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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I am very close to select one of following receiver as my entry in mid-fi arena.


Denon-4306, Pio 84TXVi and Yamaha VX-2700


I did notice looking at some old reviews of Yamaha that the power rating specs are misleading. Denon ratings are decent in those old reviews. Couldn't find anything about Pio power ratings. Can anyone comment on this?
 

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Some Yamaha receivers are conservatively rated; see the Audioholics RX-V659 review. Some criticisms of amp ratings are due to an attempt to see how well the amp fairs with all channels driven. Some amps do better than others in this regard.


Gene at Audio Concepts has critiqued ACD measurements as practically useless though.


All of these amps are supposed to be able to hit their rated power into one channel according to FTC rules. Some of them list their power into two channels which is helpful if you are going to be doing a lot of stereo listening.


Power ratings, in general have been criticized by many as being less useful than you would think. Once you start talking about the difference between 100 watts and 120 watts by 5 channels, you are not talking about a great increase in potential power output.


You can't really go wrong with all three of those brands (I can't speak about non Elite pioneer models.)


If you really crave power, look into running a nice receiver with the features you want, and buying some Crown, QSC or Berhinger(sp?) pro amps. Many people seem happy with a stack of $200 2-channel pro amps.
 

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On the Yamaha 2700, they give correct power rating and gives dynamic headroom for 8, 6, 4 & 2 ohm loads. I personally think Yamaha has a more natural sound than the others. But these are all good. I have the 2700 and it's the best sounding receiver I've had. (have had 6, incl. 2 other Yamaha's).
 

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Yamaha has never claimed all channels driven on any receiver specs I have ever seen. Reread the article.


People got their undies in a bunch because they think 120x5 implies all channels driven. The FTC does not require that. The exact specs should make it clear that 120 watts is output only into one channel.
 

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(The "specs" require power into 2 channels.)


The reviews you're reading are about Yamahas at least two models back when their power supplies (frankly) sucked. Much work has been done and a current-model will be able to produce as well as any of its contemporaries. The electrical limitations of your house won't allow an A/B receiver to produce more than about 110-120 watts/channel x 7 continuously, so anything claimed above that is snake oil. Otherwise, you're probably gonna get pretty close to the rated power. You'll probably never use more than a handful of watts for any normal, non-damaging listening though, so I wouldn't worry if one receiver claims 10 watts/channel more than another... there are better reasons to pick between them.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by asangamnerkar /forum/post/0


dakar,


I read on the test-bench review about Yamaha that the power ratings were bloated.


Even though Yamaha claims "120W all channels driven" it was measured at aorund 40WPC.


Can anyone comment on Pio?


Sound & Vision tested the Yamaha 2600 at 119w per channel on their all channels driven test.
 

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asangamnerkar,


I believe FTC power ratings are actually 2 channels driven. Also, when sound and vision tested the V2600 that was at 1k and not from 20-20k. And I think they test it to clipping rather than a specified distortion (I'm not 100% positive about that one). Needless to say the V2600 is still a powerful beast. I'm sure the same goes for the V2700. If you look at the Pioneer VSX-82TXV on audioholics they claim that the 130WpC is conservative and is probably acutally capable of supplying more. Denon's have always been known to have good amp build quality. Needless to say, those 3 receivers should be in the same ballpark in terms of power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for your opinions\\comments.


I do understand that there are other major factors to be considered while selecting but wanted to make sure that power rating is not one of them.


BTW, I did listen to Yamaha 1700 , 2700 and Denon 4306 at BB. I am sure that 2700 was not set up correctly as it was the worst sounding receiver in the room. Even compared to 1700....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhter /forum/post/0


As far as I know, the Arcam AVR300/350 are the only receivers that give the full 110wpc with all 7 channels driven. The Arcam additionally gives 140wpc if only 2 channels are driven.

As far as I know, H/K rates their receivers with 7 channels driven from 20 to 20k.
 

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Elites have generally run pretty close to over their published specs. I still remember back in the day when the Elite 45TX was bench tested at something like 130 x 5.
 

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Sound and vision bench tested the H/K AVR7200 (rated 100wpc x 7) and found it to put out over 140 wpc all 7 channels driven. It also measured over 190 wpc in stereo mode. I've NEVER seen an H/K product measured that put out less than rated wattage.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 /forum/post/0


Sound and vision bench tested the H/K AVR7200 (rated 100wpc x 7) and found it to put out over 140 wpc all 7 channels driven. It also measured over 190 wpc in stereo mode. I've NEVER seen an H/K product measured that put out less than rated wattage.


So is that a makeup bonus for the multiple threads I read where H/K reliability seems less than others?



On a different note...

Even the 10lb Panasonic digital receivers put out roughly 80x7 into 8 Ohms.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 /forum/post/0


I've NEVER seen an H/K product measured that put out less than rated wattage.

Then you "NEVER" looked up the test results for a DPR-1005!

Rated for 70wpc, and it only put out 30.8wpc with 5 channels driven at 0.1% distortion.

But of course you'll probably only want to use the 91.9wpc two channel results instead..


But it also has terrible two channel 4ohm results, it puts out less at 4ohms than it what it's rated for at 8ohms!


"Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 40.4 watts"

http://www.hometheatermag.com/loudsp...hk/index4.html
 

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The best thing to do if you want to determine if a receiver has the power to drive your speaker setup is to plop in a movie like Drumline into your dvd player and crank the volume up. I realize you have to have the receiver in your house to do this demo, but at least you will know if it will cut it. If not, return it to the store and git yo money back.


Everything depends on your speaker setup. If they're efficient, you have nothing to worry about. If they ain't (e.g., older Martin Logans), then you better consider separate amps, as none of the receivers mentioned can handle the front speakers under extreme conditions.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla /forum/post/0


Then you "NEVER" looked up the test results for a DPR-1005!

Rated for 70wpc, and it only put out 30.8wpc with 5 channels driven at 0.1% distortion.

But of course you'll probably only want to use the 91.9wpc two channel results instead..


But it also has terrible two channel 4ohm results, it puts out less at 4ohms than it what it's rated for at 8ohms!


"Into 4 ohms, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 40.4 watts"

http://www.hometheatermag.com/loudsp...hk/index4.html

That's a first for me, but I've never been interested in their DPR's. They seemed more of a novelty than their standard receivers. I don't believe that they even build them anymore, maybe for the reasons you've stated.
 
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