AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I hope this is posted in the correct place my apologies if not. I also apologize for the length of my post.


I have had Directv since 2003 with great picture quality. About 3-4 months ago my Directv picture started to degrade. I figured the dish which is pole mounted needed re-pointed. Direct came out and re-cemented the pole and pointed the dish so that all of my signals were strong. Still the problem persisted. It has gradually seemed to get worse over the past months, some channels worse than others. I have had a total of 5 Directv technicians out, none of them could solve the problem. Eventually I canceled Direct and ordered Dish. Same problem with Dish.


My issue is I'm getting tons of mosquito noise and motion artifacts. This is especially true on ESPN/ABC football broadcasts where it looks as though the players are outlined in all I can describe as "fuzz". Close ups many times are fine - then when the camera backs out to show the play there is tons of noise sometimes to the point of making it unwatchable. Dark scenes in movies are particularly bad with lots of "noise" or blocking in the dark areas. Faces of people can look digitized at times, then clear for a second only to "digitize" again. Standard def is absolutely unwatchable. The last tech that was out told me it was my tv - a new UN55C7000 Samsung, even though I have 4 HDTV's in my house all doing this.


Here is what I have tried with no results:

1. I have switched to brand new HDMI cables from Monoprice.


2. I have bypassed the receiver plugging the DVR directly to the tv.


3. The last tech that was here ran the tv and box off of a power inverter in his truck and ran a cable direct from the dish to the DVR. The point being to try to see if it was electrical in the house or cable wiring (I built home 3 yrs ago).


4. I don't get the problem on Blu Rays or games.


Any suggestions? It seems to be the worst on the new tv, which I will admit is not yet properly calibrated. But I have a 52" Sony LCD and 46" Samsung LCD that exhibit the same picture problems. Both Direct and Dish say signals are not the problem. Could it just be that compression is so bad now? Has anyone noticed a change in their satellite quality in the past several months? I'm going insane.


Thanks in advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,749 Posts
If you have one DVR how is its output connected to the 3 TVs?

What resoloution do you send SD programs in to you TVs in?

Is shapness on all 3 TVs set to 0? If not try setting it to 0.

Did any of the techs change the cable end connectors for the cable(s) from the dish?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,662 Posts

Quote:
3. The last tech that was here ran the tv and box off of a power inverter in his truck and ran a cable direct from the dish to the DVR. The point being to try to see if it was electrical in the house or cable wiring (I built home 3 yrs ago).

Did they find anything when doing this? that was my first thought, was that the wiring in your house is bad.

Quote:
This is especially true on ESPN/ABC football broadcasts where it looks as though the players are outlined in all I can describe as "fuzz". Close ups many times are fine - then when the camera backs out to show the play there is tons of noise sometimes to the point of making it unwatchable.

That is normal with HD progamming today. Networks have to use older mpeg2 compression, and thats the downfall of that. Close ups will look fine, as there is less color data coming in. Wide shots will look horrible due to the amount of detail and colors being transmitted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/19519002


If you have one DVR how is its output connected to the 3 TVs?

What resoloution do you send SD programs in to you TVs in?

Is shapness on all 3 TVs set to 0? If not try setting it to 0.

Did any of the techs change the cable end connectors for the cable(s) from the dish?

I currently have 2 DVRs (from Dish replacing the 3 I had from Direct). They are connected directly to each tv via HDMI. The third TV (not watched much) is remotely connected, which is new to me with Dish.


I have 1080i resolution being sent, I have messed with setting 720p and have seen no difference.


I have set the sharpness to 0 and that has helped somewhat but also given me a soft picture I don't like either. The question that arises here is that why would I suddenly have to change tv settings when I have had HD for years at the current settings and it has looked great? Just my thoughts.


The last tech that came out ran a brand new cable he made directly from the dish to the tv while running off of a power inverter in his truck. This delivered the same picture - which he said rules out the cabling being bad...??

Thanks for your reply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sitlet /forum/post/19519064


Did they find anything when doing this? that was my first thought, was that the wiring in your house is bad.

When they did this I had exactly the same picture quality. Which in my mind rules out my electrical. Then again I'm certainly no electrician. What do you think?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sitlet /forum/post/19519064


That is normal with HD progamming today. Networks have to use older mpeg2 compression, and thats the downfall of that. Close ups will look fine, as there is less color data coming in. Wide shots will look horrible due to the amount of detail and colors being transmitted.

Have you noticed that getting worse recently? I never noticed it as bad as football is this year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy /forum/post/19519128


It's not your dish or equipment, it's the sad state of broadcast HDTV unless you have FIOS, and even then the network can be the issue. As more and more people start watching Blu-Ray they tend to notice more artifacts in the broadcast signal.


You metioned ESPN/ABC specificly, see this thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1285976

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate everyone's input. The question I have is - why all of a sudden am I REALLY having issues? I guess part of it could be I bought a new LED tv a month ago. But before August of this year I never noticed that much of a problem with my 52" LCD - here and there but a lot of channels looked stellar. Now almost every channel seems to be junk on both tvs. Thanks for the post I will lookup the link.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,223 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexnbig /forum/post/19519099


Have you noticed that getting worse recently? I never noticed it as bad as football is this year.

Yes. There was a thread here where a few people complained about the same, exact thing you did recently, a few days to a week back ("fuzzier", more mosquito noise and blockier).


I only have SD Dish (don't really watch much sports or anything with any action on anything but OTA), but I noticed the same thing starting maybe a little less than a month back. The speculation was that they cut the bits some more on the channels (I've been meaning to check the satellite forums for chatter about it, but I haven't gotten around to it yet).


I was looking through my (SD) "All Channels" guide, to see if they've added any more channels lately, and sure enough - there are quite a few more (SD - mpeg2), mostly useless video channels and a couple of handfuls of Christmas audio ones (mainly English and Spanish - not sure about any other, ethnic channels. Hard to tell). Don't know if that has anything to do with it, but I'm right on the verge of cancelling myself (problem is, I'll lose the one channel that I care about most, which only they carry, and anything alse available here will cost me considerably more).


They're also starting "interactive TV" and some other things that they could've swiped some bandwith for (I don't have HD, but maybe 3D, too?).


I was thinking of e-mailing them. I always do it whenever you can tell they've reduced the quality again (at least on the channels that I watch), and they always try to tell me I should "have my equipment checked" (when I know it's all working perfectly fine). But this time I can at least mention that a lot of other people have noticed the same thing. Might be able to finagle a "discount" out of them, but that wouldn't really be what I'm after.


My SD used to be entirely watchable on my 50" HD (plasma) up until this - but this puts it over the edge now. I'm hardly able to watch anything comfortably anymore (I've got my noise reduction controls all the way up now, but that just adds some crappy artifacts of it's own). It looked pretty good on my 32" CRT before, but it even looks pretty bad on that now, too.


It sure is funny how all of a sudden I and everyone else are getting a bunch of ads from them in the mail lately about "a great deal for upgrading to HD", telling me what a "valued customer" I am (although if the "HD" is even worse now, too, I'm not going to fall for that. I can't even handle sports on the "free", OTA channels here anymore).


Really, I just find myself watching TV less and less because of it. I wish they would just bring back clean SD signals, for those of us who would choose to fall back on it - even analog, because mine were always great - especially OTA. And I wish at least some decent manufacturer still made 36" or 40" (Mitsubishi made a 40" one), 480i CRT's. I'd much rather be watching a good, non-bit-starved, SD broadcast (widescreen or 4:3) of moving action than what I see in supposed *HD* now. Maybe some people are less sensitive to it, but I really can't stomach this stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski /forum/post/19519190


Yes. There was a thread here where a few people complained about the same, exact thing you did recently, a few days to a week back ("fuzzier", more mosquito noise and blockier).


I only have SD Dish, but I noticed the same thing starting maybe a little less than a month back. The speculation was that they cut the bits some more on the channels.


I was looking through my (SD) "All Channels" guide, to see if they've added any more channels lately, and sure enough - there are quite a few more (SD - MPEG2) video channels and a couple of handfuls of Christmas audio ones. Don't know if that has anything to do with it, but I'm right on the verge of cancelling myself.


I was thinking of e-mailing them. I always do it whenever you can tell they've reduced the quality again (at least on the channels that I watch), and they always try to tell me I should "have my equipment" checked. But this time I'm going to mention that a lot of other people have noticed the same thing.


My SD used to be entirely watchable on my 50" HD (plasma) up until this - this just puts it over the edge now. I'm hardly able to watch anything comfortably anymore.


It's kind of funny how all of a sudden I'm getting a bunch of ads directly from them in the mail lately about "upgrading to HD" (although if that's even worse now, too, I'm not going to fall for that).

I'm with you it's crazy we pay what we do to get this kind of quality. The problem for me is that I had the problem on Directv, cancelled now I have the same thing maybe worse on Dish. We have Mediacom cable in my area but I live in a newer development on the edge of town and it's not available to me. Satellite is my only option along with good ol 256k DSL for internet!!


The only good thing is that with the new offers from Dish I'm saving about 50 bucks a month over Direct for the first year anyway.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,822 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexnbig /forum/post/19519208


I'm with you it's crazy we pay what we do to get this kind of quality. The problem for me is that I had the problem on Directv, cancelled now I have the same thing maybe worse on Dish. We have Mediacom cable in my area but I live in a newer development on the edge of town and it's not available to me. Satellite is my only option along with good ol 256k DSL for internet!!


The only good thing is that with the new offers from Dish I'm saving about 50 bucks a month over Direct for the first year anyway.

I agree, I strongly considering OTA only. I can download shows off the web in almost the same crappy quality I get from DishNetwork. If I could find a way to get live sports I'd jump.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,749 Posts
Is it true then that you have no spltters in your system and that each of your TVs receives a separate signal to a separate satellite STB tune unit from your satellite dish using a separate cable?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Is this a common issue with Directv? I am considering switching from Comcast to Directv mainly to save some $$$. But one of my concerns is picture quality. I keep hearing complaints here and other places about picture quality issues and every time the wind blows or it rains a little, the signal goes out. I'm in the San Francisco area and we don't get severe weather. I've never had a signal problem with Comcast in the many years I've been with them and if I have an equipment problem, the Comcast office is a couple of blocks away, I just go and switch it out-something I wouldn't be able to do with Directv. I just don't want to switch to Directv or Dish to save some $$$ and receive a product that I am going to continually have issues with.


Thanks!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,822 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/19519996


Is it true then that you have no spltters in your system and that each of your TVs receives a separate signal to a separate satellite STB tune unit from your satellite dish using a separate cable?

Yes, mostly true. DishNetwork can feed two TVs from one STB (one HD and one SD). So I only have 2 boxes feeding 4 TVs (2SD and 2HD). Going from the STB box to the other TV just uses your existing inwall coax cabling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,223 Posts
I don't have Direct (and never have), but recently I've gone to an appliance store a couple of times that has it showing on about 30 TV's.


Each time they were showing a different program in HD, but across all TV's. It looked exactly the same on all of them - and I mean exactly (mostly LCD's, but at least a couple of plasmas - and all over 32").


It wasn't fast-action, but I couldn't believe my eyes at the lack of detail in the PQ. Most SD-DVD's I've seen show a heck of a lot more detail. To anyone who has it, is that generally how it is now? If it varied on different TV's, I'd be suspect of the TV settings, but it was exactly the same on all 30 of them - and both times I was there, with different programming (it was sharp enough - just lacked any fine detail at all).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/19519996


Is it true then that you have no spltters in your system and that each of your TVs receives a separate signal to a separate satellite STB tune unit from your satellite dish using a separate cable?

Yes that is how my system is setup. Except for the least used tv - with the new Dish system it is split from another DVR. Not real sure how that works yet as I haven't used that tv and just got Dish installed this week.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski /forum/post/19520180


I don't have Direct (and never have), but recently I've gone to an appliance store a couple of times that has it showing on about 30 TV's.


Each time they were showing a different program in HD, but across all TV's. It looked exactly the same on all of them - and I mean exactly (mostly LCD's, but at least a couple of plasmas - and all over 32").


It wasn't fast-action, but I couldn't believe my eyes at the lack of detail in the PQ. Most SD-DVD's I've seen show a heck of a lot more detail. To anyone who has it, is that generally how it is now? If it varied on different TV's, I'd be suspect of the TV settings, but it was exactly the same on all 30 of them - and both times I was there, with different programming (it was sharp enough - just lacked any fine detail at all).

Yes I see the same problem on all of my tv's. Although I will say more pronounced on one than the others. The biggest problem is the mosquito noise or "fuzz" as I call it around the edges of lettering and players in sporting events. Also in dark scenes there is almost like a fading or a blocky look. Many times people's faces will be digitized.


That being said I watched a couple shows today (after suffering through the ridiculous looking football) that looked pretty decent - but nowhere near what it looked like 6 months ago even.


I've had satellite with Directv for many years - the HD was always what I considered acceptable until just recently. In the past several months it is hideous.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,749 Posts
Some thoughts.

ABC, FOX and ESPN HD broadcast in 720p, CBS and NBC HD broadcast in 1080i, SD channels broadcast in 480i.

Is their any possibiiity that the signal to your dish is being reflected from another building or through some trees?

It appears that both Dish and DirecTV have cut the level of detail they are provding by reducing the bits from what they receive from their sources in order to add more channels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/19523156


Some thoughts.

ABC, FOX and ESPN HD broadcast in 720p, CBS and NBC HD broadcast in 1080i, SD channels broadcast in 480i.

I have noticed Sunday night football on NBC is considerably better than ESPN - but it has issues as well. I still get the "fuzz" around moving players and around lettering on the screen. But I don't seem to have nearly the problems with the hazy look in the crowd or blurriness to the overall picture. One example, on NBC last night I was able to see the chunks of field and the texture. On the college games on ABC Saturday it was not clear enough to notice that. I watched Boardwalk Empire on HBO last night and it lacked detail so badly it looked as though it was SD. Dark scenes had terrible noise.


I live in a new development and only have one house directly next to or across from me - there are no tall buildings anywhere in the line of sight. We also don't have any mature trees in the area. Both installers from Direct and Dish have said it's a prime area for great satellite signals because it's wide open.


Is the general consensus that in 2010 the satellite companies and/or tv stations made a major change that affects the picture I'm seeing. Up until about June of this year I had very little complaints (with exceptions) about the quality.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,822 Posts
I think it is just an ongoing watering down of the quality as new channels get added. But for me I seem to always complain the most come fall, which is probably when I start watching a lot more TV (NFL, NCAA FB, NCAA BB, NBA). So I think it may seem worse as I don't watch much TV in the summer, other than some Blu-Rays and then I go to the pixelated mess that is HD sports today. Back 8 years ago I don't recall seeing this artifacts. Not sure how much is the watering down or how much is me being more critical as I've seen more HD.
 

·
AVS Forum Special Member
Joined
·
11,139 Posts
This review of the new Samsung mentions various viewing problems. There are often negative comments throughout AVS forums about using 240-Hz 'smoothing' modes with motion; interpolation to generate new frames isn't that good with consumer gear. LCDs often receive negative comments involving motion artifacts.


Noticed with a test Blu-ray (Spears & Munsil) that my plasma display produced aliasing (periodic darker bars) with the higher-resolution multiburst test patterns, but the aliasing vanished when I selected 1:1 mode. (Learned I had to set 1:1 individually for each input, not universally.). For any set, such aliasing (from scaling)might appear as finer-detail artifacts.


Might try viewing HDNet's Saturday am resolution-wedges (if subscribed) and use this technique to measure maximum effective horizontal resolution. Even if Dish is downrezzing, as some posts claim, suspect you should still measure 1300--1400 lines maximum (16x9) as many cable subscribers have in years past here. Static test patterns shouldn't have any artifacts or excess noise. Recall there are moving arrows briefly on the wedges (last 4 minutes of 10 minute patterns), and they shouldn't blur, but might with a 240-Hz (or similar) 'motion-smoothing' mode. While Time Warner Cable has dropped HDNet, still have a 5-year-old DVR of its patterns--useful if I suspect something's wrong in the viewing chain. -- John
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top