[shawnharper]

I hang out in another forum often (I know, I'm a cheater), a woodworking forum.


I've been recording all episodes of certain DIY/wood shows, and am now making DVDs of them without commercials, and nice menus, etc for my own personal "library."


I let it slip in the other forum that I'm doing this. Now I'm getting tons of requests for copies of these DVDs.


I'm pretty sure it'd be illegal to sell copies of them, but is it illegal to just give them away (they're not from "premium" channels?"


What about charging them for cost of the physical DVD ($2) and the shipping ($2)? What about for my time in making the DVD?


A slippery slope here. wattel.kicks-ass.org, just pay for my expenses , and help some fellow woodworkers out by giving them easy access to the shows that they'd otherwise have to record/organize themselves.


And, if sending them is illegal, how does this differ from "Send Show" on my Replay?


I'm waiting for someone to set-up an "on-demand" type service for replay shows, charging $X to send you a particular show that they have on their 200terabyte RTV.


Comments?

 

[Pete Rod]

Two words for you. Copy Right, Copy Right. Or is it one word. Copyright, copyright. You can't do it under the law in the USA.

 

[shawnharper]

What can't I do?


Give them away?


Sell the "postage"



So are you saying that I can't even mail one to someone and pay the shipping/DVD cost out of my own pocket?


Or is there a gray line here.

 

[Namuna]

I'm no legal expert, But I'd say look at it this way...


Archiving for your own PERSONAL use, no problem.


Things start going down that slippery slope once you start offering the items to others (doesn't matter if it's your Brother or some Joe Schmoe from Uganda) then you hit AT LEAST a grey area.


Your descent down that slope continues as you start charging money (no matter what reason or justification you use).


I think what you're asking here is...Is it okay to offer the DVDs you created for a nominal fee (cost of DVD and the bit of work you did) and I think the answer is; Do you have a strong enough argument to submit to the judge if/when the people that produce the show sue you? Though I'd imagine they'd just STRONGLY ask you to halt distribution


Solid question though, I'd love to hear a DEFINITIVE answer on it.

 

[shawnharper]

Namuna -


I think your answer is what I needed to hear.



I think I'll just mail them to people, and eat the cost.

 

[AndrewF]

If you will be sending them to many people then it will be cheaper to convert them to VCD, burn to CD and send in a postcard case.


Any recently made DVD player plays VCD, right?

 

[Belial6]

You could make them send you a self addressed stamped envelope with the DVD-R in it, so that all you loose is your time.


Although I'd guess it's still illegal. I do suspect that if you kept it 'under the radar' DIY wouldn't care, especially if you left in the commercials.


I think that a good portion of companies look at it like eating fries off of your pals "All you can eat" plate. It is "stealing", but if they are not loosing money, the "thief" is still buying their product, and it is done in small enough quantities, they pretend to "not notice".


Of course, you could always send them a sample, explaining that you created this for your own personal use, and ask permission. Maybe they would LIKE to have their shows distributed on DVD. (for a nominal % of course)

 

[Wrecks]

I imagine that if the receiver of the video can prove that he has a license to view it (in other words he can view the same series on his own TV because it's in his cable TV or broadcast TV lineup) you might be okay.

 

[MaxH]

Have you tried contacting EPIC or EFF? They would be very interested in this type of case. They might provide you with their take on intellectual property law, and they might even defend you if you did get caught.

 

[Ace987]

I haven't followed up with it much, but I heard that people were say they were selling Video Tapes but didn't specify whether they were blank or not. They just happened to have shows recorded on them. You could say your selling DVDs but have no knowledge of what's on them


OK, to be serious, I wouldn't send a whole lot of people this stuff. If it's 5 people at $4 a head, your talking about $20 out of your pocket. I think that would be worth avoidng future legal hassle. You could also find someone who doesn't mind the legal hassle and has a DVD burner, send him one copy and let him distribute to the rest of the folks who want it.


This is a very slippery issue with similarities to IVS and should make for a very interesting topic.

 

[tluxon]

What a timely topic.


I've been putting together a DVD of short (virtually all under 30 seconds) clips (let's call it my own highlight reel) with a common theme from free OTA broadcasts, and I've had a half-dozen requests from members of a couple other forums as well. I've put in a ton of time and work on this compilation and would LOVE to share it with others who could never do it for themselves, but I've been really unsure of any potential legal ramifications.


Keep bringing on the opinions.


Tim

 

[Jeff D]

I think the key to this is something that is implied byt the broadcaster's copyright.


You can not ever rebroadcast or redisplay or retransmit anything for exhibit anything without some sort of prior permission. I believe this applies to everything that comes in to your TV. Bars, hotels, and other such places pay more for the services because of the public exhibition.


Regardless of if you charge or give it away it's the copyright holder's property. Think of it as a picture. If I take a picture with my camera I'm the copyright holder. If I then print it and give you a copy you have a copy for yourself, legally I'm the copyright owner. But... if you take the photo and colorcopy it and give it away you are violating my copyright. Because of that you are violating the copyright laws.



That said the whole IVS thing made all this much more interesting.


I woodn't suggest giving away the stuff unless you feel very comfortable with knowing someone could come after you. The whole copyright thing is at a head right now, I wouldn't be surprised to see things change in the near future.

 

[Wrecks]

Quote:

I've been putting together a DVD of short (virtually all under 30 seconds) clips

Instead of going to all the trouble of putting those clips on DVD and mailing them out, you might consider setting up a simple FTP server on your computer and point it to the directory that contains these files. Anyone you give the FTP address and password out to would be able to download the files themselves.

 

[gweempose]

Jeff is absolutely correct! It doesn't matter if you sell it or give it away for free. You are not allowed to redistribute (in any form) programming that you record off TV, cable, or satellite. To do so is an illegal violation of the broadcaster's copyright. That being said, the only thing stopping you is the law. Unless your pirating is done on a large scale, it's unlikely that anyone will come after you.

 

[traker1001]

Quote:

Originally posted by shawnharper And, if sending them is illegal, how does this differ from "Send Show" my Replay? I'm waiting for someone to set-up an "on-demand" type service for replay shows, charging $X to send you a particular show that they have on their 200terabyte RTV. Comments? [/b]

Lets not forget this feature along with the commercial advanced, No longer exists in newer replays.


Yeah, This would be a nice thing to see.

 

[Bobcrane]

A solid question at the beginning of the thread is how IVS plays in the discussion. While it is certainly illegal to redistribute programming (as gweempose just said) other than distributing on media instead of over a wire what makes IVS above this?

 

[RFontenot]

This is similiar in many ways to the Oscar screener case in the news last week. An Academy member gets a screener tape, gives it to another guy who makes a DVD of it and then distributes copies of the DVD to family and friends.


Somehow the movie ends up uploaded to the Internet. The FBI tracks down the Academy member, finds out who he gave the tapes to, then arrests that guy for copyright infringement.


It won't matter if he did or didn't upload the movie to the Internet, he's still going to be found guilty of either copyright infringement and/or contributing to copyright infringement. The Academy member will likely be charged with contributing to copyright infringement.


Television programs are copyrighted, you can make copies for you own personal use as defined under Fair Use, but if you give away those copies, even for free to others, you are guilty of copyright infringement.


Chances are your friends aren't going to turn you into the FBI, but if one of them uploads your edited programs to the Internet, and the FBI tracks them down, you can bet they'll give you up in exchange for a lighter sentence.


RF

 

[shawnharper]

That is the heart of my question. By giving these away, why am I at any greater risk to being sued than if I sent the show to someone via IVS?


I would think that sending via IVS is more "dangerous" as there's proof (I assume via RTV's server logs or something) that you sent copyrighted material.


Does it matter that I leave the part of the end of the show in where it says "copyrighted, blah blah blah?"

 

[tluxon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrecks Instead of going to all the trouble of putting those clips on DVD and mailing them out, you might consider setting up a simple FTP server on your computer and point it to the directory that contains these files. Anyone you give the FTP address and password out to would be able to download the files themselves.

I kinda like that idea, but would I be able to direct people past my ISPs DNS server without giving away my OWN password (which for obvious reasons I wouldn't want to do)?


Just for the sake of discussion, let's say my clips are of marching bands at parades that were broadcast on air. It seems to me that since parades are a public event (always free, AFAIK), copyright rights might have some limitations. Any ideas on that?


Tim

 

[Pete Rod]

This whole thing sounds like alot of work for very little return and maybe a cop at your door to boot. Why even bother. Yea, yea, yea I know. Why can't I do it? You could but know what doors you open and when the law comes in don't cry over it. Maybe the law will never show? But maybe they will.......... Ask some of the Napster user now in court.