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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Disclaimer: This may/not be off-kilter, but it's faster to ask then to figure it out on my own weeks after it's too late.


I've been [sorta] playing catchup reading posts. There are so many posts that are no longer relivant, and so much to read it's been a less-than-masterful and juddy journey.


So I'm breaking out and asking a question/possibly pointing out a solution.


Can someone with a monthy unit download the update (that changes it from monthy to lifetime) then pull the plug when it's rebooting and make an image of that?


'dumb' questions:

--Is the mothership still sending that update?

--Is there encryption that will prevent this scenerio from working on any but the original replaytv? (if there is encryption don't assume things aren't working so dumb it simply does the check before the download, then update any replaytv unit)

--Shouldn't we do this in case there is an angle down the road?

--Will the image be saved properly if someone did?


Anyone that can put a new image on a Harddrive can make an image from one.


comments?


-co
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icecow
Disclaimer: This may/not be off-kilter, but it's faster to ask then to figure it out on my own weeks after it's too late.


I've been [sorta] playing catchup reading posts. There are so many posts that are no longer relivant, and so much to read it's been a less-than-masterful and juddy journey.


So I'm breaking out and asking a question/possibly pointing out a solution.


Can someone with a monthy unit download the update (that changes it from monthy to lifetime) then pull the plug when it's rebooting and make an image of that?


'dumb' questions:

--Is the mothership still sending that update?

--Is there encryption that will prevent this scenerio from working on any but the original replaytv? (if there is encryption don't assume things aren't working so dumb it simply does the check before the download, then update any replaytv unit)

--Shouldn't we do this in case there is an angle down the road?

--Will the image be saved properly if someone did?


Anyone that can put a new image on a Harddrive can make an image from one.


comments?


-co
I have 4 lifetimes and 2 monthly 4500's and 1 dead 4500.

On the day of announcment 7/31, I used and old image I created to connect to DNNA. I even swaped the socketed eprom out of the dead unit to activate that and then created new WiRNS images.

So I think it's still possible to activate any unit on DNNA.

Based on what Robert posted http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1351707 they are not planing on locking down the units anyway.

After the monthly's are activated however I would suggest moving them to WiRNS.

Hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobe32
they are not planing on locking down the units anyway.

...

Hope that helps.
compliment sandwich:

--Thanks for contributing the info you did

--The logic from the quote above is the bringer of all misery

--Look forward to reading your posts in the future!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
..Also keep in mind that at the point DNNA released the convert-to-lifetime update they had no intention of reversing it, so it may not require any authentication other than verifying the unit is 'Monthly'


My first guess is after you download the update, the replaytv boots up and switches monthlys to lifetimes no-questions-asked.


That image might do nothing for us in the future, or might somehow become piviotal (in a generic wisdom sort of way)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icecow
..Also keep in mind that at the point DNNA released the convert-to-lifetime update they had no intention of reversing it, so it may not require any authentication other than verifying the unit is 'Monthly'


My first guess is after you download the update, the replaytv boots up and switches monthlys to lifetimes no-questions-asked.


That image might do nothing for us in the future, or might somehow become piviotal (in a generic wisdom sort of way)
I think you're guess is correct.

As per the images I can attest that they can be activated using WiRNS. I have no plans on using DNNA's service in the future. Which apparently is what they prefer.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icecow
...Can someone with a monthy unit download the update (that changes it from monthy to lifetime) then pull the plug when it's rebooting and make an image of that?


'dumb' questions:

--Is the mothership still sending that update?

--Is there encryption that will prevent this scenerio from working on any but the original replaytv? (if there is encryption don't assume things aren't working so dumb it simply does the check before the download, then update any replaytv unit)

--Shouldn't we do this in case there is an angle down the road?

--Will the image be saved properly if someone did?


-co
The key to the encryption is now public but the key to all your questions requires learning WiRNS.



(perhaps ReMember can more precisely explain in laymans terms)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm not sure how it works, but I'm picturing the update as having a chunk of code that bootstraps when rebooting, that switches lifetimes to monthly, then deletes that chunk of code, then boots up in to the new image. If that's the case the new image wont have that chunk unless you make an image after the download/upgrade but before it initally boots up again.


It may change toggle the status in the eprom, or it may just be an image that no longer checks the eprom's status.
 

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Everything else you are suspecting is kind of in there sort of, but the key is still using WiRNS to *crack* em. Otherwise keep them off the mothership unprotected lest DNNA once again assures Reden one thing and does something entirely different .



They certainly could *corrupt* the prom to recapture the units if they so choose.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icecow
P.S. Who is ReMember? your link always leads to Space.
This one I can answer.



The ratio of Space to ReMemeber is directly proportional to the inverse of The Other Oprah to icecow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I will have to read those links later. I can't make sense of anything I read right now because I drank too much coffee.


My holistic worry is that later down the road everyone in this forum will scream like babies SO Loud that DNNA peeps will say 'F them' and make an update that makes new keys, and change all units to monthly, but there will be a backdoor exploit if your unit is 'lifetime'. Things have worked like this so far in my life, don't see why they would change now.


It's not me that's being unreasonable.


Just seeing the pre-booted image on the ftp server, alone, is enough reason to do it. The feeling you get seeing that file sitting there you can't even get from drinking a fresca anymore.


I'd do it myself. Theoretically, and factually I own one replaytv (5500) that is monthly. But finding it would require driving 40 min to my moms house and looking the stuff I have in her garage. Apparently she hires someone once a year to move the stuff out and put it back in in no particular order and throwing nothing out, except small extremely important parts. She might even tell me to get a bunch of my stuff out of there while I'm looking, but she has way more stuff and everything she has is crap, but my shi+ has real value. but I degress.


Again, It's me that is the reasonable one.


Can't someone just make the image? I'll paypal you $5
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I get it now. I've buying in to the commercial and how the people in the commercials felt, but could never aquire that feeling after drinking one.


Another mystery solved.



P.S. I might be the cow calling the cat spot black, but thats a dumb picture.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icecow
--Is there encryption that will prevent this scenerio from working on any but the original replaytv? (if there is encryption don't assume things aren't working so dumb it simply does the check before the download, then update any replaytv unit)
Unless something has changed in the software or it's a key value that DNNA can & did change, IIRC, the RTV is going to go into a lockdown mode because the serial number in the SW doesn't match the S/N in the eprom, so the RTV will insist on connecting to something (DNNA or you can fake it out with WiRNS) to re-check activation after which it fixes the mismatch.


As for the image you are requesting, I suspect a few people here might have it. I do. LMK if you want a copy from a 5k to play with.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icecow
...Again, It's me that is the reasonable one.


Can't someone just make the image? I'll paypal you $5
They could but I believe it will still take WiRNS to "bless" the image so it is "married" to your local unit. Not even sure if it will setup from factory.


Another option would be to put it on the mothership now, get it all setup and "activated" for free by just connecting one time. Soon (don't wait to long, or check here if it's still safe to connect first) then take if off and do manual recording. Or leave it unplugged until you can figure out WiRNS. You will eventually need WiRNS anyway for llistings and to keep it lifetime but no big hurry just get a copy of WiRNS 3.0 before it disappears.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm -rf *.*
As for the image you are requesting, I suspect a few people here might have it. I do. LMK if you want a copy from a 5k to play with.


YOu are saying you have an image made after the download, but BEFORE the replaytv booted up again (entertaining the scenerio that there is some bootstrap code that is deleted upon booting up)?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icecow
I'd do it myself. Theoretically, and factually I own one replaytv (5500) that is monthly. But finding it would require driving 40 min to my moms house and looking the stuff I have in her garage...
Is that the only unit you have left? What about Liz?


If it's unplugged then it should keep until you have time to mess with it, whenever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yes, I saw your other post awhile back. You nailed it. Liz was the one that discovered the problem. She directed me to the popup. The linear guy I am, I immediately ordered a SSD drive with a rebate to make a Wirns rig. And the linear guy I am I procrastinated sending in the rebate till 28 days went by before doing any other prepreation (sp). I am wise so I knew Wirns wuold become much easier to figure out+several mini updates were likely to transpire if time went by. I finally was about to do it about the 29th, but the weekend layed 30th, 31st, and I lazed out the 29th (friday, noone wants to make a computer on a friday). Then we got the message that the guide would continue. I am wise. Got another SSD drive out of it too.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by icecow
YOu are saying you have an image made after the download, but BEFORE the replaytv booted up again (entertaining the scenerio that there is some bootstrap code that is deleted upon booting up)?
What is this download you keep talking about?


I think you might be overthinking this.


Assuming the server bears even a passing resemblance to a relational database, all DNNA would have had to do to activate all the units is issue a command like this on the server:


UPDATE Subscriber_Info SET ACTIVATION_STATUS = ‘Activated_Forever’, ACTIVATION_EXPIRY = 0


(Or something to that effect. Apologies if my SQL is rusty; been years since I did any of this stuff.)


Then when the units connect, they pick up the new status, end of story.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KenL
They could but I believe it will still take WiRNS to "bless" the image so it is "married" to your local unit. Not even sure if it will setup from factory.
Right. Any unit that requires a connection as part of the boot/setup will need to talk to WiRNS or something like it, anyway, and presumably WiRNS 3.0 can set the new activation status just like DNNA, so why worry about imaging?

Quote:
just get a copy of WiRNS 3.0 before it disappears.
Exactly. That seems to be the most important thing.
 
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