[krabapple]

Neil Young's Lonely Quest to Save Music

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/20/magazine/neil-young-streaming-music.html

 

[JT01]

Neil Young's Lonely Quest to Save Music

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/20/magazine/neil-young-streaming-music.html

What good is posting a link to the New York Times when you need a subscription to read more than the first paragraph? Probably a good article - if I could read it.

 

[krabapple]

What good is posting a link to the New York Times when you need a subscription to read more than the first paragraph? Probably a good article - if I could read it.

Sometimes you get a few freebie reads a month. Maybe not for this one. But still good for those who subscribe. About four million people, at recent estimates.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

"When you hear real music, you get lost in it, he added, “because it sounds like God.” Spotify doesn’t sound like God. No one thinks that. It sounds like a rotating electric fan that someone bought at a hardware store."

The Pono dream is now gone. A bitter pill to swallow.

"Pono's stated goal to present songs "as they first sound during studio recording sessions", using "high-resolution" 24-bit 192 kHz audio instead of "the compressed audio inferiority that MP3s offer" received mixed reactions, with some describing Pono as a competitor to similar music service such as HDtracks, but others doubting its potential for success."

 

[Worf]

Ironically, it was Apple that killed Pono. Apple acquired the company behind it that basically let any store get a huge catalog of music. They ripped the music and provided it to the store to sell. By buying that company, Pono no longer had a music catalog.

Of course, the Pono player itself wasn't that great. Sure they had Ayre design the amp section, but it was and audiophool no feedback amp with high impedance for an output (something like 16 ohms or so, for comparison, a more contemporary solid state headphone amp can easily have under 0.5 ohms, and 0.1 isn't unusual), and discrete design. I always wondered about that, since there was a dual opamp right next to the output which appeared to drive the outputs. It also had a slow processor and ran an ancient version of Android. The only good side was at least it had a decent DAC.

In the end, a Fiio player has better specs, better form factor, better construction, better software and is cheaper, so no big loss.

No love lost, really. And yes, I have a Pono player.

 

[m. zillch]

Neil Young's advice on sound is not sound advice: https://www.connecthearing.ca/blog/neil-young-knows-when-the-damage-was-done-to-his-hearing/

It's funny, when I visit my local pro audio store the guy uses as part of his pitch "And if the pro's and musicians use it then you know it's the real deal!"
I politely smile and think to myself "These pros you speak of are even more gullible than average folks.".
---

Many people buy audio gear seeking approval from their gurus/leaders and peers. What they covet most is a stamp of approval proving the value.

There's a famous used record seller, for example, which supposedly listens to, and then grades all the vinyl sold. People pay top dollar to get "Grade A Hot Stamper" status discs and I'm talking 100's if not 1000s of dollars.
https://www.wired.com/2015/03/hot-stampers/

"the success of this bold enterprise hinges on 20 to 30 "preferred customers" who spend as much as $100,000 a year on hot stampers."

Pono and now MQA are doing the same thing: their "authenticated status" LED lights [yellow on Pono and blue on MQA, I believe] let the owner feel good that they've downloaded "the good stuff."

IMAX seems to be doing the same sort of thing in video, I hear. "I didn't just buy the new movie on BD, I've got the IMAX ENHANCED version. The little authentication light on my gear turns on and everything!"

People aren't falling for it. It's all a racket.

 

[Worf]

Heh, I forgot about the light on the pono player. Tells you how often I bought stuff from the store.

I wonder what causes it to light up.

 

[m. zillch]

The pono authentication light turns on when you play a special audiophile-ready song you downloaded from them. It shows the song has been blessed as having the magic crystal enhancement. A least that's what their lawyers said, Dewey, Cheatem, and Howe.

 

[Worf]

Yeah, I know that. But what you're getting from their store is a regular FLAC file, so there has to be something in the file that turns it on. You know, so you can modify your file to do the same. And I don't think any file works,since a lot of the files were just cd rips in the end. Finding those high res files were hard because there weren't that many to begin with.

And I don't recall them saying it would light up if you bought it from the store at regular cd quality.

 

[m. zillch]

I don't know what the trigger is to activate the pono light. It could be some hidden flag in the digital meta data, or keep in mind, Hi-re$ files recorded above 44kHz have tons of utterly useless unused high frequency space so they can put anything they want up there. For instance, a pilot tone which is a -70dBFS signal at 24kHz would be undetectable to all mortal, human ears yet could be what flips the switch.

 

[m. zillch]

According to some, the Pono light comes on if the file is 192 enough:

"This is where Pono's snake oil really begins, because when you play any 192/24 songs on the player, it rewards you by—we're not kidding—turning on a little blue neon light. This doesn't happen if your 192/24 songs didn't come from Pono's storefront, however, as those are apparently not 192 enough."

Source: Pono Player review: A tall, refreshing drink of snake oil

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

I'm a big fan of Neil Young's music, but......

 

[m. zillch]

I'm a big fan of Neil Young's music, but......

He has some songs I think are mesmerizing and brilliant. Check out Mr. Soul:
1967:

~40 years later, 2006:

Notice the guitar riff is similar to "Satisfaction" by the Stones.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

He has some songs I think are mesmerizing and brilliant. Check out Mr. Soul:
1967:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V8VvEzuQ6Y

~40 years later, 2006:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMRqN0m5c-M

Notice the guitar riff is similar to "Satisfaction" by the Stones.

Absolutely! His music never grows old to me.

 

[morgiastic]

I don't have a subscription but I was able to read it. Pono aside there's some quite interesting ideas on neurology and perception in there.
Morgan

 

[m. zillch]

"Well, maybe you can't hear what makes Hi-re$ music better with your conscious brain but you can with your sub-conscious brain." This is an old con.

I suppose I can see ultraviolet light, radio waves, and I can levitate too. . . . all with my subconscious brain. Luckily I'm the one who controls my wallet!

Oh no you're not!

Wait, did you guys just hear that too!?

 

[rnsound]

Absolutely! His music never grows old to me.

He's the only rocker I know of who 25 to 30 years into his career was still putting out albums that his fans didn't have to make excuses for.

Of course, nothing lasts forever. His output over the last few years has been mostly weak, but what a run he had!

And yeah, its embarrassing to hear some of his ill-informed rants these days, but then again, isn't being a little flaky part of the job description of a real artist?

 

[morgiastic]

"Well, maybe you can't hear what makes Hi-re$ music better with you conscious brain but you can with your sub-conscious brain." This is an old con.

I suppose I can see ultraviolet light, radio waves, and I can levitate too. . . . all with my subconscious brain. Luckily I'm the one who controls my wallet!

Oh no you're not!

Wait, did you guys just hear that too!?

If that was in response to me I was referring to the possibility of using specially prepared audio to help with neurological perceptual difficulties. Reminiscent, perhaps, of the guy who's stereovision was dramatically improved by seeing a 3D movie.
www.bbc.com/future/story/20120719-awoken-from-a-2d-world
Morgan

 

[morgiastic]

Neil Young's advice on sound is not sound advice: https://www.connecthearing.ca/blog/neil-young-knows-when-the-damage-was-done-to-his-hearing/

It's funny, when I visit my local pro audio store the guy uses as part of his pitch "And if the pro's and musicians use it then you know it's the real deal!"
I politely smile and think to myself "These pros you speak of are even more gullible than average folks.".
---

Many people buy audio gear seeking approval from their gurus/leaders and peers. What they covet most is a stamp of approval proving the value.

There's a famous used record seller, for example, which supposedly listens to, and then grades all the vinyl sold. People pay top dollar to get "Grade A Hot Stamper" status discs and I'm talking 100's if not 1000s of dollars.
https://www.wired.com/2015/03/hot-stampers/

"the success of this bold enterprise hinges on 20 to 30 "preferred customers" who spend as much as $100,000 a year on hot stampers."

Pono and now MQA are doing the same thing: their "authenticated status" LED lights [yellow on Pono and blue on MQA, I believe] let the owner feel good that they've downloaded "the good stuff."

IMAX seems to be doing the same sort of thing in video, I hear. "I didn't just buy the new movie on BD, I've got the IMAX ENHANCED version. The little authentication light on my gear turns on and everything!"

People aren't falling for it. It's all a racket.

IMAX ENHANCED is mostly a badge that ensures that certain standards have been met, like THX. I believe the plan was to release the IMAX versions of some commercial releases as IMAX ENHANCED (increasingly unlikely). Otherwise, I don't believe that, other than ensuring that it was mastered to a certain standard, there is anything that IMAX ENHANCED does to video. It does effect the audio, though, assuming an IMAX ENHANCED processor, of course, which to my ears makes it sound more like one is in an IMAX theatre, for better or worse.
Morgan

 

[m. zillch]

If that was in response to me I was referring to the possibility of using specially prepared audio to help with neurological perceptual difficulties.

Oh. Sorry, I may have jumped the gun. [Didn't read the article due to the pay wall, to be frank.] Usually when people utter the word "neuroscience" relating to Hi-Re$ it is a reference to a quack called Oohashi. Under a penname he was the audio creator of the anime movie Akira.

Oohashi: "We have discovered that most people are strangely incapable of verbally expressing when they hear the beautiful sound improvement offered by the inclusion of the hypersonic (ultrasonic) frequencies during paired, A vs. B music comparisons, so instead we have decided to measure 20 different metabolic functions such as breathing rate, electrical brain activity (through a novel but unproven EEG machine I invented myself without any schooling in neuroscience nor medicine in general), blood pressure, and in the case of this particular session, body temperature. [*Sticks thermometer probe in subject's mouth*] Once we determine which one accurately shows it, we will then publish our impartial findings."


Test Subject: (*mumbling due to thermometer*) "But how do you know they hear it if they don't actually say they--"


Oohashi: "Sit back and relax. Clear your mind of any thoughts and try to feel the music...Ok wait a moment, this might take some time because my percise thermometer has to get a baseline measurement before we can begin and currently, because you are not relaxing, it is erratically jumping between 98.61 degrees Farenheit and 98.62 degrees F. Please stay still and relaxed as you listen to this normal frequency range music." [*20 seconds pass.]


Oohashi: "O.K. you have stabilized at 98.61 degrees so we are ready to begin. I will now play for you the hypesersonic music instead, so we can measure how it elevates your appreciation of the music as seen by the change in your body's response." [*Flips switch*]


Test Subject: "I don't feel anything."


Oohashi: "Please sit still and relax. This is not a test of what you consciously perceive, it is a test of what you subconsciously perceive....Hmm, I'm not seeing any change so the delayed response we often see in some subjects seems to be true with you as well and...Wait...Wait, O.K. 98.62! The effect has now kicked in and has raised your body's harmonious alignment to the elevated plateau level. [*scribbles note on clipboard*] Do you happen to notice the improvement to the music or your visual perception of colors?"


Test Subject: "Um, kind of?"


Oohashi: "Like I said, the improvement isn't always clear to all listeners and this is a test of your subconscious mind, not your conscious mind. ...Hmm, I notice your temperature just took a slight dip back down to 98.61 but I'm sure it's just a temporary anomaly, probably because you are still fidgetting a bit. . . . Ah, it is now back up to the correct, elevated plateau level of 98.62F. We will now turn off the hypersonic music. [*Flips switch*] There, did you notice a change?"


Test Subject: "Well I heard the mechanical 'clunk' noise of the switch, but doesn't that mean this is technically no longer a blind experi--"


Oohashi: "As I told you, your subconscious mind is what we are measuring here, so what you consciously perceive is actually immaterial, I was just curious if...Wait a minute...this is interesting. ...You seem to be one of the people who once they reach the elevated level the wonderful effect still persists, at least for a while, even without the hypersonic content playing, meaning the hypersonics activated the response however they aren't necessary to maintain the response. We are seeing that in almost half of our subjects, with varying periods of persistance. Very interesting. Anyway the test is now over. Thank you for your participation and here's a complimentary Blu-ray of my movie AKIRA which I engineered with the wonderful hypersonic effect [Japanese release only]. It is the only movie ever made this way."

Reminiscent, perhaps, of the guy who's stereovision was dramatically improved by seeing a 3D movie.
www.bbc.com/future/story/20120719-awoken-from-a-2d-world

Why would a person without stereoscopy attend a 3D movie in the first place?