with.
Ruby issues:
Black level uniformity
White level shading (nothing like D-ILA had)
Misconvergence
Expensive bulb
Overly user friendly Sony menus and manuals.
Its a little hard to argue with these issues if you cant see them watching video. OK here's a huge warning to everyone. If you are planning on watching "Castaway" or "Finding nemo" AND you get to the spot in the movie when they do a full blackout scene, you might notice the corners of the image are a little brighter black than the center but for the hundreds of other movies that don't have scenes like this you shant worry. Also, if you are watching test patterns inside .5 screen widths you may notice color fringing on some patterns from misconvergence
Otherwise I'm willing to bet its the best projected image you've ever seen. Yes, the one of a kind 3 chip DLP in the Runco booth might look better with hand picked 1080p source material. But given this system doesn't even have a price tag, the Ruby at under $10k "may" be a pretty good deal.
Black level uniformity
White level shading (nothing like D-ILA had)
Misconvergence
Expensive bulb
Overly user friendly Sony menus and manuals.
Its a little hard to argue with these issues if you cant see them watching video. OK here's a huge warning to everyone. If you are planning on watching "Castaway" or "Finding nemo" AND you get to the spot in the movie when they do a full blackout scene, you might notice the corners of the image are a little brighter black than the center but for the hundreds of other movies that don't have scenes like this you shant worry. Also, if you are watching test patterns inside .5 screen widths you may notice color fringing on some patterns from misconvergence
Otherwise I'm willing to bet its the best projected image you've ever seen. Yes, the one of a kind 3 chip DLP in the Runco booth might look better with hand picked 1080p source material. But given this system doesn't even have a price tag, the Ruby at under $10k "may" be a pretty good deal.
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