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Discussion Starter #1

Renovating 5,000 square foot home and was quoted bor both Proficiant and Episode Speakers from different installers.  I have 3 surround sound areas 5.1 and 4 other areas for speakers for music.  Also what is your advice of using sound bar vs in wall speakers (for bedroom).  Family Room is very echoy as it's huge with 2 story ceiling, TV is on one side, I was thinking of 3 in wall speakers then having other 2 on far wall which is 40 feet away.  We are putting in 4 wood beams across ceiling vault which hopefully will help with echos.
 

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Put up some acoustic absorption panels that are aesthetically pleasing for your rooms design.


In wall speakers can be better than free standing, so of course blow away soundbars with their tiny cabinets and drivers.
 

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Discussion Starter #3

Are Episode Speakers better then Proficient?  For the great room would 700 series be recommended or could I stick with 500 for cost (doing 500 in kitchen and 300 in dining room)
 

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If the great room is going to be very "echoey" than I wouldn't waste my money on better speakers. The room is as important as the speakers. You can put the best speaker in the world in a racquetball court and it will still sound like garbage. If you are not going to tame the room then go for the lesser speaker.


Epsidoe vs Proficient I don't know. I had some episode monitor 700 I liked a lot but can't comment on the in wall stuff. They were very nice speakers for the price. I would prefer in walls over a sound bar unless you can't place the in walls in good locations.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmd1117  /t/1527077/proficient-or-episode-speakers-echos-in-room/0_100#post_24600909


Are Episode Speakers better then Proficient?  For the great room would 700 series be recommended or could I stick with 500 for cost (doing 500 in kitchen and 300 in dining room)
Episode Speakers: if these are preferred by some installers, you should find out why.

Personally, I don't care for:

Low sensitivity: I hope they're planning on some big amps for you

Frequency spec: -6db point listed instead of -3db point

Claim excepionally flat but no graphs

No info on directivity control

Emphasis on the dual gold binding posts (the only other photo for each speaker)

No info on whether inwall uses backer box or not


Link to which speaker they are proposing on.


Proficient Audio

This in wall woofer tweeter woofer? http://www.proficientaudio.com/products/home-theater/inwall-lcr-speakers/iw630-inwall-lcr-speaker

It's more sensitive than the Episodes but can handle less power. Both companies seem less suitable for your room.

The freq response spec doesn't tell us the -3d or -6db point so it's useless.

No info on directivity either

Their photo representing the Home Theater line of speakers uses an in-ceiling?


Find out from installers why these speakers (again, link us to the model) are suited for your room and needs' challenges.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttlnb  /t/1527077/proficient-or-episode-speakers-echos-in-room/0_100#post_24601518


If the great room is going to be very "echoey" than I wouldn't waste my money on better speakers. The room is as important as the speakers. You can put the best speaker in the world in a racquetball court and it will still sound like garbage. If you are not going to tame the room then go for the lesser speaker.

Floyd Toole writes that speakers with well controlled directivity don't need first reflection absorption. Whenever I see rooms with:

Missing one side wall so assymetrical reflections

Hard surfaces

Large dimensions

Importance for multiple audience experience


I think of controlled directivity.

Across as much of the frequency spectrum, how consistently is the energy directed forward in an even pattern without beaming and lobing?


This means larger speakers with waveguides. They should be fairly sensitive and high power handling.

JTR, Tannoy, JBL, Triad, QSC, etc.
 

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Lastly, surround speakers in 5.1 should be to your sides. If they were speccing surrounds on rear wall so far back...why?


If they couldn't be to side, I think I'd pick in-ceilings that are aimable. Try Triad's.
 

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I don't know how well In ceilings would work with two story high ceilings. I am not sure how tall his ceilings but that could be 16-20 feet high.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmd1117  /t/1527077/proficient-or-episode-speakers-echos-in-room#post_24600298


Renovating 5,000 square foot home and was quoted bor both Proficiant and Episode Speakers from different installers.  I have 3 surround sound areas 5.1 and 4 other areas for speakers for music.  Also what is your advice of using sound bar vs in wall speakers (for bedroom).  Family Room is very echoy as it's huge with 2 story ceiling, TV is on one side, I was thinking of 3 in wall speakers then having other 2 on far wall which is 40 feet away.  We are putting in 4 wood beams across ceiling vault which hopefully will help with echos.

How far will you be sitting back from the front speakers?


40 feet away for the surrounds is too far


Need some decorative acoustic treatments, to also help tame the echo


I do not prefer Proficient or Episode
 

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Discussion Starter #10

18 feet high ceiings so speakers on ceilings really wouldn't work unless we embedded speaker in a Truss (Hollow wood beams going across ceiling, already have led uplighting in them)? Eyeleron, Wish you were closer to do install. 

~~larger speakers with waveguides, sensitive and high power handling. JTR, Tannoy, JBL, Triad, QSC, etc?  (Would these be stand alone, put in cabinet with wire mesh so hidden, or in wall)?  Link to ones you mean?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmd1117  /t/1527077/proficient-or-episode-speakers-echos-in-room#post_24602111


Maybe I should just put 3 speakers in front or soundbar and skip surround sound in this room

3.1 can work in that room - have a more dedicated surround sound, in a room somewhere else.


A soundbar would be my last option - how far do you plan to sit back from the viewing area?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttlnb  /t/1527077/proficient-or-episode-speakers-echos-in-room/0_50#post_24601827


I don't know how well In ceilings would work with two story high ceilings. I am not sure how tall his ceilings but that could be 16-20 feet high.
Good point. Maybe increase separation laterally would give enough separation between surround left and surround right? At least surrounds are often more diffused, so this would be diffusion via distance. Not so good if you need more discrete surrounds like in multi-channel music. 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01  /t/1527077/proficient-or-episode-speakers-echos-in-room/0_50#post_24602100


Need some decorative acoustic treatments, to also help tame the echo

 
Maybe these?  http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/acoustiart-sound-absorbing-panels

Photo Gallery:  http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/acoustiart-photo-gallery-ii/display_lightbox/prod_827

Example: 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmd1117  /t/1527077/proficient-or-episode-speakers-echos-in-room/0_50#post_24602102

 

18 feet high ceiings so speakers on ceilings really wouldn't work unless we embedded speaker in a Truss (Hollow wood beams going across ceiling, already have led uplighting in them)? Eyeleron, Wish you were closer to do install. 

~~larger speakers with waveguides, sensitive and high power handling. JTR, Tannoy, JBL, Triad, QSC, etc?  (Would these be stand alone, put in cabinet with wire mesh so hidden, or in wall)?  Link to ones you mean?
I'm not an installer. Just thinking of speakers that don't splash sound in areas you don't want. 

Typically, most consumer speakers are a combination of a light bulb that lights up surfaces in all directions, and a flash light, with a hot spot in center, and some other bright areas, and a lot of fall-off to sides. Some frequencies of sound will radiate one way, and other frequencies a different way, and they'll combine in weird ways that yields an uneven frequency response.  

This can be okay if one person is perfectly placed in room. And if the reflections of sound off of your room surfaces were mitigated by stopping the sound from echoing off of them. 

 

But for multiple people, with an untreated room, you want (to return to the light analogy) more of an even cone spot that casts even light out at 45-90 degrees and puts less sound on floor, walls, ceiling. 

 

Still, the echoes of such a space make it uncomfortable for people to live in, so thick wall hangings, area rugs with thick pad, furniture, etc. need to absorb and break up the echoes.

 

JTR:  http://jtrspeakers.com

JBL:  http://jblpro.com/www/products/Installed-sound/ or http://www.jblsynthesis.com/downloads/products/prod_107_634485058296831634_Syn%20In-Wall%20PI%20-%20S4%20Brochure.pdf   http://www.jblsynthesis.com/downloads/products/prod_102_634484976023180682_SK2-3300%20QSpecs.pdf

Tannoy: DC12i:  http://tannoypro.com/#Page=Product&Id=71.294 http://tannoypro.com/WebServices/dh.ashx?t=qv&v=3047

Triad: Inwall Gold:  http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/iwg6lcr.html or  http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/irplcr.html

        in Ceiling:  http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/icg8ose.html  

 

QSC: Cinema Speakers:  http://qsc.com/products/speakers/dcs/ or monitor:  http://qsc.com/products/Loudspeakers/KW_Series/KW122/

Klipsch in-wall:  http://www.klipsch.com/kl-6504-thx-in-wall-speaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmd1117  /t/1527077/proficient-or-episode-speakers-echos-in-room/0_50#post_24602111

 

Maybe I should just put 3 speakers in front or soundbar and skip surround sound in this room
Yes 3 speakers in front, or nice in walls, will be great.

Decent typical speaker: Camry. High power handling, sensitive speaker: Sports car / race car.

Thinking about a sound bar is like: Escort or a Trabant: 
 

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Discussion Starter #14

Thanks I'll look into those speakers (and put inwall)  or see if integrator carries any of them as we'll be sitting around 14 feet away since such a big space so couches around big fireplace and TV on side wall.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmd1117  /t/1527077/proficient-or-episode-speakers-echos-in-room#post_24600298


Renovating 5,000 square foot home and was quoted bor both Proficiant and Episode Speakers from different installers.  I have 3 surround sound areas 5.1 and 4 other areas for speakers for music.  Also what is your advice of using sound bar vs in wall speakers (for bedroom).  Family Room is very echoy as it's huge with 2 story ceiling, TV is on one side, I was thinking of 3 in wall speakers then having other 2 on far wall which is 40 feet away.  We are putting in 4 wood beams across ceiling vault which hopefully will help with echos.

Proficient is Speakercraft's "off brand" that they created to sell through distribution. Any installer can get them.


Episode speakers are from a company/distributor called SnapAV and anyone installer can sell those as well. Episode is one of the top 2 speakers for dealer margins I have ever seen. Their biggest pitch on them is "look how much more money you can make". On their website, when you log in, it shows comparisons between the Episode product and similar popular brands for installers. Some of the comparison columns are: MSRP, Dealer price, margin.


Episode products aren't bad, but GET A DISCOUNT. There's LOTS of room in there.... easily.
 
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