AVS Forum banner

21 - 40 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Interesting to hear the different views and experiences... Thanks everyone for their input.

I do not claim to know much about audio electronics, but I do know that after extensively comparing the sound between the two different amp/DAC combos I have (one being my Nexus 6p smartphone, the other being a FiiO Q1 amp/DAC), repeatedly listening to the same parts of multiple tracks back to back, at the same volume levels, with only about a second or two between listenings (the time it takes to swap the headphone cable), to various types of music on my headphones (Audio Technica ATH-M50X), that there is absolutely a difference in sound produced by different amp/DAC combinations. The difference is undeniable. The warmth and sense of richness, especially in the mids, as well as clarity, etc are distinct between the different setups.

How would you folks who are saying the processor and amp don't make much of a difference explain what I'm hearing on my headphones?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Just to clarify, during the above test I was using the same media player on my phone (Poweramp), playing flac files, no EQ/tone adjustments, and simply alternating between a) plugging the headphones into the headphone jack on the phone, and b) sending the digital signal to the FiiO Q1 (also no EQ/tone adjustment) through the USB and plugging the headphones into that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
511 Posts
Steady on stallion! Clearly the red mist has descended because my post cut across your purchasing decisions. You can't believe it because you're clearly way over-estimating the contribution of the electronics to the final sound we hear.

Having said that, I can't believe that's all you took away from my post. Look at the system. What the $200 AVR gives him is: primarily the opportunity to consider a significantly higher calibre speakers; another octave of frequency response from a modest sub; greater connectivity and processing options; digital bass management (a way to "get the best out of" the speakers); adequate output; auto speaker setup; room EQ (optional) and the ability to go multichannel later if desired. All these things are off the table with the peachtree. Believe it?


Well to me the speakers (including subs) are the most important part of a system and explained why; and yet I can't give an example of a system that prioritises speakers to illustrate a point without you coming at me with "idiotic".

It's pretty simple when you're just sniping from the sidelines... how about you give us your $1500 system recommendation to rival the objective performance of the example I gave?

OK then... you’re crazy. Contemporary electronics are digitally controlled commodity items that operate with levels of distortion and deviation from linearity that are vanishingly low; well below what we can readily distinguish. Higher price may translate to improved measured performance, but that simply puts their performance even further below the threshold of our hearing.

Speakers/subs on the other hand, are a electro-mechanical device who's level of design, engineering, manufacturing effort and materials have a profound influence on quality of the sound we hear. Even some of the best speakers in the world routinely operate at levels of distortion that is 100's, if not 1000's of times greater in magnitude than the electronics driving them are operating at. With some simple maths this can be readily demonstrated by examining speaker THD+N charts here and (say) AVR test bench graphs here.

Therefore, if optimum audio performance for the dollar is the goal, expenditure should be heavily skewed towards getting higher calibre speakers, not expensive boutique electronics. Given a $9000 total budget, many members here could come up with system recommendations that would comfortably outperform your choices in most (if not all) objective criteria.

I'm not going to convince you of anything though am I? You're too heavily "invested" and locked up tight in your subjective logic box. Keep going though... this will be object lesson in how following rampant subjectivity and relying on audio mythology over technical knowledge results in how NOT to make purchasing decisions for optimum audio performance.

Big deal! You sat down to a casual, sighted, non level-matched audition of new equipment, therefore you've got no way of distinguishing if the "insane" sound was due to the processor or the inherent perceptual biases we are all subject to. In addition, due to our transient audio memory, you actually had almost no real memory of what the $40 Sony's sounded like with the previous processor.

Because on a finite budget (like the OP) compromises need to be made and that combo will yield far better objective performance than the other way around. (By the way, your choice of descriptor for the AVR speaks to the bias you harbour.)

Not only is that a baseless assertion, it's complete nonsense. "(D)ull and muffled" will be a characteristic of the speakers, their placement and their interaction with the room, NOT solid state electronics.

The OP has a ~$1000 budget. A $600 peachtree will limit him to budget speakers; a proven recipe for sub-optimal audio performance for the dollar.

I do, and you've just given yourself a uppercut because believing audiophile myths means you'd be dead wrong.

According to B&W's own specs, the 805 D3's (88dB/2.83V/1m; 8Ω nom/4.6Ω min) are an easier speaker to drive than the CM1 S2's (84dB/2.83V/1m; 8Ω/4.0Ω min) The 805 D3's will need 1.6X less voltage (2.5X less power) to play at any given SPL than the CM1 S2's and draw correspondingly less current. Additionally, any slight difference (if any) the peachtree may exhibit will be totally swamped by the performance advantage the 805 D3's have over the CM1 S2's. It's a self-serving consumer audio myth that expensive speakers must only be hooked up to similarly expensive electronics. The B&W 800 Diamonds are excellent speakers, but they have no idea how much was paid for the amp feeding them voltage and current. Only us humans do, and we're subject to several perceptual biases.


Reliability, warranty, pre-out voltage, number of channels, more sophisticated auto-EQ... any number of considerations that have nothing to do with the native sound of the unit.

No it's bragging rights, brand caché and treating yourself to some audio jewellery. But if it's at the expense of better speakers, it's just a dumb purchasing decision. There's a sucker born every minute.

... in the digital domain; a mature technology that is - for all intents and purposes - a "perfect" process, regardless of how much the equipment costs.

More assertions based on myth. Assigning meaningless subjective descriptors to the supposed "sound" of meticulously engineered (or any) power amps is a subjective audiophile construct supported by those who don't/won't have a basic grasp of the science of human perception.
I feel bad for how much time you spent writing this up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,025 Posts
I would guess that in the vicinity of 100w/ch to 8 ohms is something of the sweet spot. The best blend of Quality/Money/Power. A good ~100w/ch to 8 ohms amp will drive all but the most difficult speakers.

Personally, I think for 140w speakers costing $500/pr, a 350w/ch amp is a bit of overkill. Though if you can afford it, 200w/ch to 8 ohms wouldn't be out of the question. But in reality, ~100w/ch to 8 ohms would be sufficient.

There is a legal standard for representing the power on Hi-Fi amps set by the Federal Trade Commission. That standard is a full range frequency sweep to an 8 ohm load. This is so all amps can be fairly compared.

4 ohm power rating of an amp is something of an illusion. The limiting factors for an amp is headroom or voltage ceiling. Simply drawing more current and thereby drawing more power does not raise that voltage ceiling. For a 100w/ch amp, the voltage rails are about 45 volts. And that voltage is not linear, as there is a Square factor to power. So, calculating the RMS voltage for 50w is about 20 volts. However, 100w is only 8 volts more at 28v. Small changes in voltage equal huge changes in power.

Though some will argue the point, the quality of the watts (actually the amp) makes a difference. There are high end amps with modest power that drive very strongly, and there are low end amps with seeming high power that don't drive all that well.

I suspect the 100w/ch in this amp -

Yamaha R-S202 - 100w/ch - $150 -


http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RS202/Yamaha-R-S202.html?tp=47041

will not hold up as well as the 100w/ch in this amp -

Yamaha AS701 - 100w/ch - $800 -


http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022AS701S/Yamaha-A-S701-Silver.html?tp=34948

So, when you run 4 ohm speakers, you don't really have more power, rather you are simply consuming more current which results in more power being consumed. But the amp is still limited by the power supply voltage rails; that doesn't change, and if it does change, it goes down.

The Peachtree Audio Nova 150, has 150w/ch to 8 ohms and cost in the $1500 to $1600 price range. That's more than enough. While the Nova 150 does have a DAC, there other full featured amps that you could consider. If that amp, the features, and the price appeal to you, then it should be more than enough.

But I think we need a clear statement of budget?

Here is an alternative. If you want Amps with ever climbing power and an ever climbing price tag, check this link -

Post #5 -

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/173-2-channel-audio/2531265-looking-2-channel-amp-suggestions.html#post45697625

You need to determine the features you want, and draw the line at a particular price, then see what is available at that price.

Myself, I would love to have the Parasound P5 Pre-Amp combined with the Parasound A23 (125w/ch) Power Amp ($2090).

Using the Parasound A23 as an example, 125w/ch to 8 ohms translates to 225w/ch to 4 ohms. So you can see any 80w/ch to 100w/ch, assuming good quality, is not going to have a problem with the ELAC speakers.

Again, simply illustrating 8 ohm power vs 4 ohm power, the Yamaha AS501 is rated at 85w/ch to 8 ohms and about 120w/ch to 4 ohms.

So, you really don't need a crazy amp. I'm guessing anything between 60w/ch and 100w/ch to 8 ohms is more than enough. Depending on how sanely you use your system, I really can't see any need for anything over 100w/ch to 8 ohms.

The Elac Uni-Fi UB5 has a - maximum power input: 140 watts - implying that any good amp between 50w and 150w would have no problem driving it, assuming a reasonable standard in an amp.

The limiting factor is your budget, and the list of features you need. Assuming enough budget, there are many reasonably high power amps to choose from.

One last word of advise, relating to available Power -

It is never over-powered or under-powered amps that destroy speakers; it is always the guy running the Volume Control. Don't be that guy.

Steve/bluewizard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,356 Posts
....No it's bragging rights, brand caché and treating yourself to some audio jewellery. But if it's at the expense of better speakers, it's just a dumb purchasing decision. There's a sucker born every minute.

... in the digital domain; a mature technology that is - for all intents and purposes - a "perfect" process, regardless of how much the equipment costs.

More assertions based on myth. Assigning meaningless subjective descriptors to the supposed "sound" of meticulously engineered (or any) power amps is a subjective audiophile construct supported by those who don't/won't have a basic grasp of the science of human perception.
Savage! :D

I feel bad for how much time you spent writing this up.
Probably not as badly as I feel for you having spent $8000+ on the audio equivalent of pixie dust.
 
  • Like
Reactions: natchie and Alan P

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,025 Posts
GIEGER has made some fair points. Though I don't necessarily agree, they are fair.

There is always a case to be made for an AVR. Very high in features, and generally very high in power. There is some economic sense there.

But I'm of the view that for a fixed amount of money, the more you get ... the less you get. That is, 2 amps for $500 yield better amps than 7 amps for the same $500, and then consider all the extra feature that come with an AVR - Setup, EQ, Streaming, etc... - those things aren't free. The more you get for a fixed amount of money ... the less you get. Adjusted slightly for economics of scale.

My personal choice is for a Stereo amp, but equally, for those on a budget trying to maximize the feature set, there is a strong and real case to be made for an AVR. Just not a strong enough case to sway me personally.

The OP (original poster) has chosen his speakers, and is now seeking an amp to use with them. As a broad generalization, you budget about half the cost of the speakers for the amp. Though that doesn't hold true when you are buying on the far ends of the spectrum.

The implication is that he would be looking for a roughly $250 to $350 amp to match his speakers. Though I think reasonably up to about $500. Still, to each his own. If he feels a $1000 or $1500 amp will serve him better, that purely up to him. I currently have a $1600 amp on $1000 speakers.

In all honesty, I think any good amp in the roughly $350 to perhaps $1500 range with power in the roughly 75w/ch (8 ohms) to 125w/ch range will have him set.

Remember the 140w power rating is not an ideal, it is a limited. Though you can certainly go over that limit on the assumption that you will never sustain full power on your amps.

If we assume he has roughly a $500/pr to $600/pr budget for speakers, and roughly a $500 to $600 budget for an amp, that gives us a working range.

Though I'm not sure the OP has given a clear statement of budget. I think we are all just working off Implications. A clear statement would be more helpful.

Then we get to desired Features. An AVR is very high featured. In a Stereo amp, most likely the best you can do is get an amp with a DAC. Though there are a few Stereo Amps that have a DAC and Network Streaming capability.

Harman Kardon HK3770 Network Stereo Receiver, 120w/ch, Network Streaming, Bluetooth, DAC - $450 -

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_532HK3770/Harman-Kardon-HK-3770.html?tp=47041

Yamaha RN602 Network Stereo Receiver, 80w/ch, Network Streaming, Bluetooth, DAC - $600 -

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RN602/Yamaha-R-N602.html?tp=47041

Pioneer SX-N30 Elite Network Stereo Receiver, 80w/ch, Network Streaming, Bluetooth, DAC - $600 -

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1207217-REG/pioneer_sx_n30_network_stereo_receiver.html

In a basic high value integrated amp with DAC and 85w/ch to 8 ohms -

Yamaha AS501, 85w/ch, DAC - $550 -


http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022AS501S/Yamaha-A-S501-Silver.html?tp=34948

Likely if he can get a Peachtree for under $1000, that is a bargain, and certainly an appealing amp, assuming it does what needs to be done.

The more precisely the OP can define his requirement, the more precisely we can make recommendations.

Steve/bluewizard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
Thanks for the input, bluewizard. I'm definitely wanting to stay around or under $1k. I'm eyeing a used Peachtree nova125se for $600, which would put me at $1100 or so, and definitely don't want to go over that. Ideally I'd like to spend a little less, but not if it would result in a major sacrifice in audio quality - plenty of audiophile reviews seem to suggest the Peachtree has great audio quality, better than most AVRs. I definitely want something with a DAC, and digital coax, optical and USB inputs. The Denon S700W, as someone else suggested, is interesting ($229 refurbished), though I'm not interested in the extra channels nor many of the other features it offers. Just seems to be decent power with the features I need for a good price, but I wonder if it'll have the same audio quality as the Peachtree. I have some doubts that it won't - what are your thoughts on this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
I just remembered i read the review of these speakers and they recommended going with beefier amp. Please have a read and don`t kill the messenger. :)

The Uni-Fi UB5s were better than the B6, but the Uni-Fi UB5s still seemed to be holding back, so we hooked up a pair of Klipsch RP-160M speakers, and they brought the Stones back in full force! Dynamics were much more alive over the RP-160Ms. Continuing with Battles' "Gloss Drop" prog rock album, the Uni-Fi UB5s sounded fuller and warmer, but the RP-160Ms rocked harder, so the sound was brighter and more exciting. The Uni-Fi UB5s had more weight and low-end punch, but missed too much of the RP-160M's dynamics. What was going on?

After a bit of head-scratching, we noted a couple of things in the Uni-Fi UB5's specifications that might be responsible for the speaker's finicky tastes for amplifiers. Like the Pioneer SP-EBS73-LR, which shares almost identical electrical specifications, the Uni-Fi UB5 has unusually low sensitivity, just 85 dB at 2.83 volts (the Klipsch RP-160M's spec is much higher: it's 96 dB). That indicates the Uni-Fi UB5 needs a lot more power to play as loud as most speakers.

Another thing: the Uni-Fi UB5's nominal impedance is listed at 4 ohms, with 3.4 ohms minimum. That's lower than average, and low-impedance speakers demand more current (amperes) from the amplifier/receiver than regular 8-ohm speakers. ELAC recommends 40- to 140-watt-per-channel amps, so our 80-watt-per-channel NAD should have been more than adequate.

The Klipsch's advantage faded with more sedate music. Listening to the Punch Brothers "Phosphorescent Blues," the band's mandolin, banjo, fiddle, upright bass and vocals sounded far more natural over the Uni-Fi UB5s. The RP-160M was too lean and forward, and soundstage was flatter, more two-dimensional.

Finally, we put the NAD C 356BEE amp aside and hooked up a 200-watt-per-channel Rotel RA-1592 stereo integrated amp, and replayed some of the same music over both the Uni-Fi UB5 and RP-160M speakers. Both sounded better, but the Uni-Fi benefited more from the Rotel's power reserves. The ELAC's dynamics were now more viscerally felt, and our reservations about the speaker's punch and energy all but vanished.

Our respect for the Uni-Fi UB5 jumped a few notches, and connected to the more powerful amp it sounded like a much more expensive speaker. Stereo imaging and dimensionality were excellent, easily ahead of the RP-160M and other speakers in the Uni-Fi UB5's price class. It seemed the Uni-Fi UB5 could do no wrong.


http://www.cnet.com/products/elac-uni-fi-ub5/2/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,025 Posts
Thanks for the input, bluewizard. I'm definitely wanting to stay around or under $1k. I'm eyeing a used Peachtree nova125se for $600, which would put me at $1100 or so, and definitely don't want to go over that. Ideally I'd like to spend a little less,...
Here is an amp on the high side of your budget that has Optical, Coaxial, and USB-PC inputs.

Yamaha AS801, 100w/ch, DAC - $899 -

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022AS801S/Yamaha-A-S801-Silver.html?tp=34948

Also, note that with a few less features, the Yamaha AS701 (100w/ch, DAC, $799) is about $100 less.

Also, if you want Network Streaming, I listed 3 very nice Stereo Receivers with 80w/ch (8 ohms) in the range of $450 to $600. All have Network Streaming from local storage and from the Internet.

Harman Kardon HK3770 - $450
Yamaha RN602 - $600
Pioneer SX-N30 Elite - $600


If streaming is important, these are good option within your budget range.

... plenty of audiophile reviews seem to suggest the Peachtree has great audio quality, better than most AVRs.
I don't think anyone can deny the quality of Peachtree amps. I would expect them to sound pretty good, and they have a retail price well above your budget, so if you can get one for about $600, that is a deal.

BUT... you are weight a used amp where you are on your own against a new amp with dealer support and manufacturer's warranty. Though that is a decision you will have to make on your own. Whether the trade-offs give you better value.

I definitely want something with a DAC, and digital coax, optical and USB inputs. The Denon S700W, as someone else suggested, is interesting ($229 refurbished), though I'm not interested in the extra channels nor many of the other features it offers. Just seems to be decent power with the features I need for a good price, but I wonder if it'll have the same audio quality as the Peachtree. I have some doubts that it won't - what are your thoughts on this?
I think I made it clear that I lean away from AV Receivers. No need to buy something you won't use. Though if at some point in the future you see Surround Sound on the horizon, an AVR now might be worth considering. But ... not for me; I'm sticking with Stereo, which serves me very well for movies as well as music.

There is a place used by forum members that has B-Stock Items at pretty nice discounts. Worth checking out -

Accessories4Less -

Stereo Receivers -


http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/stereoreceivers/home-audio/receivers-amps/stereo-receivers/1.html

Stereo Integrated Amps -


http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/integratedamp/home-audio/receivers-amps/integrated-amps/1.html

Accessories4Less
has the Yamaha AS801 for $699 in B-Stock -

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamas801bl/yamaha-a-s801-stereo-integrated-amplifier-w/built-in-dac-black/1.html

The Yamaha AS501 (85w/ch) runs about $399.

The Yamaha RN602 Network Receiver (80w/ch) for $399.

These come with warranty. High value - low risk.

In an AV Receiver, you can find value in last year's models. Here is a $1000 Denon for $599 -

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX3200/Denon-AVR-X3200W-IN-Command.html?tp=179

Again, that doesn't appeal to me, but I don't insist that everyone follow my lead.

Steve/bluewizard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,025 Posts
I just remembered i read the review of these speakers and they recommended going with beefier amp. Please have a read and don`t kill the messenger. :)

The Uni-Fi UB5s were better than the B6, but the Uni-Fi UB5s still seemed to be holding back, so we hooked up a pair of Klipsch RP-160M speakers, and they brought the Stones back in full force! Dynamics were much more alive over the RP-160Ms. .... The Uni-Fi UB5s had more weight and low-end punch, but missed too much of the RP-160M's dynamics. What was going on?

...
http://www.cnet.com/products/elac-uni-fi-ub5/2/
That's like saying that the sun shines in the day time. The ELAC speakers are reputed to be on the laid-back side. The Klipsch are reputed to be on the brighter more forward side, so anyone could have predicted that the Kipsch would sound more forward and more dynamic. The Klipsch is also a speaker with a higher sensitivity rating.

But, this does not tell us that the ELAC needs more power, only that it is voice a little differently than the Klipsch, and that it is a bit less sensitive, which anyone could have anticipated.

If you want speakers with a bit more presence, then Monitor Audio, Dali, Tannoy, and others would be considerations. If you want speakers that are a bit more laid-back -Elac, Wharfedale, B&W, Martin Logan Motion would be considerations.

Laid-Back or Forward is not a quality judgement, each appeals to someone, It is just different voicing. A different opinion of how a speaker should sound.

While some will claim the Klipsch has more dynamics, others will claim it is more harsh and fatiguing, and they are both right under the right circumstances. As I said before, Klipsch is not a speaker you want to use in an acoustically bright room.

I think you can choose any piece of equipment, regardless of what it is, and you will find just as many people who love it as you will people who hate it. That's why they make so many different types of equipment.

However, that is neither here nor there. It seems the OP has bought the ELAC Uni-Fi UB5, so that is what we have to work with.

The goal now is to find a suitable amp, in the very roughly $600 range.

Steve/bluewizard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #32
Thanks again for all of your input. Just to clarify, I haven't actually purchased the speakers, I'm just very strongly leaning towards them as my speaker of choice (so many rave reviews, including the CNET review).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,276 Posts
85db efficiency is very inefficient, IMO. It would take three times the amp power to get them to same level as a 94dB efficient speaker, for example.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,836 Posts
85db efficiency is very inefficient, IMO. It would take three times the amp power to get them to same level as a 94dB efficient speaker, for example.
But an 85 dB sensitivity rating is the norm for 2-way speakers with a 5-1/4 driver. Since I select speakers based upon the sound qualities that I’m looking for, I tend to worry about sensitivity ratings in relationship to my gear already on hand (or what I’m willing to buy) and the volume levels I want to attain. If I find a speaker with a higher sensitivity rating and don’t like the sound. What’s the point? And for whatever reason (I don’t have a clue as to why), the speakers I’m sonically attracted to and have purchased happen to have fairly low sensitivity. I wonder if there is a pill for that :).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,499 Posts
I wont argue with above points, just sharing my 2 cents.

marantz avr did x spl w/out distortion
nad amp of same watts did y spl which was 3db higher than x
2x nad amp in bridged mode did 6db higher than x

sound quality is objective but the 1x nad amp was a small % better than avr

this my 2 cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
Dayton Audio APA100

I decided to start with a cheap, basic amp to see if I was happy with the sound before jumping on something more expensive. I came across this CNET review of a $100 amp, the Dayton Audio APA100, which is only 75wpc into 4 ohms, and figured at that price I didn't have too much to lose. Turns out it sounds great with the UB5s, and seems to have plenty of power - I've yet to turn the volume knob above 50% for more than a few seconds. Powerful bass and crystal clear highs with great detail and separation. Very happy with the set up, and glad I didn't spend a ton on a fancy amp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,464 Posts
My father had McIntosh tube amps...1950's era stuff. Asked him why and he said sometimes I like over designed, overbuilt and wildly over engineered stuff...don't need it, but it is really cool--just because I'm old does not mean I don't like cool stuff! He would sit in the basement and bias the tubes, hook up his o-scope and meters to the thing as audio was his hobby. Hobbies take work so the Altecs he built himself (common in the 50's)
Dad had exactly the same kind of setup; Mac tube amps each powering a Voice of the Theater in custom cabinets he bought in Colombia.

Each speaker was the size of a small desk and would put incredible volumes with 30 watts/channel.

Once, in Belgium, as a teen, I was home alone with some friends cranking out some ELP at max volume with the 20 feet of sliding glass doors open.

This very nice Belgian gentleman rang the bell and asked me to turn it down as he could hear them...a 1/4 mile away! :D

Those speakers were donated to the University of Miami music dept when he retired them for some DQ10s and moved on to solid state Mac amps and a hybrid Mac preamp.

My brother gave those away to a friend! :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,464 Posts
I had some inefficient 4 ohm B&W CM1 Concept 90s that my daughter now has that never ever gavee my NAD 7250PE 50 watt amp any trouble whatsoever.

Back in the day I bought a NAD 770 AVR that had better specs than the 7250PE and on a few, very rare occasions, it would shut down during an especially loud whiz bang move at VERY high volumes despite having a built in fan.

Never damaged the speakers or the amp when the amp shut down due to thermal overload.

That $2500 AVR (in today's money) eventually failed and I replaced it with a $500 or so Denon AVR 1912 about 10 years ago.

Still have the Denon, works great, never once shut down driving the CM1 Concept 90s.

I'll never buy another NAD AVR ever again.

The 7250PE though is still in use daily for music in my secondary system.

I think the fear that a modern mid priced AVR can't handle something rated near 4 ohms even at high SPLs is misplaced.

Glad the OP found a nice inexpensive solution for his speakers.
 
21 - 40 of 50 Posts
Top