Processor for 24/96
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Add Theta Casanove, and the new Theta Casablanca 2 just coming out.
It's interesting to note that if you call up Burr Brown and ask them what their best dac, they'll tell you their 20bit 1702 not any of their 24bit dacs (1704, etc). The 20bit 1702 will actually resolve more bits than the 24bit 1704 given the same signal! I'm not sure what the hype is all about over 24/96.. AFAIK, you aren't legally allow to spew out 24/96 data over spdif. (check TM FAW at www.eadcorp.com)
Rob
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Migliore Theater
Rob
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Migliore Theater
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Theta can only do a few at a time, with limited staff, and word is that shortly the upgrade should be announced. I'm not holding my breath waiting.
So, EAD is posting false information on their website?
Only in the spring of the year 2000 will DVD audio transports offer 24/96 digital outputs. These outputs will employ 1394
Firewire--not SP/DIF. there are NO surround-sound processors currently compatible with this 1394 format, which is only
beginning to be developed. Any claims of 24/96 compatibility are therefore completely misleading. EAD hopes to be the
first to offer such compatibility when the format is finalized. Therefore, people buying processors have no reason to worry
about 24/96 decoding until spring of 2000.
The six Burr-Brown DACs in EAD's Ovation and Signature cost $28.00 each. The 24 bit DACs in many DVD players
and processors often cost $2 each or less, and have a resolving level of only 16 bits. If you ask Burr-Brown ( widely
considered the best DAC manufacturer in the world), they will tell you the PCM 1702--the DAC used in EAD's
TheaterMaster--is their top-of-the-line DAC. Their less expensive 24 bit DACs are less effective. You can feed them
24 bits of data, but they only output 16 bits of analog resolution! EAD has not seen fit to pursue this low-cost
compromise.
No surround-sound processor besides EAD has a Digital Flywheel TM or equivalent reclocking circuitry. Therefore, no
other processor, no matter how expensive or good the DACs, can achieve 14 bits of resolution, even on 24 bit material.
Only TheaterMaster Ovation and Signature offer this essential reclocking circuitry.
As previously mentioned, no processor can offer true 24 bit performance. This is because transports are limited by law (
thanks to a new, heavy handed crack-down by the RIAA) to a maximum of 16 bits and 48 Khz. Normal SP/DIF outputs
( like coaxial, toslink and ST-glass) will NEVER output more. This has been established! The 24/96 DVD audio players
due this fall, will have no digital outputs, or will downmix their outputs to 16/48. they will only have poor quality analog
outputs using cheap internal DACs.
Therefore we recommend that if you are shopping for a transport or wanting a 24/96 upgrade for your TheaterMaster,
that you wait until the stable, final, industry standard is established in Spring of 2000.
Rob
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Migliore Theater
Only in the spring of the year 2000 will DVD audio transports offer 24/96 digital outputs. These outputs will employ 1394
Firewire--not SP/DIF. there are NO surround-sound processors currently compatible with this 1394 format, which is only
beginning to be developed. Any claims of 24/96 compatibility are therefore completely misleading. EAD hopes to be the
first to offer such compatibility when the format is finalized. Therefore, people buying processors have no reason to worry
about 24/96 decoding until spring of 2000.
The six Burr-Brown DACs in EAD's Ovation and Signature cost $28.00 each. The 24 bit DACs in many DVD players
and processors often cost $2 each or less, and have a resolving level of only 16 bits. If you ask Burr-Brown ( widely
considered the best DAC manufacturer in the world), they will tell you the PCM 1702--the DAC used in EAD's
TheaterMaster--is their top-of-the-line DAC. Their less expensive 24 bit DACs are less effective. You can feed them
24 bits of data, but they only output 16 bits of analog resolution! EAD has not seen fit to pursue this low-cost
compromise.
No surround-sound processor besides EAD has a Digital Flywheel TM or equivalent reclocking circuitry. Therefore, no
other processor, no matter how expensive or good the DACs, can achieve 14 bits of resolution, even on 24 bit material.
Only TheaterMaster Ovation and Signature offer this essential reclocking circuitry.
As previously mentioned, no processor can offer true 24 bit performance. This is because transports are limited by law (
thanks to a new, heavy handed crack-down by the RIAA) to a maximum of 16 bits and 48 Khz. Normal SP/DIF outputs
( like coaxial, toslink and ST-glass) will NEVER output more. This has been established! The 24/96 DVD audio players
due this fall, will have no digital outputs, or will downmix their outputs to 16/48. they will only have poor quality analog
outputs using cheap internal DACs.
Therefore we recommend that if you are shopping for a transport or wanting a 24/96 upgrade for your TheaterMaster,
that you wait until the stable, final, industry standard is established in Spring of 2000.
Rob
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Migliore Theater
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I always thought the Lexicon MC-1 was 24/96 capable, but it is not really. Quote from Lexicon's web site "96/24 digital direct inputs reserved for future use"
Apparently it has hardware support, but they are not being used?
Buddy
Apparently it has hardware support, but they are not being used?
Buddy
Hi Peter,
Please continue we're all "standing still" waiting for a more detailed response. Please cover the 16 channel possibilities at this point, with the audio sources, transports and PC cards that are/ will be available on this spheroid mass.
Thanks
rich
Please continue we're all "standing still" waiting for a more detailed response. Please cover the 16 channel possibilities at this point, with the audio sources, transports and PC cards that are/ will be available on this spheroid mass.
Thanks
rich
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Yes, EAD are posting false information. Pretty much all Pioneers will output 24/96 digital, as will the Thetas (modified Pioneers). Some Panasonic models will too, as will some Denons (modified Panasonics).
Some of the processors above, however, do not have 24/96 Dacs but can still handle a 24/96 signal. The Sony for one does this, although I understand the 777ES has true 24/96 DACs.
Steve
Some of the processors above, however, do not have 24/96 Dacs but can still handle a 24/96 signal. The Sony for one does this, although I understand the 777ES has true 24/96 DACs.
Steve
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Panarmax,quit saying that,the robot will hear and come back and destroy the earth! And I should know I've got a bitchin' Camaro and a bitchin' motto! My Marantz 9000 and Denon 2500 claim to have 24/96.OK,I lied about the Camaro but Hondas look alot like Camaros! Anybody could make that mistake.Have you seen any Goths lately?
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Ms. Bitchlist
El teatro de casa es mucho cultura!
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Ms. Bitchlist
El teatro de casa es mucho cultura!
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22,573 Posts
Jay, you missed it re the Casablanca. Theta's web site has a full section on features of Casablanca 2, and if you have the Superior (most expensive) DACs, you can choose Superior DACs for each and every channel and then each Superior DAC will do 96/24.
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A few comments about the EAD text.
If a DVD tells the player to downcovert 96/24 to 48/24, then the player must do it. Now since none of the current 96/24 DVDs have that flag set, we have no idea if any player will truly listen.
The Meridian 800 is allowed to pass 96/24 signals even if that flag is set. It uses an approved encyrption scheme. (its a temp thing until 1394 or whatever is used is out.) Now if you turn off their encyrption and the disc tells the player to downcovert, the 800 will listen and only output a 48/24 signal.
1394 has its own set of problems. Try 100 times more jitten than the S/PDIF interface. Don't believe the BS about what goes in is exactly what comes out. Though I am sure with EADs flywheel, Thetas jitter jail, and all other types of technology, its a moot point.
Oops, I misread the EAD post. They are talking about DVD-A players will not output 96/24 through S/PDIF, not DVD-V. that is most likely true except for an exception or two. (I know of at least one) None of the SACD players will output 96/24 though S/PDIF.
[This message has been edited by sspears (edited June 12, 2000).]
If a DVD tells the player to downcovert 96/24 to 48/24, then the player must do it. Now since none of the current 96/24 DVDs have that flag set, we have no idea if any player will truly listen.
The Meridian 800 is allowed to pass 96/24 signals even if that flag is set. It uses an approved encyrption scheme. (its a temp thing until 1394 or whatever is used is out.) Now if you turn off their encyrption and the disc tells the player to downcovert, the 800 will listen and only output a 48/24 signal.
1394 has its own set of problems. Try 100 times more jitten than the S/PDIF interface. Don't believe the BS about what goes in is exactly what comes out. Though I am sure with EADs flywheel, Thetas jitter jail, and all other types of technology, its a moot point.
Oops, I misread the EAD post. They are talking about DVD-A players will not output 96/24 through S/PDIF, not DVD-V. that is most likely true except for an exception or two. (I know of at least one) None of the SACD players will output 96/24 though S/PDIF.
[This message has been edited by sspears (edited June 12, 2000).]
Here I go again w/ cut and paste!
As I've said, the Pioneers and Theta (Pioneer Transports)
put out 24bit / 96KHz digital data. Supposedly some older Panasonics
did as well.
Not to be argumentative, but how do you know its putting out 24/96 over the digital interface? was it the feature list? did the processor tell you its receiving a 24/96 signal? It seems possible that they could careful word the products description..
Item 2(DAC Costs):
As to the cost differential, that's EADs design choice. Many
outstanding competing units use Crystal Semiconductor DACS, not
the Burr-Browns.
The less expensive encore uses crystal semi DACs.
Item 3 (EADs Digital Flywheel):
Time for EAD to update their marketing technobabble. Theta's Casablanca II
has Jitter Jail, which is a RAM buffer used for reclocking. I'm betting
it'll trickle down to the Casanova II when it's released.
Agreed. Though I have a feeling they don't consider a RAM buffer a jitter reduction circuit. Its more like a jitter reduction device, rather than a circuit (like a full-blown Phase Lock Loop). They prolly both work well. Yep, Market babble.
Hey, I'm no longer defending - I'm asking/challenging!
Rob
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Migliore Theater
As I've said, the Pioneers and Theta (Pioneer Transports)
put out 24bit / 96KHz digital data. Supposedly some older Panasonics
did as well.
Not to be argumentative, but how do you know its putting out 24/96 over the digital interface? was it the feature list? did the processor tell you its receiving a 24/96 signal? It seems possible that they could careful word the products description..
Item 2(DAC Costs):
As to the cost differential, that's EADs design choice. Many
outstanding competing units use Crystal Semiconductor DACS, not
the Burr-Browns.
The less expensive encore uses crystal semi DACs.
Item 3 (EADs Digital Flywheel):
Time for EAD to update their marketing technobabble. Theta's Casablanca II
has Jitter Jail, which is a RAM buffer used for reclocking. I'm betting
it'll trickle down to the Casanova II when it's released.
Agreed. Though I have a feeling they don't consider a RAM buffer a jitter reduction circuit. Its more like a jitter reduction device, rather than a circuit (like a full-blown Phase Lock Loop). They prolly both work well. Yep, Market babble.
Hey, I'm no longer defending - I'm asking/challenging!
Rob
------------------
Migliore Theater
Joined
·
1,226 Posts
Back to Processors,
Just had my EVS "Millenium" DAC delivered on Friday. Still in "Burn in" phase but first impressions were very encouraging. I would also look at some of the Perpetual Technologies products if I were in the market for a 24/96 processor. http://www.tweakaudio.com/index.html
http://www.perpetualtechnologies.com
Note: I am currently using my old Audio Alchemy transport so I'm not "exporting" a 24/96 signal. Rumour has it that Perpetual Tech. will be coming out with a muti-audioformat capable DVD Transport. Can't wait!!
Haven't tried my panasonic 110 yet.
Just had my EVS "Millenium" DAC delivered on Friday. Still in "Burn in" phase but first impressions were very encouraging. I would also look at some of the Perpetual Technologies products if I were in the market for a 24/96 processor. http://www.tweakaudio.com/index.html
http://www.perpetualtechnologies.com
Note: I am currently using my old Audio Alchemy transport so I'm not "exporting" a 24/96 signal. Rumour has it that Perpetual Tech. will be coming out with a muti-audioformat capable DVD Transport. Can't wait!!
Haven't tried my panasonic 110 yet.
Quote:
Klaatu, verada, nikto
this phrase was also used in the movie Army of Darkness
| Originally posted by PANARAMAX: Magnus: I had just watched the Movie The Day The Earth Stood Still, the whole climax of the movie is resolved by the relaying of that message. |
this phrase was also used in the movie Army of Darkness
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This discussion about the capabilities of current DVD players misses EAD's point. migliore's quote from EAD shows that they were talking about "DVD audio transports," not necessarily standard DVD players. Since there are as yet no available DVD Audio transports in the U.S., the quote is correct. And it is also true that DVD Audio players will generally not put out multiple-channel audio via a digital output, except perhaps by using firewire or some proprietary scheme including encription.
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