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My first floor has no doors and the living room has a 10' opening to the rest of the house including a cathedral ceiling and open stairway up to the upstairs hall. We're talking maybe 12000 cubic feet presuming I close the bedroom doors... should I just stop worrying about infrasonics given the vast cavern that is my house?
 

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is that opening more like a large door in a partial wall or is it just completely open?
 

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My first floor has no doors and the living room has a 10' opening to the rest of the house including a cathedral ceiling and open stairway up to the upstairs hall. We're talking maybe 12000 cubic feet presuming I close the bedroom doors... should I just stop worrying about infrasonics given the vast cavern that is my house?
Yes or be prepared to spend lots of $$$
 

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You should be able to pressurize any internal space, it just depends on how many giant boxes you would consider having in your living room and how much money you can spend. With a space that large you certainly can't do it with one or two subs, generally speaking.
 
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My first floor has no doors and the living room has a 10' opening to the rest of the house including a cathedral ceiling and open stairway up to the upstairs hall. We're talking maybe 12000 cubic feet presuming I close the bedroom doors... should I just stop worrying about infrasonics given the vast cavern that is my house?
You need dual Cap 4000s as a start. JTR subs fill the room with bass really well and the Cap 4000 is a beast. Look at the numbers on data-bass and those are outside at 2 meters....:eek:
 

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You need dual Cap 4000s as a start. JTR subs fill the room with bass really well and the Cap 4000 is a beast. Look at the numbers on data-bass and those outside at 2 meters....:eek:
I'm not sure what you mean about the numbers on data bass and those outside at 2 meters...

Josh Ricci at data-bass measures all the subs the same way, 2 meters groundplane (outdoors).
 

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I'm not sure what you mean about the numbers on data bass and those outside at 2 meters...

Josh Ricci at data-bass measures all the subs the same way, 2 meters groundplane (outdoors).
I am informing the OP that in case he does not know those numbers are measured outside at 2 meters so in room will be a lot more
 

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We're talking maybe 12000 cubic feet presuming I close the bedroom doors...
You're in the Bass forum, so you'll get all kind of answers :D I'll weigh in as a counter point. My media room is vaulted, and open to the foyer, kitchen, and dining rooms- so about 12,800 cubic feet, not including maybe another 800+ of hallway. I'm running 1 Submersive F2 on a concrete foundation. You can feel the couch shake, and literally feel the bass in your gut. I've never wanted more in 9 years of daily use. YMMV etc...
 

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My first floor has no doors and the living room has a 10' opening to the rest of the house including a cathedral ceiling and open stairway up to the upstairs hall. We're talking maybe 12000 cubic feet presuming I close the bedroom doors... should I just stop worrying about infrasonics given the vast cavern that is my house?
You can easily attain infrasonic's but the way to do so in your case is a miniDSP HD and 2 or 4 Crowson's, pair that with some pretty good sub woofers to fill the audible range. Or do what others have suggested and put a lot of huge boxes throughout your room :D
 

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My situation is similar to yours. My set up is in my living room, and the room only has 3 walls. The room is open to the kitchen and then to the rest of the house (3300 sq ft house). I have a single TV36 ipal on concrete that is about 12 ft from my MLP. I get great mid bass slam to my chest and ULF bass that I can feel vibrating my chair. Does it pressurize the whole room like a sealed room, probably not. And I'm sure having a second sub would be an improvement but I have no room for another.

Bottom line, even with a very large room on concrete I get all of the mid and ULF bass I need. Of course, all rooms are different. You may also consider a boss platform or crowson's which should help if you can't get the bass feel you desire.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
is that opening more like a large door in a partial wall or is it just completely open?
It's just a total lack of a wall in that section (there's a giant beam over where the load-bearing wall would be that keeps the second floor from falling in there). The TV is in a nook... well, here, I drew it. The stairs and upstairs hall are completely open to the downstairs.

And no, I don't want to spend $10,000+ on 4 monster subs.

So my question is... if I can't pressurize the room (i.e. the whole house), does that remove a lot of the reason to get a giant sub? Is there any benefit to being able to go below what's audible in that case? Or will I still be able to feel it, just less?
 

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So my question is... if I can't pressurize the room (i.e. the whole house), does that remove a lot of the reason to get a giant sub? Is there any benefit to being able to go below what's audible in that case? Or will I still be able to feel it, just less?
You should still get a couple of good subs that can produce ULF. It doesn't have to be a giant, check out the Rythmik FV18 & the Power Sound Audio TV1812 both of those subs are capable down to 10 hz.

Place one near field for TR and the other where you get the best FR (Umik-1 and REW. )
 

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It's just a total lack of a wall in that section (there's a giant beam over where the load-bearing wall would be that keeps the second floor from falling in there). The TV is in a nook... well, here, I drew it. The stairs and upstairs hall are completely open to the downstairs.

And no, I don't want to spend $10,000+ on 4 monster subs.

So my question is... if I can't pressurize the room (i.e. the whole house), does that remove a lot of the reason to get a giant sub? Is there any benefit to being able to go below what's audible in that case? Or will I still be able to feel it, just less?

My house configuration is VERY similar to yours although I think my floor plan is a little more open. Only 3 walls in my living room but I get plenty of tactile feel from a single TV36 ipal - both in chest slam and chair shaking ULF from movies such as BR 2049 and WOTW. That being said, all rooms are different but I don't see why you won't be able to feel the bass with a single large sub such as a TV36, 42 or a JTR4000 if you can fit it in your room. Pic of my set up below. See my post above for more of my thoughts...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I get plenty of tactile feel from a single TV36 ipal
Me: googles TV36 subwoofer
Me: falls out of chair

LOL ... oh man, kudos for being able to swing that both monetarily and if you have a significant other who get a say.

Does it have a spot to tether it to the wall so it doesn't fall on a small child and crush them into paste? :)

Someday, maybe that'll be a goal. I think for now I'll have to make due with something quite a bit less imposing, just for wife approval factor.
 

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Me: googles TV36 subwoofer
Me: falls out of chair

LOL ... oh man, kudos for being able to swing that both monetarily and if you have a significant other who get a say.

Does it have a spot to tether it to the wall so it doesn't fall on a small child and crush them into paste? :)

Someday, maybe that'll be a goal. I think for now I'll have to make due with something quite a bit less imposing, just for wife approval factor.
I think the recommendations you are getting are driven by the fact that you stated pressurizing a 12000 cuft space and no budget or WAF constraints. This is impossible to do without large very powerful subs that can dig deep. If I were you, I forget about pressurizing a room that size. Get a good a couple of low tuned sub and transducers or BOSS platform for additional TR if needed.
 

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I think the recommendations you are getting are driven by the fact that you stated pressurizing a 12000 cuft space and no budget or WAF constraints. This is impossible to do without large very powerful subs that can dig deep. If I were you, I forget about pressurizing a room that size. Get a good a couple of low tuned sub and transducers or BOSS platform for additional TR if needed.



You beat me to it. I was going to say, " Well, you did ask for recommendations?"
 

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It's just a total lack of a wall in that section (there's a giant beam over where the load-bearing wall would be that keeps the second floor from falling in there). The TV is in a nook... well, here, I drew it. The stairs and upstairs hall are completely open to the downstairs.

And no, I don't want to spend $10,000+ on 4 monster subs.

So my question is... if I can't pressurize the room (i.e. the whole house), does that remove a lot of the reason to get a giant sub? Is there any benefit to being able to go below what's audible in that case? Or will I still be able to feel it, just less?
I think the recommendations you are getting are driven by the fact that you stated pressurizing a 12000 cuft space and no budget or WAF constraints. This is impossible to do without large very powerful subs that can dig deep. If I were you, I forget about pressurizing a room that size. Get a good a couple of low tuned sub and transducers or BOSS platform for additional TR if needed.

Part of the problem with some conversations is that we use words like "pressurizing" a space without agreeing on what we mean by that. A space is "pressurized" with bass when we can feel distinct sensations of air pressure against our ear drums first, and then perhaps against our faces and other parts of our bodies. The sensation is just like the cabin pressurization that we feel on an airplane as it climbs to higher altitudes, or as we drive a car up into the mountains. That cabin (air) pressurization is much easier to achieve in smaller sealed rooms.

But, that sensation of cabin pressurization is not the same thing as hearing and feeling perfectly adequate bass. We can hear low-frequencies and feel mid-bass chest punch sensations, and feel low-bass rumbling/thudding sensations, without feeling cabin pressurization. In fact, we can hear and feel those things outdoors.

The bottom-line is that no one can really predict exactly how much subwoofage it will take to satisfy you in any size room. Any room (enclosed space) under about 20,000^3 will get some room gain from boundaries. That's why subs are tested outdoors, away from any physical structures. Whether we are in very big spaces, or much smaller ones, we can only determine our own bass preferences through a process of trial-and-error. In other words, we have to go ahead and bite-the-bullet, and try a good subwoofer, in order to find out how much bass we actually want. (Return/upgrade programs can be very helpful in that discovery process.)

In my experience on AVS, I have found that individual preferences for loud (mid and low) bass volumes, and for strong tactile sensations, are probably more important factors in determining ultimate subwoofer selections than room size. That makes things a little harder for all of us, because we all simply have to experiment to find out what will satisfy us. Having said that, most people will advise someone in a large room to buy the biggest and most powerful ported sub that he can reasonably afford and accommodate. And, I think that's good advice.

Section VIII of the Guide, linked below, will help you to understand some of the factors that may go into making subwoofer selections, and why the above is typically good advice. :)

Regards,
Mike
 

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Shakers and get in the sub...get it as close to yer backside as possible.....it will fire infra waves right thru the furniture and in to the furniture and in to you.



Beyond brands, beyond performance is science...under most circumstances all things being equal a larger cone moves more air.....its really that simple, the closer you get the cone to you there more effect you get.


Its the difference between a 6 inch fan and a 60 inch fan, its the difference from standing in front of the fan or 100 feet away.



Sound waves are pressure waves, the lower the frequency the more pressure for a given loudness......


6bd per doubling of distance drop/rise..........so at 16 feet away at 115db reference level and we move to 8 feet we gain 6 db.........we move to 0 and we gain 12 db total.

Lets take a generic 500 watt sub.......for each 3db gain in sound we need to double the power........so a sub 16 feet away is down 12 db.......or at 99 db............instead of 115 db if it was directly on yer backside.


soo 500 watts doubles to 1000 watts to get 102 db.....2000 watts to get 105 db,....4000 watts to get 108 db......8000 watts to get 111 db...........



Thats huge......having a 500 watt sub firing in to the back of your seat will feel about the same as a 8000 watt sub 16 feet away........this is far from perfect math and for illustration purposes,...but you get the idea.

Also shakes under the seat can get the tactile infrasonic at inaudible levels to the same magnitude..... with very little to no sound.
 
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