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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone purchased a Proceed PMDT with the PVP card? If so, are you happy with your purchase?


The PVP card is supposed to up-convert 480i signals to 480P. I am curious as to how much the PVP cleans up the picture?


Thanks for your help. :)
 

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Sir


A lot would have to do with what sort of display you would be watching it on; also, be aware that a costly playback device is not necessarily high-performance, or the most performance for the dollar spent:


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Dull normal TV broadcasts, as seen for many years, must adhere to a transmission standard established by the National Television Standards Committee, hence the use of the acronym "NTSC" to describe the signal which is 480i, or 480 tv lines, interlaced. The signal is sent 60 times a second; on the first pass lines 1,3,5,7 ...... are transmitted, then the scan retraces back to the top of the frame and lines 2, 4, 6, 8 ..... are sent. It takes two vertical sweeps, a pair every 30th of a second, to draw 480 visible lines at 30 frames per second. Due to the limits of human vision, this happens fast enough that it appears mostly as seamless motion. The NTSC system is also referred to as 525 lines, but only 480 lines have visible pixels; the rest are blanked, used for VITS or captioning, or are lost to retrace. 480i looks okay on a 25" tv from ten feet away, but when you magnify it on a quality projector one can clearly see gaps and jitter between the scan lines, the image is not continuous or filmlike. A doubler will sample the 480i signal, digitize it in memory briefly, then draw the image with all 480 lines every 60th of a second. Now we have 480 progressive, and scan lines become less intrusive, at least on a seven inch CRT. However, eight and nine inch CRTs have more potential resolution, and usually feature higher bandwidth and superior lenses. A good eight inch projector is capable enough to resolve gaps between scan lines at 480p; to eliminate these pesky gaps it requires drawing more scan lines per frame; 720p is usually sufficient, this is line-tripling. Triplers are more sophisticated, and good ones are usually $4000 and up. Just drawing more lines isn't enough, the accuracy of colors and fine details must be recreated digitally to avoid distracting artifacts. Some nine inch CRTs will still show gaps at 720p so a line quadrupler is often specified; it samples the same 480i at the input but outputs it in more lines per frame. This is harder to engineer than a tripler so a good quadrupler is usually costly, $5000 and up. The HTPC has generated much excitement by making scaling of DVD playback very affordable and with superb results; as input cards for PCs become improved it may be possible to do quality scaling entirely in the PC. Many of us are very excited about the proliferation of HDTV; High Definition Televsion inherently uses more lines per frame, with shorter raster heights that pack the scan lines close together; this requires the use of more bandwidth to transmit, the image quality is stunning. 1080i and 720p are currently the formats most widely used by HD broadcasters.

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I posted that earlier on the CRT Forum in response to someone who wanted to know the difference between scalers, line doublers, and quadruplers. My business here at E-Tech Phoenix is rebuilding Marquee projectors, also sold by others as the Madrigal MP series and the Vidikron Vision series. I like to think I know a few things about build quality, image quality, and value in terms of performance for the amount you might spend on a given product. Do I worry about offending those who offer high-priced products that lack performance? Don't bet on it. I have not seen or worked with a Proceed PMDT; if it is part of the Madrigal/Levinson family of products I expect it is very costly; that may not help in terms of getting you the performance you seek. Think about this: About nine months ago, a nice lady called me from Ayre Audio, asking would I be interested in selling their $6500 (+) DVD player. I asked her a few questions about the product, and politely declined the opportunity. Why? you ask? Anyone well-heeled enough to shell out $6500 for a DVD player probably has a nine-inch CRT projector to view it on, but it is a lousy combination. The Ayre unit only outputs 480p, as does the PMDT. So what? Well, any competant nine-inch CRT will be brutally revealing of scan lines at 480p; those projectors shine best at 720p to 1080p, depending on which guru you ask. The finest scaled image I have yet seen in action is an HTPC with a Radeon card, running 720p, and costing all of $2000 to assemble. Do not be seduced into believing that high cost is high performance, you could be very dissapointed at the results.
 

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It'd probably be a good idea to do a search across AVS for info on the PMDT. I think you'll come across a number of threads about problems people have run into with the unit itself--not that it doesn't provide a fantastic image, great sound, etc., but rather that some units have been problem-prone. There've also been questions about the quality of support available (you need to have a good dealer).


Just FYI.


Oh--you might place a post in the DVD forum as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I am currently looking at either a Mitsubishi Diamond or a Pioneer Elite RPTV, so I am not going to be able to do 720P or 1080P. I am pretty sure that the sets will only do 480P. I know that the 73" Mitsubishi Diamond has 9" CRT's, but I have not checked on the Pioneer yet.


Basically I am looking for the best possible picture I can get on either a Pioneer Elite or a Mitsubishi Diamond RPTV. Any suggestions on what I can do?
 

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sma779s:

I am currently using the PMDT with an Elite 510HD although my signal is routed through a Faroudja NRS that gives me 540p instead of 480p. Turns out 540p is a sweetspot for either the Mits or Pio RPTV's. There was a noticeable improvement when I upgraded my NRS from 480p to 540p. Just some food for thought.

My PMDT was bought new early this year. There are numerous threads in the forum with very ugly stories about problems experienced by PMDT owners. I don't doubt them for a moment. I can tell you that my experience, thankfully, has been different. No major operational problems. Even though I can't play Dinosaur the PMDT is a superb performer in both audio and video.

I realize you were looking for someone who has the progressive card and that's not me. But the difference may not be as much as you think. The NRS can easily be had in the low $3k range, sometimes less. And you get Faroudja processing, DCDi along with 540p.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Bob P


ps: fyi, I just noted a new PMDT just sold on Audiogon for $4400 w/prog card.
 

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Have you consider the Camelot Tech Roundtable MK1 or MK2? It uses the DVDO deinterlace chip which is supposed to be very good. And with the MK2 you can a pair of upsampled 24/192K DACs to boot at the same price as the PMDT.


I personally have not used either player, but just want to suggest an alternative to consider.


I am currently using a SONY DVP-S9000ES with a SONY VW-10HT projector via its progressive scan output. The DVD player was modded by Dan Wright for some audio circuits but a pair of bybees were added to the AC main inputs so I suspect there is some benefit to the video circuit as well. In the meantime, I added a BPT BP2.5U balanced power conditioner. With these two changes, I would say that I am very satisfied with the picture right now. I always thought that the black level of the LCD projector was pretty bad and get ready to jump to DLP but now I think the black level contrast is noticably better and think that I can live with this setup for a few more years. I am seeing more details in the picture and less video noise.


What I am trying to say is, there may be improvements to be have with a relatively small investment to modify your current equipment. At the end, you may be happier with the results than to purchase a $5K DVD/CD transport.
 
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