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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went to my local Best Buy to try out some DVD's to see how they looked on the HLN5065. I used Gladiator and The Game. With Gladiator, the picture was dark and lacked any type of punch. The movie on my 27" Sony looked MUCH better. With The Game, same thing, DULL looking.


The mode was set to Custom with Contrast 100, Brightness 65. I switched Gamma from 4 to 0 and then 5. Still looked awful.


The sales guy tried two prog dvd players (Sammy and Toshiba) using Monster component cables. Tried Component 1 and 2, didn't matter.


Is this just "the way it is" for DVD's on large screen HDTV's?


The High Def feed, however, looked awesome.
 

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I have tried 3 different ways of playing DVD's on Samsung DLP (61") with these results:


Best - HTPC using a DVI connection using ZoomPlayer

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An all digital optimzed path from DVD to the TV.



OK - Non-progressive DVD Player into Component 1

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The Faroudja chip in Samsung is superior in deinterlacing / scaling than the DVD player. However, component connection causes Digital to analog and then back to digital conversion - reducing picture quality.



Worst - Progressive DVD Player into component 1

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DVD player with inferior circuitry is doing deinterlacing / scaling. And component connection also degrades quality
 

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Just to add a note - I find that the DVD playback quality on Samsung DLP using an HTPC approaches the PQ of a Hi Def broadcast. It has the same clarity - at a lower level of detail/resolution.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by u18a12


Is this just "the way it is" for DVD's on large screen HDTV's?


The High Def feed, however, looked awesome.
That's not the way it is for most of people who own the Samsung DLP sets and write about them here. The most common response is that HD is the best, then DVD.


What Arungupta said in his messages is the basic information that a lot of people agree with.


I have never seen either DVD that you used. I do know that Gladiator has some chapters that are used as a torture test for DLP sets.


The tweak threads for the original HLM sets have a lot of discussion about DVD picture quality. I have a non-progressive DVD player and had the original HLM here for a month. I reduced Gamma to 0 and turned off "black enhancement" and connected to component one. I was very happy with the DVDs that I watched.


Maybe it's in the eyes of the beholder. Another possibility is that the set was defective or some previous customer made some SM changes that were unfortunate.


I would try to find another sample to test if possible.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by u18a12
I went to my local Best Buy to try out some DVD's to see how they looked on the HLN5065. I used Gladiator and The Game. With Gladiator, the picture was dark and lacked any type of punch. The movie on my 27" Sony looked MUCH better. With The Game, same thing, DULL looking.


The mode was set to Custom with Contrast 100, Brightness 65. I switched Gamma from 4 to 0 and then 5. Still looked awful.


The sales guy tried two prog dvd players (Sammy and Toshiba) using Monster component cables. Tried Component 1 and 2, didn't matter.


Is this just "the way it is" for DVD's on large screen HDTV's?


The High Def feed, however, looked awesome.
Sounds like the IRE was set to the wrong level and you are crushing the blacks. The DVD player should have an option for black level or its a cheapy.
 

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I absolutly agree with arungupta. When watching Star Wars episode II the clarity was amazing. I was amazed at the picture on this set when watching this dvd and thought it could not be better then I got a HD tuner and PQ went up several notchs again. SD tv is ok but still better then my 32 inch tube due to being shown progressive and the no glare screen.
 

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I have an HLM437W and am using a 480i DVD player through Component 1. The only adjustments I have made were to reduce sharpness through the user menu, make slight color and tint adjusments through the user menu, and disable the black expansion circuitry in the service menu.


NOTE: I found the best results using the default GAMMA setting of 4.


DVDs look from absolutlely AMAZING (Episode II, The Fifth Element, Dinosaur, The Fellowship of the Ring, Monsters Inc.) to ****** (Ladyhawke, The Black Hole).


I have found that, if the DVD was transferred and produced well, then it will look great. On the other hand, if it's an older movie or an inferior transfer, then it can look like ****. Some newer movies don't look good as well, such as Minority Report, which was made to look grainy in the theatre and it looks grainy as hell on DLP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yeah, something wasn't right. Even the sales guy said that was the first time he saw DVD on the DLP and was shocked at how bad it looked. That's why he tried switching cables and dvd players, thinking something might be wrong with them. I'll try to find another floor model, maybe at Tweeter or Great Indoors to try out the DVD's again. I'll take Star Wars: Episode II this time as well.


I'm just puzzled at why the HD loop look great. I would think if something was defective with the unit or someone messed with the service menu, then all viewing types would be affected.
 

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u18a12,


I noticed the same thing on both the HLM5065 and the HLN5065 at Best Buy. Earlier this year when they played their HD demo the picture looked nice and bright. I went there another day and they had a Samsung DVD player connected to one of the component inputs playing Signs and it seemed to be lacking brightness (the contrast/brightness settings were the same as you listed). Even the other day on the HLN5065 at Best Buy, they had X-men playing on a Samsung DVD player and the picture just lacked the contrast/brightness on it when the DVD player is used. I'm puzzled on this one too. Maybe it's the Samsung DVD player??? Despite making gamma corrections on the TV, why would there be that much difference in the contrast/brightness. Best Buy's demo was running through the component input also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I don't think it could be the Samsung DVD player, the sales guy switched over to a Toshiba progressive player and still the quality was bad.


But back to the High Def feed and that was nice and bright and jumpin' off the screen. That's nice, but I'm not paying that much money just to be impressed by the few HDTV channels I can get.
 

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u18a12,


I think I can explain what you saw. Brightness varies a lot in my setup depending on the source. I'm not surpised that the black levels from an HD feed were very different than from a DVD. In fact, I'd be surprised if they were the same. We have to change Brightness every time we change inputs, and often when we change TV stations. Annoying but worth it for the PQ.


Here's our setup:

HLM437W

SIR-T165 OTA receiver, into TV via DVI cable

480i DVD player, into Component inputs of SIR-T165, then via DVI to TV


Here's where we set Brightness:

HD - 60-65

digital SD - 50-60

analog SD - 35

DVD's - 18-28 (AVIA calibrates at 20, but movies do vary)


As you can see, Brightness at 65 makes perfect sense for an HD feed. That's where we watch. But Brightness at 65 for a DVD would be horrible, our picture would be flat, gray and lifeless.


Try turning Brightness down to something like 18-28. The HLN's apparently have different Gamma tables, so HLM settings won't map exactly, but I'll bet it helps.


Like arungupta, bishamon, crashbid and htwaits, our PQ on DVD's is wonderful unless it's a crappy DVD, in which case PQ is wonderfully crappy!


Happy hunting!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
DVD's - 18-28 (AVIA calibrates at 20, but movies do vary)
Thanks DD. I'll give that a try. I'm a little worried though, won't that make the picture darker than it already is? That was half the problem, scenes looked dark. Contrast was way up, I think 95.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by u18a12
Thanks DD. I'll give that a try. I'm a little worried though, won't that make the picture darker than it already is? That was half the problem, scenes looked dark. Contrast was way up, I think 95.
Those figures seem really low to me. I keep brightness at 52 and contrast at 85 for most sources (although, some cable channels do appear dim, while other are quite bright).


I have an HLM437W, revision 109, and am using DVD through Component 1 at 480i, XBox through Component 3 at 480p and 720p, MVS/Supergun through S-Video 3, VCR/cable through RF1, digital cable through Video 1, and Dreamcast hooked to the VGA port. I had to turn the contrast down to 80 for the VGA connection because it looked too bright at 85.


I'm using the default GAMMA setting of 4, but have turned off the black expansion circuit via the service menu. Through the user menu I turned sharpness down to 10 and made minor adjustments to color and tint using Avia.


NOTE: All of my settings were calibrated using a 480i DVD player without the player's black level enhancement enabled. Turning this feature on would have caused me to need to componsate by turning the brightness down much further; Parhaps this is why Doug's brighness numbers for DVD seem so low.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:
A tube will always show better than a Samsung DlP. If you want good black level and grays. The colors are off with the DLP.
That's what I thought, but I've read in these forums where people swear that the picture quality they see on the DLP's is the best thing they've ever seen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I must retract my initial opinion of DVD quality on the HLN5065. I went to another store which had the HL-M-5065 on display and I played Gladiator on it. MUCH BETTER! The colors were vivid, and the picture was nice and bright. I spoke with a sales guy there and told him what I experienced with the HLN5065 at Best Buy and he told me something must have been wrong with the set or it was hooked up wrong. Sure enough, my wife and I jumped back in the car and went to Best Buy where lo and behold the sales guy there told me the cables had been hooked up wrong. I put Gladiator in and the picture was very good. Still not as bright as the HLM model, but alot brighter than my initial viewing. I'm figuring maybe someone tweaked that HLM at the other store and that's why it was brighter...at least I hope that's what it was.
 

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I also seen the hln last night at pc richards, the hd loked the best in the store but dvd lokked absolutely awful.

The picture was shimmering, picture looked soft and seemed flat. I will be watching dvd the most and if that doesn't look good then Im not getting the tv.

Would I be able see a better picture if I used a dvi connection, because its digital and then tv has to do zero crossing back anologue to digital.

hd did look amazing...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yeah, DVI connection would look best, but component should not be that much worse. I would strongly suggest checking the connections of the floor model you saw, because in my case, some cable was hooked in the wrong place on not connected all the way. After the component connections were corrected, the DVD pic looked great.
 

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Is there a previous thread on the DVI set top boxes (Like the 165) and DVD input? Am I missing something or wouldn't the DVD input into the STB/ out into the set with the DVI be best for PQ? Maybe a stupid question.... sorry.


Jeff Wolfe
 

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