AVS Forum banner

241 - 260 of 286 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,231 Posts
Discussion Starter #241
I wish it was as simple as just adjusting one control but all the controls interact with one another so adjusting one will effect another.


Other users settings & how appropriate they are for you is going to depend on various factors including environmental conditions, screen material & unit to unit differences.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
Adam - Thanks for this thread. Very impressive effort. Your settings have worked great for me, especially with the Panasonic 820.

I’️m curious what you use for non-tone mapped HDR sources (Apple TV or Fire TV for example).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,231 Posts
Discussion Starter #244
Adam - Thanks for this thread. Very impressive effort. Your settings have worked great for me, especially with the Panasonic 820.

I’️m curious what you use for non-tone mapped HDR sources (Apple TV or Fire TV for example).

Glad you found it useful, I use an Nvidia Shield but I try to use the UB820 apps as much as possible to take advantage of the optimizer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
HDR 500 nits (High)

Color Mode: Natural

Brightness: 60

Contrast: 58

Color Saturation: 50

Tint: 50

Power Consumption: High

Auto Iris: Normal

Color Temp: 6500K

Skin Tone: 4

Colour Temp: Customized

Offset R: 49 Offset G: 49 Offset B: 50

Gain R: 50 Gain G: 44 Gain B: 43

Sharpness

Standard: 5

Thin Line Enhancement: 5

Thick Line Enhancement: 5

Image Enhancement: Preset 3

Gamma: Customized

Color Tone 1: 0

Color Tone 2: -3

Color Tone 3: -4

Color Tone 4: -4

Color Tone 5: -4

Color Tone 6: -4

Color Tone 7: -6

Color Tone 8: -3

Color Tone 9: 0

RGBCMY

Red

Hue: 51 Saturation: 51 Brightness: 61

Green

Hue: 57 Saturation: 58 Brightness: 50

Blue

Hue: 55 Saturation: 55 Brightness: 50

Cyan

Hue: 58 Saturation: 71 Brightness: 50

Magenta

Hue: 54 Saturation: 71 Brightness: 63

Yellow

Hue: 54 Saturation: 60 Brightness: 50

Super White: Off

Lens iris: 0

Color Space: Auto

Dynamic Range: Auto

Image processing: Fine
Thanks a lot for posting up these configs AdamAttewell. Using the HDR 500 nits (High) settings made HDR look amazing. Before using these settings, HDR was way to dark.

Cheers,
Zoltrix
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
I have a completely dedicated, light controlled room. My walls my have black velvet. I am running the ub420. which setting is recommended for my setup?

Thanks for your efforts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,231 Posts
Discussion Starter #249
please excuse my noob ism, I don't understand the 500 vs 1000 nit or high vs med. With my setup I am looking for a starting point to work with, settings for the 5040ub and also the ub420 would be great. so I can get a starting point to comment my experience from. again please excuse my deficiency with the data provided.
High vs Medium = what power consumption setting is selected.

500 nits vs 1000 nits = the point at which clipping occurs.

From the first post:

HDR settings, clipping at 500 & 1000 nit clipping points. I use a Panasonic UB820 with the HDR optimizer switched on using the HDR TV Type "Basic Luminance LCD & Projector" which tone maps content to 500 nits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
High vs Medium = what power consumption setting is selected.

500 nits vs 1000 nits = the point at which clipping occurs.

From the first post:

so since my ub420 is mapping to 500nits should i start there? I understand clipping but what will switching between 500 and 1000 visually impact?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,231 Posts
Discussion Starter #251
so since my ub420 is mapping to 500nits should i start there? I understand clipping but what will switching between 500 and 1000 visually impact?

If you are using the HDR optimiser to tone map to 500 nits then use the 500 nits settings to start with & see how they look to you. You can give the 1000 nit settings a try with the most noticeable difference being that it will be darker.



I sometimes use the 1000 nit settings if I cant use my UB820 & know the content is mastered to 1000 nits.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Hello all,

I calibrated my Epson 6040UB some time ago now & am looking to re-calibrate whilst also digging deeper into the HDR side of things but I first want to get my SDR calibration nail down first.

Before I go any further here is what I will be using:

CalMAN 2019

X-Rite i1 Pro

X-Rite i1 Display Pro

Lumagen Radiance 2021 (Pattern Generator)

Seeing as the CalMAN forums have been taken down my threads & info has been lost that I used the first time round & am also looking to confirm I am doing all the steps required in the right order.

I have already setup both meters just over a foot from the screen tilted up slightly so they are not measuring their own shadow, side by side and have created a profile before starting. I let the projector run for just over two hours before creating the profile.

From my first run I know the Natural picture mode is the best for SDR so I will be using this picture mode.

Then I started looking at the color temperature setting, default is 6500K but using CalMAN it seems the 6000K setting is closer to 6500K

Onto the gamma & the closest I can get to a gamma of 2.4 is using a gamma setting of -2 but I only get a gamma of around 2.3, not sure if this is an issue or not but other than using the custom gamma option I dont see how I can get this any closer.

I have been using the test patterns on the AVS 709 disk to set brightness & contrast, switching back & forth between both of them until both are set correctly.

Grayscale controls are limited just a basic two point adjustment, I have been calibrating these at 20% & 80% & can get both under 1 dE

From here if what I have done above is correct I start to get a little lost on how to go about things, would the CMS be the next step or should I be looking at gamma?




EDIT: Here are my settings for SDR, I ended up going for a peak luminance of 20fL instead of 16fL as I prefer the brighter image and this also builds a buffer for bulb wear & the inevitable decrease in luminance.

SDR 2.4 20fL

Color Mode: Natural

Brightness: 51

Contrast: 49

Color Saturation: 50

Tint: 50

Power Consumption: ECO

Auto Iris: Normal

Color Temp: 6000K

Skin Tone: 4

Colour Temp: Customized

Offset R: 49 Offset G: 50 Offset B: 50

Gain R: 50 Gain G: 49 Gain B: 46

Sharpness:

Standard: 5

Thin Line Enhancement: 5

Thick Line Enhancement: 5

Image Enhancement: Preset 3

Gamma: Customized

Color Tone 1: 0

Color Tone 2: -8

Color Tone 3: -13

Color Tone 4: -15

Color Tone 5: -17

Color Tone 6: -17

Color Tone 7: -17

Color Tone 8: -20

Color Tone 9: 0

RGBCMY

Red

Hue: 54 Saturation: 38 Brightness: 57

Green

Hue: 68 Saturation: 57 Brightness: 43

Blue

Hue: 55 Saturation: 36 Brightness: 48

Cyan

Hue: 50 Saturation: 57 Brightness: 44

Magenta

Hue: 58 Saturation: 46 Brightness: 45

Yellow

Hue: 50 Saturation: 36 Brightness: 60

Super White: On

Lens iris: -6

Color Space: Auto



SDR 2.2 20fL

Color Mode: Natural

Brightness: 51

Contrast: 49

Color Saturation: 50

Tint: 50

Power Consumption: ECO

Auto Iris: Normal

Color Temp: 6000K

Skin Tone: 4

Colour Temp Customized

Offset R: 49 Offset G: 50 Offset B: 49

Gain R: 49 Gain G: 47 Gain B: 46

Sharpness:

Standard: 5

Thin Line Enhancement: 5

Thick Line Enhancement: 5

Image Enhancement: Preset 3

Gamma: Customized

Color Tone 1: 0

Color Tone 2: -4

Color Tone 3: -6

Color Tone 4: -8

Color Tone 5: -9

Color Tone 6: -9

Color Tone 7: -10

Color Tone 8: -12

Color Tone 9: 0

RGBCMY

Red

Hue: 53 Saturation: 49 Brightness: 47

Green

Hue: 68 Saturation: 54 Brightness: 44

Blue

Hue: 54 Saturation: 52 Brightness: 35

Cyan

Hue: 48 Saturation: 57 Brightness: 42

Magenta:

Hue: 57 Saturation: 50 Brightness: 39

Yellow

Hue: 50 Saturation: 42 Brightness: 53

Super White: On

Lens iris: -6

Color Space: Auto

Dynamic Range: Auto

Image processing: Fine


HDR settings, clipping at 500 & 1000 nit clipping points. I use a Panasonic UB820 with the HDR optimizer switched on using the HDR TV Type "Basic Luminance LCD & Projector" which tone maps content to 500 nits.

HDR 500 nits (Medium)

Color Mode: Natural

Brightness: 60

Contrast: 50

Color Saturation: 50

Tint: 50

Power Consumption: Medium

Auto Iris: Normal

Color Temp: 6500K

Skin Tone: 4

Colour Temp: Customized

Offset R: 50 Offset G: 50 Offset B: 50

Gain R: 50 Gain G: 47 Gain B: 44

Sharpness

Standard: 5

Thin Line Enhancement: 5

Thick Line Enhancement: 5

Image Enhancement: Preset 3

Gamma: Customized

Color Tone 1: 0

Color Tone 2: -3

Color Tone 3: 0

Color Tone 4: -1

Color Tone 5: 1

Color Tone 6: 4

Color Tone 7: 12

Color Tone 8: 0

Color Tone 9: 0

RGBCMY

Red

Hue: 59 Saturation: 41 Brightness: 72

Green

Hue: 60 Saturation: 67 Brightness: 39

Blue

Hue: 57 Saturation: 62 Brightness: 42

Cyan

Hue: 59 Saturation: 75 Brightness: 35

Magenta:

Hue: 60 Saturation: 54 Brightness: 70

Yellow

Hue: 50 Saturation: 61 Brightness: 55

Super White: Off

Lens iris: 0

Color Space: Auto

Dynamic Range: Auto

Image processing: Fine



HDR 1000 nits (Medium)

Color Mode: Natural

Brightness: 54

Contrast: 47

Color Saturation: 50

Tint: 50

Power Consumption: Medium

Auto Iris: Normal

Color Temp: 6500K

Skin Tone: 4

Colour Temp: Customized

Offset R: 49 Offset G: 50 Offset B: 50

Gain R: 50 Gain G: 45 Gain B: 42

Sharpness

Standard: 5

Thin Line Enhancement: 5

Thick Line Enhancement: 5

Image Enhancement: Preset 3

Gamma: Customized

Color Tone 1: 0

Color Tone 2: -5

Color Tone 3: -6

Color Tone 4: -10

Color Tone 5: -9

Color Tone 6: -4

Color Tone 7: -8

Color Tone 8: -29

Color Tone 9: 0

RGBCMY

Red

Hue: 56 Saturation: 45 Brightness: 72

Green

Hue: 61 Saturation: 67 Brightness: 39

Blue

Hue: 58 Saturation: 38 Brightness: 57

Cyan

Hue: 60 Saturation: 58 Brightness: 50

Magenta:

Hue: 70 Saturation: 62 Brightness: 50

Yellow

Hue: 51 Saturation: 56 Brightness: 56

Super White: Off

Lens iris: 0

Color Space: Auto

Dynamic Range: Auto

Image processing: Fine



HDR 500 nits (High)

Color Mode: Natural

Brightness: 60

Contrast: 58

Color Saturation: 50

Tint: 50

Power Consumption: High

Auto Iris: Normal

Color Temp: 6500K

Skin Tone: 4

Colour Temp: Customized

Offset R: 49 Offset G: 49 Offset B: 50

Gain R: 50 Gain G: 44 Gain B: 43

Sharpness

Standard: 5

Thin Line Enhancement: 5

Thick Line Enhancement: 5

Image Enhancement: Preset 3

Gamma: Customized

Color Tone 1: 0

Color Tone 2: -3

Color Tone 3: -4

Color Tone 4: -4

Color Tone 5: -4

Color Tone 6: -4

Color Tone 7: -6

Color Tone 8: -3

Color Tone 9: 0

RGBCMY

Red

Hue: 51 Saturation: 51 Brightness: 61

Green

Hue: 57 Saturation: 58 Brightness: 50

Blue

Hue: 55 Saturation: 55 Brightness: 50

Cyan

Hue: 58 Saturation: 71 Brightness: 50

Magenta

Hue: 54 Saturation: 71 Brightness: 63

Yellow

Hue: 54 Saturation: 60 Brightness: 50

Super White: Off

Lens iris: 0

Color Space: Auto

Dynamic Range: Auto

Image processing: Fine

3D Settings

3D Cinema

Color Mode: 3D Cinema

Brightness: 53

Contrast: 50

Color Saturation: 50

Tint: 50

Power Consumption: High

Auto Iris: Off

Color Temp: 4

Skin Tone: 3

Colour Temp: Customized

Offset R: 48 Offset G: 50 Offset B: 50

Gain R: 51 Gain G: 50 Gain B: 51

Sharpness

Standard: 5

Thin Line Enhancement: 5

Thick Line Enhancement: 5

Image Enhancement: Preset 4

Gamma: Customized

Color Tone 1: 0

Color Tone 2: 2

Color Tone 3: 3

Color Tone 4: 1

Color Tone 5: -2

Color Tone 6: -5

Color Tone 7: -9

Color Tone 8: -31

Color Tone 9: 0

RGBCMY

Red

Hue: 55 Saturation: 29 Brightness: 49

Green

Hue: 27 Saturation: 14 Brightness: 66

Blue

Hue: 50 Saturation: 24 Brightness: 50

Cyan

Hue: 69 Saturation: 14 Brightness: 58

Magenta:

Hue: 71 Saturation: 29 Brightness: 43

Yellow

Hue: 53 Saturation: 38 Brightness: 51

Super White: On

Lens iris: 0

Color Space: Auto

Dynamic Range: Auto

Image processing: Fine


3D Setup (Signal Settings)

3D Display: Auto

3D Format: Side by Side

3D Depth: 0

Diagonal Screen Size: N/A

3D Brightness: Medium

These settings are terrific. Can you share how you set the Brightness and Contrast for the HDR 500 nits (Medium) setting? For SDR, I've set those parameters using the Disney WoW disc (typically Brightness= 49 and Contrast = 51 for my setup). Just wondering how it was done for this HDR setting under Natural. I also own the Panny 820 and have it set up as you describe for this setting. Just want to be able to dial those settings in, if needed. Apologies if I missed it in the thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,231 Posts
Discussion Starter #253
These settings are terrific. Can you share how you set the Brightness and Contrast for the HDR 500 nits (Medium) setting? For SDR, I've set those parameters using the Disney WoW disc (typically Brightness= 49 and Contrast = 51 for my setup). Just wondering how it was done for this HDR setting under Natural. I also own the Panny 820 and have it set up as you describe for this setting. Just want to be able to dial those settings in, if needed. Apologies if I missed it in the thread.

Glad you are enjoying the settings, I set the contrast & brightness using the R Masciola UHD/HDR10 test patterns loaded to a USB flash drive plugged to my UB820. These patterns are mastered in HDR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Thanks very much! And to echo others on this thread: thanks for all the work you put into developing these settings. I've tried numerous settings over the years (HarperVision, Projector Reviews, others on the main 6040/5040 thread, using Dynamic Range Conversion on the 820, hybrids of all of these) and typically tried to take advantage of the expanded color under the Digital Cinema setting. Although the expanded color is noticeable, I found I was never satisfied because of the trade-off in brightness, especially because I need to run my projector in no more than Medium (High is way too loud given my projector's placement in my room). And I really wanted to be happy going that route because WCG can look great under ideal conditions/scenes. But I think reasoning that you and the other experts on this thread makes sense (e.g., expanded color benefits are diminished if the picture is relatively dim) and reflect my experience with this projector; I always felt that I needed to try something "new" because - ultimately - the picture just seemed too dim and I personally found it frustrating. Given how compelling the picture looks with your HDR (500) settings and the measurement explanations in this thread, I finally feel "comfortable" sacrificing those limited expanded color benefits for a much more dynamic, punchy, and still accurate picture. It's been a lot of fun re-watching 4K HDR discs with content I know so well and seeing the improvement. Also, I've used your SDR settings for some time now and find they're the best for that content, as well. Thanks very much again; all that hard work is much appreciated!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,231 Posts
Discussion Starter #255
Thanks very much! And to echo others on this thread: thanks for all the work you put into developing these settings. I've tried numerous settings over the years (HarperVision, Projector Reviews, others on the main 6040/5040 thread, using Dynamic Range Conversion on the 820, hybrids of all of these) and typically tried to take advantage of the expanded color under the Digital Cinema setting. Although the expanded color is noticeable, I found I was never satisfied because of the trade-off in brightness, especially because I need to run my projector in no more than Medium (High is way too loud given my projector's placement in my room). And I really wanted to be happy going that route because WCG can look great under ideal conditions/scenes. But I think reasoning that you and the other experts on this thread makes sense (e.g., expanded color benefits are diminished if the picture is relatively dim) and reflect my experience with this projector; I always felt that I needed to try something "new" because - ultimately - the picture just seemed too dim and I personally found it frustrating. Given how compelling the picture looks with your HDR (500) settings and the measurement explanations in this thread, I finally feel "comfortable" sacrificing those limited expanded color benefits for a much more dynamic, punchy, and still accurate picture. It's been a lot of fun re-watching 4K HDR discs with content I know so well and seeing the improvement. Also, I've used your SDR settings for some time now and find they're the best for that content, as well. Thanks very much again; all that hard work is much appreciated!
Many thanks again for your feedback it makes all the hard work worth it.

Got to say a big thanks to Dominic Chan for guiding me through the process as I would have never achieved the results I have so kudos to him & for putting up with all my questions :D

It's always a compromise with HDR & WCG on projectors no matter the brand or spec with the current limitations in peak brightness of UHP lamps & even laser light sources. It seems over the next decade micro LED will take the place of projectors if it becomes mainstream enough & the cost comes down.

In the mean time I think for the cost of these projectors the image they throw is pretty incredible, whilst I am sure JVC offer better blacks I personally don't think its worth the additional cost but that just my two cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
566 Posts
Adam, again thanks so much for your hard work...I use a Panasonic UB820 with the HDR optimizer switched on and HDR TV Type=Basic Luminance LCD & Projector. I've been using your HDR 500(med) with wonder success for awhile. Lately I've been playing around with the SDR/BT2020 setting in the UB820 (also just started playing with madVR SDR-HDR tone mapping on my laptop) to see what all the talk is about. I must say I'm liking what I see - I've been switching between HDR 500(med) and SDR (2.4) and the HDR 500(med) looks the best to me but is this accurate? Is there another 5040 setup you would use?

jidelite
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,551 Posts
I'd love to buy a 420/820 but my region free Sammy K8500 will have to do. I watch 3D BDs mostly and of course BDs/SDs. I have 11 UHDs and they look good, but it seems this projector is really a BD player. I have 3 UHD settings from here, but it's a hit or miss on those UHDs, picture wise.


Example, just purchased KING KONG UHD and could not get it to look good but the BD is beautiful.


I don't have a PC or anything in my setup in my HT. Just a BD player, AVR, PJ and a high end remote.

I just can't see the extra $5-10 to get UHD...to me, BD thru this PJ gives a beautiful picture! IMHO
 
  • Like
Reactions: AdamAttewell

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,231 Posts
Discussion Starter #258
Adam, again thanks so much for your hard work...I use a Panasonic UB820 with the HDR optimizer switched on and HDR TV Type=Basic Luminance LCD & Projector. I've been using your HDR 500(med) with wonder success for awhile. Lately I've been playing around with the SDR/BT2020 setting in the UB820 (also just started playing with madVR SDR-HDR tone mapping on my laptop) to see what all the talk is about. I must say I'm liking what I see - I've been switching between HDR 500(med) and SDR (2.4) and the HDR 500(med) looks the best to me but is this accurate? Is there another 5040 setup you would use?

jidelite
I think I understand your question but correct me if I am wrong.

You should only use the SDR settings for SDR content & the HDR settings for HDR content.

I don't recommend the use of SDR/BT2020 but that is just my opinion as I prefer to use the HDR optimiser to give that HDR "effect"

Using SDR/BT2020 with my settings will not be accurate.

In terms of accuracy for me its pretty accurate but using another users settings will always not be as accurate compared to you using your own meters & performing the calibration on your projector.

You are always going to get variances due to room conditions & decor, tolerances in manufacturing from projector to projector & screen material.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
566 Posts
I think I understand your question but correct me if I am wrong.

You should only use the SDR settings for SDR content & the HDR settings for HDR content.

I don't recommend the use of SDR/BT2020 but that is just my opinion as I prefer to use the HDR optimiser to give that HDR "effect"

Using SDR/BT2020 with my settings will not be accurate.

In terms of accuracy for me its pretty accurate but using another users settings will always not be as accurate compared to you using your own meters & performing the calibration on your projector.

You are always going to get variances due to room conditions & decor, tolerances in manufacturing from projector to projector & screen material.
The moment I hit submit I knew I was going to fall into the room condition trap :). I guess I should've just come out and asked if you've ever done a calibration with the SDR/BT2020 setting. I have been using UHD movies to play with madVR's HDR->SDR tone mapping pixel shader option on my laptop (I typed it incorrectly in my original post) since I've seen so many folks saying how great it is. I was thinking the SDR/BT2020 setting on the ub820 was as close as I could get to madVR's tone mapping and since I'm using a UHD disk I was using the 500 nit (medium) calibration. I do believe you've answered my question since you haven't used the SDR/BT2020. I don't have the calibration tools that you have and this is why I APPRECIATE ALL YOUR TIME and EFFORT to help a novice like me get the best picture out on my 5040ub.

jidelite
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,231 Posts
Discussion Starter #260 (Edited)
The moment I hit submit I knew I was going to fall into the room condition trap :). I guess I should've just come out and asked if you've ever done a calibration with the SDR/BT2020 setting. I have been using UHD movies to play with madVR's HDR->SDR tone mapping pixel shader option on my laptop (I typed it incorrectly in my original post) since I've seen so many folks saying how great it is. I was thinking the SDR/BT2020 setting on the ub820 was as close as I could get to madVR's tone mapping and since I'm using a UHD disk I was using the 500 nit (medium) calibration. I do believe you've answered my question since you haven't used the SDR/BT2020. I don't have the calibration tools that you have and this is why I APPRECIATE ALL YOUR TIME and EFFORT to help a novice like me get the best picture out on my 5040ub.

jidelite


I have done multiple calibration runs using SDR with the BT.2020 colour space as a container & I just find the projected image far to dim to enjoy the benefits of the expanded colour gamut.

As soon as you engage the light filter to take advantage of the WCG it seriously limits the peak luminance of the projector making the image lifeless & dull IMO & any advantage you gain in achieving a WCG you lose in contrast & brightness.

Then when you try to calibrate these modes you find you are fighting a loosing battle, even if you are only trying it hit the P3 targets you soon realise its not possible without some serious errors due to the lack of luminance because of the filter being engaged.

I think people forget that colour volume plays a big part is these WCG's, if you don't have the luminance you cant hit the targets, no matter what you do with the settings.

So after many calibration runs I concentrated on HDR as I felt that brought more the the image that the WCG. If you look back through this thread I posted my calibrations runs with the different colour modes & what the results were.

Letting the UB820 do the tone mapping down to 500 nits & then calibrating the Epson to suit gives me an image I am more than happy with, I have never used MadVR so I cannot comment on it but at the moment I really don't want to complicate my setup further by adding a HT PC & using it as a source.

I much prefer to just put the disk in the tray, select the correct memory in the Epson & watch the movie.

I also read a lot of people preferring SDR/BT.2020 & if that's what they like then who am I to tell them what they should do with their projectors. What I will say is I would bet the majority of them are not using meters & software to assess the performance but are adjusting by eye.

To me its important to try & adhere to the standards as closely as possible so I can see what the director saw in the edit bay, others seems to not be bothered & just dial in their display to what looks good to them.

At the end of the day its your equipment you can do what you like with it.
 
241 - 260 of 286 Posts
Top