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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Would anyone have a Thumperized Plus UP-1100 in the NY area that would also be willing to haul it (along with scaler or HTPC) to a ISF seminar on Wed (8/15) of next week?


The challenge is that the "PA System" Plus would be blown away by a Runco VX-1C.


We will have to coordinate with Jim Burns who is holding the seminar.


This gentleman has made some, um, disparaging remarks on the quality of our projectors:

"Runco, Dwin, Seleco and Vidikron are the only Home Theater projectors on the market. The other stuff is a P.A. system. You might as well place 70V TOA speakers for your surround system when you put a Infocus projector in your Home theater.")


So in the interest in sharing information with other enthusiasts and a/v professionals it would be fun to do a shootout. After all, Mr Burns is concerned with "all of the misinformation in this industry" and he has kindly accepted the challenge of seeing the differences in a side by side shootout.


Nigel


PS If you're wondering how this got started:
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/006774.html
http://www.dahl.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000021.html
 

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Nigel - thank you for your efforts in putting this shoot out together. As an owner of the now famous Plus "P.A. System" projector I am of course very interested in the results. If I were not located across the country in Washington State I would gladly provide the "Thumperized" Plus for review.


I only wish you could bet on this in Vegas, I could use some easy cash http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Reed.


[This message has been edited by Reed W (edited 08-09-2001).]
 

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Jim,


Please contact me ASAP so that I may attend your NYC seminar and provide a donor "PA System" for a shoot-out with the VX1C next Wednesday. I live only a few minutes from Manhattan and would love to attend with my UP1100. You may contact me at 201-342-1235.


[This message has been edited by ghibliss (edited 08-09-2001).]
 

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To save some time hare is my reply from dahl.com. It is argumentative but what the hell, the attitude is a little different off of the other forum


Nigel and friend


You all realize that you will be leaving a fictitious cyber world and actually have to talk to people face to face. I am impressed that a couple of guys who are evangelical about their www beliefs, and use nicknames, are willing to come out into the light of day. I congratulate you. I am impressed.


The seminar will be at a hotel on 101 James Doolittle Blvd (I just talked with Jim Doolittle the ISF Set up guy not the WW hero the street is named after, although he is a relative, he laughed when I told him about this) at the Long Island Marriott Uniondale NY. I looked on the ISF/Sencore web sites and neither one has the address, good marketing eh? You can call Joel Silver at 561-997-9073 for your reservation.


Just so you know we do this demo every seminar, I have said this before and you seem not to realize this or you just are unimpressed by the implications. There is a huge difference between these two units, that is why we do this demo every seminar. The reason I keep mentioning this because it is like saying we sacrifice a goat and you are volunteering to put on a goat suit. Why would you do that? The results of this are clear-cut. You will have a jury of 40 people in the install business that will have no problem in seeing the differences between the two pictures.


The software we will use are the opening credits of “Star Trek Insurrection†I very highly recommend you preview this on your PA system before you submit to this.

We run through the same clip three times the goat is shown with and without processing, at the end the goat is shown with the same processor as the Runco VX1c and there is still a huge difference! That’s because the Runco is heavily modified from the original Pluss/NEC. I help Runco design this stuff, I know what the differences are.


I like your moxy, just think carefully about this before you leap.


Now I know your home theaters did cost a lot of money and I am sure it is the best picture on the block, just be realistic it is not the best picture in the world. Neither is the VX1c that is why we have a 992 Ultra with a 4404 Ultra driving it at the seminars also, that is a dam fine picture, and it blows the DLP away!




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Jim Burns
www.dtvconsultants.com
 

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WOW! This is going to be GREAT!


I can't wait to find out the results of this one. Actually,it sounds like Mr. Burns is a little overconfident making a Thumperized Plus victory all the more exciting.


Ghbliss,


Has your 1100 been to Thumper? If it has, and with the gamma calibrations that you perform, I think I know where I will place my chips.



Woo Hoo! Go Nick-Name people!!


Sorry, but my imagination is such that I use my real name.


Jeff
 

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Dang this would be fun.


I've seen the Runco, used to own a Thumpered UP1100, and now have the NEC LT150.


If there's a 'world of difference' or whatever the analogy was, I haven't seen it.


And it took me eight or so projectors before I found one I was happy with.


Go the PA team!

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Steve


------------------
Steve's Stuff
 

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If the Thumperized UP-1100(T) is similar to the LT150 then this will be an interesting shootout! Of course, considering the price differential the UP-1100 gets a dedicated HTPC while the Runco depends of its own "superior" processing.


Here's hoping the UP-1100 "Thumps" the Runco.


Cheers,


Grant

 

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If you plan on getting either the LT150 or a Thumpered Plus make sure you get them to try it with a HTPC. The internal scalers of these units leave a lot to be desired and both need the HTPC treatment to give the kind of performance we talk about in this forum. Also remember the LT150 mantra: "White segment off".


I'll be looking forward to reading about a budget projector kicking the Runco out of it's high position.


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/frode
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Actually I don't think that ghibliss is going to bringing a Thumperized Plus but one with updated gamma tables. One with both would be better. The halo is much much reduced on the my unit with Thumper's mods...even excluding the color wheel modifications. The additional light shield helps significantly in the halo reduction. I do hope he can bring a HTPC.


In any case, we shall see. Actually, if my unit wasn't quite as dusty at the moment (I have a dust blotch on the right corner I need to take care of) I'd FedEx him mine.


I think that Jim underestimates not the projector but the enthusiasts in this forum. I've never met ghibliss in person but given his postings in the past, I think he'll be a fine representative of the quality of folks we have in this forum.


As for you Jim, first, I don't think that the Plus is the best image out there. Not even my Thumperized Plus (do you even know what that is?). It IS only a single chip DLP. I'm not certain I'd even claim that it is the best budget DLP on the market. I do believe from personal observation that it does give the Runco VX-1C a run for the money (given the right source)...at 1/4 the cost.


The point is that we DIDN'T spend a lot of money on it...not that we had. For me, the investment has been no more than $5K for projector, mods, screen and HTPC.


Neither of us strike me as particularly evangelical. The Plus is a competent projector that is very nice once modified. What annoys the heck out of me is your condescending attitude and frankly I doubt I'd have pursued it otherwise. There were certainly more tactful methods of conveying your opinions.


As far as the nicknames go Jim, it's more because we aren't selling something than because we're living in a "fictitious cyber world".


Geez, can you TRY to be a worse ambassador for either the ISF or Runco?


Nigel


(Heh, I'd have used NHT as a handle but that might have implied some connection with the company. But like RGB, those really are my initials...nigel_ht was just lucky happenstance)
 

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Why not try a thumperized LT150!!


I just sent a few messages back and fort concerning the LT150 (since everyone owns one right!). My friend just bought an LT150 and I have just started looking at it compared to the LT100(T) that I own. First glance is that they have similar contrast and black levels (with LT150 set to no whites). The color reproduction is similar. The main disadvantage is that the stock LT150 has significantly higher halo then a LT100(T).


Anyway, apparently Thumper has been working a little magic on the LT150. From my last e-mail he said that the prethumperized LT150 measured contrast ratio of 600:1 (whites off) and 1000:1 (whites on). After mods he was measuring a contrast of ~1123:1! He says that the black level is so dark that he has a hard time telling where the screen border is located. He was going to jury the unit with a movie last night. Maybe Thumper can jump in and give any other results he might have found.


I will be giving the LT150 a good look this weekend and hope to have some comparison shots (with my LT100(T) that I can put out). Since the units are quite similar I thought I would lock the exposure to the same settings for a particular scene and take a picture of the LT150 vs LT100. That way we can see any brightness and black level differences If they exist. If this does not work I will revert back to setting the exposure for each image, etc.




------------------

Gary


STOP DVI/HDCP!

DVI/HDCP! ~= HD-DIVX!!!

DO NOT SUPPORT JVC or anyone else who supports this!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Steve, yes I have emailed Thumper just to let him know that I've been causing trouble for him. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


That said, I doubt Thumper has an overwhelming interest in engaging in this sort of, well to be honest, somewhat childish pissing contest(*). As I said earlier, I blame George Lucas.


That's my excuse and I'm sticking with it. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Nigel


(*) The sort generated from an intense desire to wipe the smug expression off someone prodding you with a stick.


I think a good analogy is someone from Porsche going to a board for the integra, impreza wrx or 2g eclipse and commenting their 10-15 second cars are not really sports cars and they might as well be driving a minivan.


As an aside, a modified eclipse can turn in 9 sec times. Comparable to modified 911 bi-turbo's 11 sec times.


While these cars do lack a lot of refinement (straight line accel isn't the end all of a car) but with the aftermarket mods they will be competitive enough with any stock Porsche (and many modified Porsches) that the winner is due to skill rather than car.


At less than half the price in many cases.
 

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I have been in touch with both Jim Burns and Joel Silver of ISF regarding participating in the planned shootout between the Plus UP1100 and the Runco VX1C. I was advised by Mr. Silver that the comparison that they have been performing at the seminars has not been to espouse who makes a better or more accurate projector. What they are trying to instill upon the participants of the seminar is that the use of a better quality signal processor than the internal one supplied in the projector is essential for good home theater performance! The internal scaler as we know has considerable artifacts and poor 3:2 pull down capability.


It is there opinion that most of the LCD, single chip DLP projectors on the market are "Pie Chart" projectors and do a good job for what they are designed for. They do lack a few refinements which home theater projectors require to provide proper video. I am in complete agreement with them on these points. I was told that given this premise that their is really no need to perform a shoot-out as it will not serve any real purpose to the participants. UP1100 projectors are not available any longer and Runco is introducing newer projectors shortly.


Although I am confident that a properly calibrated UP1100 with a revised gamma look-up table would blow the VX1C away it was decided that a shoot-out would not be held at this time.


[This message has been edited by ghibliss (edited 08-11-2001).]
 

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To call onself a Digital TV Consultant, you'd think there would be a better background on the website.


I looked for a few seconds, and think I'm now blind.


Kelly
 
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