AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
A question to this forum. And as a consumer, (y)our concern is exactly what? I am a bit ambivalent about what the "flag" would mean to most every consumer, including myself. It is "dreaded" because....?


Facts please?

Quote:
Originally posted by paulr
According to this story , Chairman Powell expects to have a ruling out on the dreaded broadcast flag by the end of this month.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,495 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by MisterDTV
A question to this forum. And as a consumer, (y)our concern is exactly what? I am a bit ambivalent about what the "flag" would mean to most every consumer, including myself. It is "dreaded" because....?


Facts please?
Thanks for asking Mark. I have wondered too. I have an DVI/HCMI compatible set and I don't see any draw back other than it MAY stop pirating. Other than that, I don't care either.


Wished I had thought to ask! DUH!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,175 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by foxeng
Thanks for asking Mark. I have wondered too. I have an DVI/HCMI compatible set and I don't see any draw back other than it MAY stop pirating. Other than that, I don't care either.


Wished I had thought to ask! DUH!
Don't the people you work for know? I don't think the question is how it will affect people with DVI/HCMI compatible sets, but how it affects those of us without DVI. If all this does is affect PPV or VOD, then it's no big deal, but if it affects all HD satellite, cable and OTA, we're in deep dew dew.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
So, who do I listen to? As a group (of different network related or independent) station owner, not sure of the REAL versus PERCEIVED implications. I am just looking for (informed) consumer summary. Think of this as an informal poll.


For example:

http://www.emedialive.com/r19/2003/decarmo0503.html


:rolleyes:

Quote:
Originally posted by Benji
Don't the people you work for know? I don't think the question is how it will affect people with DVI/HCMI compatible sets, but how it affects those of us without DVI. If all this does is affect PPV or VOD, then it's no big deal, but if it affects all HD satellite, cable and OTA, we're in deep dew dew.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,884 Posts
Mark -


My main concern is that it would come with a set of "robustness rules".


New receiver technology would have to be sufficiently hack proof in a way that would be approved by a committee of Hollywood companies. This would give Hollywood a veto power on new technology.


That sort of thing tends to slow technology roll out and increases the cost, complexity, and the risk of developing new receivers. The approval process also tends to be used to foster monopoly in a technology to a select few.


And of course it goes without saying that it would stifle new developments in PCHD cards like those I currently use in my HTPC to receive and record HDTV. Hollywood is not known for being computer friendly ( ;) ) and no computer reception or recording will likely be approved. So as a computer guy I especially hate it.


There are many other threads about this here but it is important to remember there is a BIG difference between agreeing upon what the consumer should be allowed to do vs. agreeing upon an implementation of automatic enforcement of those same rules. There are always unintended consequences and hidden transaction costs when you try to make enforcement automatic. Just stating the rules but leaving the technical details up to a Hollywood committee is a prescription for special interest legislation and disaster.


The DMCA did this to some extent regarding a requirement for Macrovision on DVD players (VCRs?) and it has been used by some to claim it is illegal to scale DVD's to more than 480 lines of output, simply because they can't currently provide Macrovision at resolutions greater than that. And yet a 480 line resolution is quite inefficient on some current HDTV displays.


- Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
Mark and Foxeng,

I am glad that the question is being asked, but not sure why you are really asking. I would think that you are aware that users that have DVI etc don't really have a problem, but if you are running things through your receiver do you have a receiver that can take the DVI cables? - spending more money?


And for people with an old tv that don't have a solution to watch program with the broadcast flag - you just say tough and go buy a new set???


Toshiba had for my unit promised to be able to upgrade, but have yet to deliver - we have just come to an agreement on how to solve this but I would not back down because I need the DVI for the future - others didn't have this promise up front and are not in that great of a situation


I don't have a problem with protecing copyrights artists and studios are in business to make money - if athletes can be overpaid so should artists. However, I don't like it when consumers that were ahead of the game get screwed. Make a solution that covers these people and I have no problem....if it is not there then compensate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,531 Posts
Quote:
Don't the people you work for know? I don't think the question is how it will affect people with DVI/HCMI compatible sets, but how it affects those of us without DVI. If all this does is affect PPV or VOD, then it's no big deal, but if it affects all HD satellite, cable and OTA, we're in deep dew dew.
The broadcast flag is for broadcast content. It isn't necessary or applicable for cable channels, which can be protected by other means.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,495 Posts
This is a hoot.


You complain that no one asks your opinion. Then someone who has a say in how this can be implemented asks for your opinion and you complain because they ask your opinion.


Oy Vay!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
What it comes down to for me is that I am currently watching HD content (on OTA and Sat) and I don't want anybody downrezzing the signal out of my component outputs.


Why? I have already spent a lot of money getting HD on my system and I don't want to have to replace my display(since it doesn't have HDCP) and spend even more money so that I can get a full resolution signal.


I am assuming that there are a lot of early adopters out there in the same situation?



ps. Please, let's not let this thread get ugly... Let's just stick with the questions asked so people looking at this can get an idea of what the "big deal" is? I don't really care that this has been discussed before. As far I am concerned the more this comes up the more people understand what the problems are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,175 Posts
Karl...I agree 100%. Many of us have spent un-Godly ammounts on our TV, HDTV receivers, etc., etc. . We have a right to know what our situation will be if this goes through as it is expected to. There must be millions of us in the same boat. DON'T we have rights?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,531 Posts
The broadcast flag doesn't have anything to do with downrezzing on cable channels.


Remember people, the broadcast flag is meant to deter the distribution of digital broadcast content over the Internet in the future - that means additional requirements will be imposed on products that integrate with a computer. It won't have any impact on what your current standalone box can do with analog output.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,733 Posts
what is teh purpose and scope of this flag.. is it at all similar to the flags in 5c?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by bfdtv
The broadcast flag doesn't have anything to do with downrezzing on cable channels.
So what you are saying is that the broadcast flag cannot be used to force a "compliant" hd receiver to downrezz on it's HD(analog) outputs?


Help me understand.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,827 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Karl Englebright
So what you are saying is that the broadcast flag cannot be used to force a "compliant" hd receiver to downrezz on it's HD(analog) outputs?
Bingo. The broadcast flag will do nothing to existing HDTV setups, regardless of whether they are analog-based or digital-based, nor will it have any impact on "compliant" equipment that hasn't been hacked...it's not a flag to enable downrezzing (image constraint) or blank out the picture (SOC). It's effectively a non-issue for HD viewers, both now and in the future...but as Tom presciently pointed out, it could deleteriously impact future device design/delivery (Word of the Day toilet paper rocks!).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by amillians
Bingo. The broadcast flag will do nothing to existing HDTV setups, regardless of whether they are analog-based or digital-based, nor will it have any impact on "compliant" equipment that hasn't been hacked...it's not a flag to enable downrezzing (image constraint) or blank out the picture (SOC). It's effectively a non-issue for HD viewers, both now and in the future...but as Tom presciently pointed out, it could deleteriously impact future device design/delivery (Word of the Day toilet paper rocks!).
I don't mean to question this assertion, but then what is the point of mandating the insertion of flags onto a digital stream if the receinving device will not limit output to "non-compliant" displays or devices? By definition, an analog output(such as a component outputs) would be considered non-compliant, I would imagine.


Here is a link to information from the EFF.

Link to EFF document


An interesting part of that document says the following:


"Currently, the group(BPDG) is contemplating a proposal devised by Fox, in which a broadcaster can insert a flag into a particular program to indicate that it must not be "retransmitted" (including recording onto removable media). The group's charter calls for development of an elaborate specification to ensure that "compliant" products won't make VCR-like recordings of such content, nor permit it to be shared with "noncompliant" devices. "


Here is the Fox proposal:

Fox proposal pdf



I'm not entirely convinced that this is not going to end up limiting resolution to "non-compliant" outputs such as analog (component/RGB) or non-HDCP DVI.
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top