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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I set up my new HP PL5060N plasma TV this week, got everything working the way I wanted and then went to the Harmony web site to reconfigure my 676 remote control. I also changed to a different DVD player and Cox (Moto) DVR. I downloaded my new configuration and everything works except my new TV. I know it is not a download issue because the other two devices have no problems at all. The descriptions or labels of the keys seems to be accurate (such as the names of all the PL5060N inputs or special function keys). Whatever commands were downloaded from Harmony database just don't work either in "device" or "activities". Has anyone else run into a similar situation? My next step is to download the PL4260 TV instead. I doubt there is any difference between the two TVs as far as the remote control is concerned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsenter /forum/post/0


Can you turn TV on and off with Harmony in device mode?

Did you try to learn some TV's commands, like on/off?

I guess it's a good idea to try different model.

Actually I can use the Harmony to turn the TV off but it won't go back on again either with "ON" command or "Pwr Toggle". I've learned the "channel up/down" commands that seem to work. Changing inputs with activities functions does absolutely nothing. In fact I can't even get inputs to change using device commands. I don't think trying different Harmony models is the answer. I doubt there is very much difference in the basic firmware Harmony uses in all their products.
 

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Is it all commands for that TV or just the power toggle?


Have you tried adjusting the repeat counts and delays via the troubleshooting section for that Device?


If that still doesn't work, call Harmony tech support and they will fix it for you, even to the extent of going in and editing the commands if necessary. If they need you to re-"learn" any commands they will walk you through that.


I suggest you start with the power toggle command as a sample. Whatever works to fix that will likely work for the others as well. If you need to re-"learn" it, do it with a new name such as "PowerToggleRAW" so that the original database command is still in there for comparison.


The database entries are only as good as the information they are given, the care taken in entering them, and the feedback they get from owners like you. It is quite possible the database entries for your TV are simply wrong for one reason or another, in which case they will correct them. But it could also be something simpler like having to raise the repeat count in the Harmony for that Device before the TV will recognize that a command is being sent to it.

--Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau /forum/post/0


Is it all commands for that TV or just the power toggle?


Have you tried adjusting the repeat counts and delays via the troubleshooting section for that Device?


If that still doesn't work, call Harmony tech support and they will fix it for you, even to the extent of going in and editing the commands if necessary. If they need you to re-"learn" any commands they will walk you through that.


I suggest you start with the power toggle command as a sample. Whatever works to fix that will likely work for the others as well. If you need to re-"learn" it, do it with a new name such as "PowerToggleRAW" so that the original database command is still in there for comparison.


The database entries are only as good as the information they are given, the care taken in entering them, and the feedback they get from owners like you. It is quite possible the database entries for your TV are simply wrong for one reason or another, in which case they will correct them. But it could also be something simpler like having to raise the repeat count in the Harmony for that Device before the TV will recognize that a command is being sent to it.

--Bob

Bob,


Your post is encouraging because I was begininng to feel a little isolated and blazing new trails with Harmony and the new Hewlett Packard TVs. Actually NONE of the commands downloaded from the Harmony database work...not even the numbers. When I went to the device learning program I taught the remote "power toggle" and "channel up/down" commands from the HP remote just as a test. The channel up/dn commands worked but the toggle would only turn the TV off but not back on again. I spent an hour on the phone with the Harmony Tier 1 help desk who basically had me try everything I had already thought of. She got a little frustrated and opened a ticket for Tier 2. They are supposed to contact me soon. I've only had the 676 since Christmas. I've been able to configure it easily for every other device I own and, before I got this HP TV (this week), I had no problems with setting up multiple activities using several devices including my old Panasonic plasma monitor. Until now I just haven't needed to work with repeat commands and delays. I'm a quick study but I really do need the Tier 2 guy to walk me through it I think.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitude /forum/post/0


Bob,


Your post is encouraging because I was begininng to feel a little isolated and blazing new trails with Harmony and the new Hewlett Packard TVs. Actually NONE of the commands downloaded from the Harmony database work...not even the numbers. When I went to the device learning program I taught the remote "power toggle" and "channel up/down" commands from the HP remote just as a test. The channel up/dn commands worked but the toggle would only turn the TV off but not back on again. I spent an hour on the phone with the Harmony Tier 1 help desk who basically had me try everything I had already thought of. She got a little frustrated and opened a ticket for Tier 2. They are supposed to contact me soon. I've only had the 676 since Christmas. I've been able to configure it easily for every other device I own and, before I got this HP TV (this week), I had no problems with setting up multiple activities using several devices including my old Panasonic plasma monitor. Until now I just haven't needed to work with repeat commands and delays. I'm a quick study but I really do need the Tier 2 guy to walk me through it I think.

Take heart and be patient. The Level I support guys just do the basic stuff, but the Level II guys will indeed work with you as long as it takes until the problem is resolved. If necessary, they will call on their group of experts in the command language itself who will actually go in and edit the commands in the configuration file for your TV until things work right.


In the meantime, if you want to try repeat counts they are easy.


Some devices won't accept a command unless they see it multiple times. This is one way they reject commands that are actually intended for some other device.


In the setup program for the Harmony, go to Devices, and the particular device for your new TV. Now select Troubleshooting. It will offer a list of possible problems. Select the one for "show me more problems". It will offer a new page with an item about commands not responding properly. Select that one. It will offer a new page with different ways the commands are not responding properly. Select either the one that says commands happen too many times when you press a button or happen only occassionally when you press a button. It will offer a new page where you can select the repeat count for that device.


The default repeat count is usually 3 for most devices, which is usually more than enough. A repeat of 1 is really all that's needed for most devices, and a repeat of 0 works for many. Lower repeat counts make things faster (more responsive to multiple button presses). Higher repeat counts make things more reliable, but may cause the device to act on the command more than once, which could be a problem with things like Volume Up or Down.


Whatever the current repeat count happens to be, try boosting it up 5 (the highest you can set), reprogram the remote, and see if your TV will now recognize commands issued from its Devices panel on the remote. If so, you can lower repeat count and try again.


Repeat count changes affect just one device, but they affect ALL commands (Device or Activity) aimed at that device. If you find that a high repeat count makes Power work but screws up other things like Volume Up/Down, Harmony support can adjust things in your configuration more finely than you can do yourself.

--Bob
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitude /forum/post/0


Actually I can use the Harmony to turn the TV off but it won't go back on again either with "ON" command or "Pwr Toggle". I've learned the "channel up/down" commands that seem to work. Changing inputs with activities functions does absolutely nothing. In fact I can't even get inputs to change using device commands. I don't think trying different Harmony models is the answer. I doubt there is very much difference in the basic firmware Harmony uses in all their products.

I meant different TV model. Did you try that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau /forum/post/0


Take heart and be patient. The Level I support guys just do the basic stuff, but the Level II guys will indeed work with you as long as it takes until the problem is resolved. If necessary, they will call on their group of experts in the command language itself who will actually go in and edit the commands in the configuration file for your TV until things work right.--Bob

It sounds like I really need to work with the Tier 2 guys to straighten this out. I noticed sometimes when I try to send a command the little LED command indicator light in front of the 676 will often stay lit for 15 to 20 seconds which seems very odd to me. That does not happen with any other device. Whatever they downloaded for me to use with this TV is really whack. Thanks for the input though. It helps to understand how these remotes work when your trying to troubleshoot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsenter /forum/post/0


I meant different TV model. Did you try that?

HP doesn't make many TVs. I think they made a lot of monitors and just recently decided to get into the HDTV business. I did try downloading the commands from the 42 in. version of the same plasma TV (I have the 50). No change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitude /forum/post/0


I noticed sometimes when I try to send a command the little LED command indicator light in front of the 676 will often stay lit for 15 to 20 seconds which seems very odd to me. That does not happen with any other device. Whatever they downloaded for me to use with this TV is really whack. .

Hey...you know what? The HP PL5060N has a power save mode and an instant on mode. The power save mode takes a really long time to power up. I bet the 20 second delay is intended for cold start up. Hmmm.


Also someone sent me this from the plasma forum. HP Plasma Discreet Universal Remote Codes Maybe I can get it to the Harmony help desk next time.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitude /forum/post/0


Hey...you know what? The HP PL5060N has a power save mode and an instant on mode. The power save mode takes a really long time to power up. I bet the 20 second delay is intended for cold start up. Hmmm.


Also someone sent me this from the plasma forum. HP Plasma Discreet Universal Remote Codes Maybe I can get it to the Harmony help desk next time.

You can see what delays the Harmony is set to use for your TV.


Go to the Devices setup for your TV and one of the options will be to see and adjust the delays.


There are 4 delays intended to give your device time to do what it needs to do after specific types of commands.


1) Delay after a power on command sent to this device.

2) Delay after each command (inter-key delay) sent to this device.

3) Delay after a command which selects a new input on this device.

4) Delay after any command sent to some other device before any command to this device gets sent. This gives your device time to realize the prior command to the other device is done so that it stops rejecting any command input under the mistaken belief that it is still part of commands for the other device.


Typically these are set quite high by default. See the first post in the Harmony performance sticky thread at the top of this forum.


It is also, apparently possible for commands in the database, or even commands you learn, to be misidentified according to which delay applies. Harmony support can fix this if that's the case.

--Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau /forum/post/0


Typically these are set quite high by default. See the first post in the Harmony performance sticky thread at the top of this forum.


--Bob

Bob,


I'm finally getting somewhere. The delay for the power on command defaults to 26000 ms. No, that is not a typo. 26 freakin' seconds!!! I guess Harmony thinks I needed to go take a dump before watching TV.
I'd hit the button, get pissed off and walk away when nothing happened. My input keys are working now. I guess I just need to get the input delay set for changing activities. Maybe I can work my way out of this without the help desk.


Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau /forum/post/0


More likely someone asked HP how much delay the TV needed for power up, and HP said 20 seconds or so (i.e., assuming the TV wasn't in "instant on" stand-by), and Harmony bumped that up a bit for safety.


Garbage in, garbage out.

--Bob

I'm still not out of the woods. I can't seem to get the inputs to switch in activities. The input soft keys work in device (at least it worked once which I have learned is no guarantee). I wonder if I should try adding or reducing delay? Or a second command maybe? Maybe I should get back with Tier 2 support.
 

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Recheck how your Activities are set up -- i.e., that you have actually specified the TV needs to change inputs when you change Activities. Recheck how the Inputs are setup for your TV -- i.e., that the correct command is being sent to select each Input. Just start from Troubleshooting and run through the setup again for the Activity -- it won't alter your other button setups.


Next increase your inter-device and inter-key delays for the TV. You may also have to increase the repeat count for your TV. All of this will increase the chance that the TV will see the input change command during the series of commands issued when the Activity starts.


If the Activity is also turning on the TV, then you may need to increase the power on delay for the TV as well. Not up to 26 seconds of course, but something reasonable to give the TV time to get set to process the input change command.


If the command is working from Devices then it can be made to work in the Activity.


Once you've got it working when you enter the Activity you can lower delays until you find the sweet spot that works fast enough to satisfy you but still works reliably.


Again there's some guidance on this stuff in the Harmony performance sticky thread at the top of this forum.

--Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau /forum/post/0


Recheck how your Activities are set up -- i.e., that you have actually specified the TV needs to change inputs when you change Activities. Recheck how the Inputs are setup for your TV -- i.e., that the correct command is being sent to select each Input. Just start from Troubleshooting and run through the setup again for the Activity -- it won't alter your other button setups.


Next increase your inter-device and inter-key delays for the TV. You may also have to increase the repeat count for your TV. All of this will increase the chance that the TV will see the input change command during the series of commands issued when the Activity starts.


If the Activity is also turning on the TV, then you may need to increase the power on delay for the TV as well. Not up to 26 seconds of course, but something reasonable to give the TV time to get set to process the input change command.


If the command is working from Devices then it can be made to work in the Activity.


Once you've got it working when you enter the Activity you can lower delays until you find the sweet spot that works fast enough to satisfy you but still works reliably.


Again there's some guidance on this stuff in the Harmony performance sticky thread at the top of this forum.

--Bob

I'm pretty sure I have all the basic activities stuff down pat. I used this remote with my Panasonic plasma for several weeks before I got the HP TV and everything worked fine. Everything else is switching correctly too(receiver, DVD player etc). I agree it probably has something to do with the input delays and/or repeat commands. I printed out the stickys and will go home and play with things again tonight. It is just frustrating that I had everything working just the way I wanted it (for a total of about ten minutes
) and then decided to upgrade. You know how that story goes.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitude /forum/post/0


I'm pretty sure I have all the basic activities stuff down pat. I used this remote with my Panasonic plasma for several weeks before I got the HP TV and everything worked fine. Everything else is switching correctly too(receiver, DVD player etc). I agree it probably has something to do with the input delays and/or repeat commands. I printed out the stickys and will go home and play with things again tonight. It is just frustrating that I had everything working just the way I wanted it (for a total of about ten minutes
) and then decided to upgrade. You know how that story goes.

You might need to introduce delays between commands sent by remote:

rerun setup (set inputs, devices on/off), but when it asks if this all you want, say"Yes, but I want to add more control of options and devices for this Activity", it will rerun setup again, but don't worry, after a few "next" and "save" it will allow you to add additional actions, like for TV delay after it sent On.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsenter /forum/post/0


You might need to introduce delays between commands sent by remote:

rerun setup (set inputs, devices on/off), but when it asks if this all you want, say"Yes, but I want to add more control of options and devices for this Activity", it will rerun setup again, but don't worry, after a few "next" and "save" it will allow you to add additional actions, like for TV delay after it sent On.

Yeah, that was basically it. Inter-device delay. Everything is working now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsenter /forum/post/0


I'm glad you sorted it out finally.

Yeah the Harmony Tier 2 guy was very helpful and quick. I'm not sure why they make you suffer through the Tier 1. Tier 1 support must be a training program of some kind. They must work strictly from menus and flow diagrams.


I learned a couple of interesting things about my TV. The tier 2 guy told me right off that my codes were different from everybody else. "Every other TV in the universe or every other HP TV in your database" I asked and was told the latter. This explains why nothing worked the first time. Apparently HP had just recently changed to a new coding scheme in mid-production of their plasma displays. Also interesting was the Tier 2 guy told me he had some kind of analyzer he could use to simulate my configuration for troubleshooting.
 
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