[dece870717]

Has anyone run into this issue, according to the manual these are the solutions;

- Turn down the volume... LOL OK...


- Lower the 63Hz and 125Hz equalizer levels


- Switch on digital safety feature.


So does anyone know exactly whats going on that causes this to happen, is it an issue with how they build the circuitry of the receiver? I've never heard of any other receiver having this issue. I know its not a powering the speakers issue because I recently bought a Emotiva xpa-5 to power my new Polk Lsim 703 fronts and 706 center, have the fxia4 for surrounds, the receiver does only processing signal. It's somewhat annoying that the limiting factor now with how loud I can turn it up is the receiver itself. Maybe I should just sell this thing off and buy a preamp/processor only receiver, anyone have suggestions?

 

[budwich]

Just because you don't have speakers directly hooked up to your rcvr output stage, doesn't mean that there isn't an "overdrive" issue that the design of the rcvr has built in protection for. What if anything, did the display panel indicate was the "cause" of the shutdown. There are a few threads of people "overdriving" AVR's of various types getting a similar result... so it isn't totally surprising. What volume level was the receiver indicating at the time of the shutdown. Did you try the "suggested fixes"... in particular, reducing the low frequncy levels.

 

[dece870717]



Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich  /t/1517821/problem-with-pioneer-elite-sc-61-shutting-off-during-loud-playback#post_24358054


Just because you don't have speakers directly hooked up to your rcvr output stage, doesn't mean that there isn't an "overdrive" issue that the design of the rcvr has built in protection for. What if anything, did the display panel indicate was the "cause" of the shutdown. There are a few threads of people "overdriving" AVR's of various types getting a similar result... so it isn't totally surprising. What volume level was the receiver indicating at the time of the shutdown. Did you try the "suggested fixes"... in particular, reducing the low frequncy levels.

With Star Trek Into Darkness it happens right at -10db, prominent right at the part where the officer is in the archives and drops the ring into the glass of water, the second right before explosions at the highest pitched noise is when it happens. It seems to ONLY happen at high frequency's. Has happened in Dredd at 0db at 3 parts that I recall one specifically when Anderson escapes and takes out two guys and right when she shoots the guy in the head at that high pitch of the gun it does it again. Turning on the digital safety greatly recesses the treble which takes away from the sound in a bad way so it's not really a fix and again it shows that it has to do with treble. Looks like I'll just need to sell this thing and get a better preamp/processor since the only way to fix the issue is to diminish the sound quality.

 

[budwich]

hmmm... how about turning up the gain on the amps (ie. 3/4 or higher) and thus reducing the vol on the avr... does that help? that would kind of be a "normal"operating mode.

 

[ss9001]

"Has happened in Dredd at 0db at 3 parts"


that's a pretty high volume setting if that's your typical level.


how big is your room & the speaker distances from you?


your Polks are 8 ohms nominal impedance making them easy to drive. and while not high efficiency, certainly not low efficiency either @ 88 dB rating.


do you have a subwoofer? if yes, what speaker setting - Small or Large? what crossover?


what are the channel levels for each channel in MCACC? are they + values or - values?

 

[BAMAVADER]

I had a similar experience about a year ago....Yamaha RXA1000...Infinity primus speakers...it was the NEW Dark Shadows movie...last very loud scene where the ghost screams and there is an explosion...the Yamaha would cut off every time. I sold it and bought a new Pioneer SC 1222 and on that scene it did the exact same thing...and has NEVER done it on anything else and I have played almost every famous loud scene that home theater has to offer on it. I never figured it out...

 

[Jon S]

It sounds like a gain issue... You have the amplifier gain set too low and the AVR is clipping on the pre-amp outputs. Like Budwich said, increase the gain on the power amps. On my SC67, I usually have the volume at -15dB max. Any higher is too loud. If you are at 0dB, the output voltage would be several magnitudes higher...

 

[ss9001]

Does Emotiva XPA series have a gain control? I didn't think so

if anything Emotiva amps are on the high side of gain. a common fallacy is bolting on amps to receiver preamp outs without taking into account the receiver's rated preamp output levels.


if the amp's input sensitivity is higher than the receiver's preamp levels can do, then that is not going to be able to use all the available power in the amp.


I had a set of values for the SC-09TX which had Ice amps so not the same amp design but at least this will give an idea:


For Pre out : output impedance is 490ohm.

output level for -20dBFs input , 0dB VR position => 150mV

-20dBFs input , +12dB VR Position(MAX) => 600mV
0dBFs input, 0dB VR position => 1.5V

This output level is determined by THX.


it looks like 0 dB volume with a 0 dB input would give 1.5 volts for that model which looks to be less than the rated input sensitivity of the XPA5, not that much less but still less:


Input sensitivity (for rated power; 8 Ohm load): 1.875 V


so to be able to use all the power in the XPA5, he'd probably have to put the Pioneer volume into the positive area.


if his MCACC preamp levels are all calibrated at negative values or slightly above 0, then he could increase them to be able to take advantage of the Emotiva. he can go into the MCACC settings and increase each channel level by the same dB amount; that increases the preamp gain for each channel.


I'm not even sure why an XPA5 is needed for Polk speakers. the SC-61 should have more than adequate power for those speakers, unless it's a very big room.


and I agree with you, most likely that either 1) the preamps are clipping due to gain mismatch OR because he has the speakers set to Large or no sub so they can't handle all the ultra-low bass on a dynamic action movie with aggressive LFE track.

 

[dece870717]

Thank you all for the input! I have 3 15 inch subs, 2 sealed and one ported that helps with the low end. I have the crossover set to 80hz and speakers would always be set to small. This stuff still happened even well before I got the lsim speakers and the xpa-5. This still happened even when I had my polk Rti a series and had them powered by the receiver. I'll try some more adjusts in mcaa and adjust the gains for the speakers. The room is 12"8 x 12" 7 with 7 foot ceilings. I'm roughly 10 feet away from the speakers same distance as my 73" tv

 

[ss9001]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dece870717  /t/1517821/problem-with-pioneer-elite-sc-61-shutting-off-during-loud-playback/0_100#post_24362065


Thank you all for the input! I have 3 15 inch subs, 2 sealed and one ported that helps with the low end. I have the crossover set to 80hz and speakers would always be set to small. This stuff still happened even well before I got the lsim speakers and the xpa-5. This still happened even when I had my polk Rti a series and had them powered by the receiver. I'll try some more adjusts in mcaa and adjust the gains for the speakers. The room is 12"8 x 12" 7 with 7 foot ceilings. I'm roughly 10 feet away from the speakers same distance as my 73" tv

that is a relatively small room...to be honest, with those speakers and the power available in the SC-61, you really don't need the Emotiva

unfortunately, because of the max preamp out voltages from the receiver combined with the higher input sensitivity of the Emotiva, you would need to set the receiver volume to at least 0.0 dB or you will not achieve the available power in the Emotiva amp, it's basically underutilized. and setting the volume level to 0.0 or more means increasing the preamp output voltages and possibly getting them closer and closer to clipping. for different reasons, I also set a receiver to 0.0 to be able to use the preamp outs of an old quad receiver into multichannel analog inputs to use the Pioneer's amps. but it never shuts off when used this way.


you may have an overly sensitive protection circuit. because with 3 massive subs like that in a small room (overkill?

) and setting the speakers to Small this receiver should easily give you ear-splitting volume on its own.


it's possible you may have a "non-optimal" MCACC calibration too. whether or not the calibration is good depends on how & where you placed & aimed the mic.