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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k  /t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/5120_40#post_23956489


will do. I haven't seen the 600 yet, but there's a good chance I am still going to use the Sharp 30K vs. the 1000 for 3D. I am just too sensitive to the flicker even though the 3D is quite good with very minimal x-talk. Color and contrast in 3D also look great. it's always comes down to that flicker that most folks don't see.


I can go 3+ hours watching 3D on the Sharp and my eyes are just as comfortable as if I was watching 2D. this is one of my benchmarks, how do my eyes / brain feel after extended viewing. There is zero RBE in 3D on the Sharp, thankfully it has a fast color wheel and never see it.


I could also watch the 5030 in 3D for hours, they did an excellent job controlling flicker, very close to the DLP experience.

Just 3D PQ, how do the Sharp compare to the 1000ES. The upscaled to 4K 3D doesn't kill the Sharp, like the 1000ES does in 2D to other projectors?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120  /t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/5130#post_23956720


Just 3D PQ, how do the Sharp compare to the 1000ES. The upscaled to 4K 3D doesn't kill the Sharp, like the 1000ES does in 2D to other projectors?

For general comparison, the 3D on the 1000 is definitely better than the HW50, it's more naturally sharp. I wonder if part of this has to do with the vertical resolution limitation that David @ HDTV discussed in his review. He stated that it also happens to the VW500/600 but not the 1000. It will be interesting to see if the VW600 is as sharp in 3D as the VW1000.


So overall 3D looks great on the VW1000 but the limitation for me is the flicker. This is where the Sharp 30K excels big time. It has a rock solid image in 3D. It's also very sharp appearing in 3D, natural with no processing needed to make it look great.


Before it was the RS55 / 30K for my 2D / 3D combo, and now the VW1000 and Sharp 30K. I still like to fire up the Planar 8130 once in a while, this is a great 2D projector that I picked up for dirt cheap ($950) with only 80 hours on it. The OEM lamps are so cheap they are practically free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910  /t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/5130#post_23956843


Hello Zombie,


Is there a big difference in the epson 5010 and the 5030 in 2d?


Best regards

it's been a while since I've seen the 5010 but I did get a chance to compare 2 5030's to the 6020 from last year. Cine4home mentions some tweaks in the optical path to increase the PQ. I agree with him, they definitely changed something this year. It's not a major difference but noticeably on my 142" screen.


I wouldn't upgrade a 5010 or 5020 for a 5030 if 2D was the only interest. The real change is the FI in 3D looks great and overall 3D performance is top of the game for non-DLP. Not perfect, but good enough for my critical eyes. The main factor is how well behaved it is with flicker, excellent for a non-DLP. I also like the factory RF glasses, my 2nd favorite vs. Sharp G20's.
 

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I guess ill be on the lookout for a Sharp for under $1800. I was going to get a cheap DLP with RF glasses but I want to have lens shift. I want to use RF glasses for multiple projectors so I won't have to have dlp link and rf glasses everywhere. I still can't jump on the 1000ES until next year. I just have to see what comes out next year before I go with my 4K unit. Looks like you are getting good 4K content to see how the 1000ES actually looks
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120  /t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/5130#post_23956970


I guess ill be on the lookout for a Sharp for under $1800. I was going to get a cheap DLP with RF glasses but I want to have lens shift. I want to use RF glasses for multiple projectors so I won't have to have dlp link and rf glasses everywhere. I still can't jump on the 1000ES until next year. I just have to see what comes out next year before I go with my 4K unit. Looks like you are getting good 4K content to see how the 1000ES actually looks

I saw this reference in another thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1381679/official-benq-w7000-owners-thread/3690#post_23955422


It's not with a 4 year warranty....
 

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I wish the Benq projectors used RF 3D. We might see some from them by next fall, but I want one now. I just don't want to pay over $2000 for a 3D projector that will get used about 8-12hrs a month. I might just pick up a Optoma for about $750.
 

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Yes, we should have bought all the Sharps, but if you bought them all yourself, then we'd think you were bias'd even though you appear to not be :0

You are the last unbiased source we have for reviews, so be careful :p


I am not sure about the 3D brightness thing, but I'm assuming glasses and different MFR techniques can make 10-25% difference, and remember our eyes cannot really see 10% to 20% difference in brightness much at certain points (at some points they can). Since the light reception of how we perceive light is not linear just like contrast, sometimes our eyes can suddenly see a noticeable difference at 25% whereas at 15%-20% there was no noticeable difference. That's why it's hard to tell just by the eye.


So by measurements there was only a 25% to 30% difference between the 3010 and Sharp's 3D brightness, so I'm guessing the glasses are the rest of the difference, what do you think?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark  /t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/5040#post_23907152


Off topic:


HDD's typically don't use a lot of power, but they run hot if crowded into a case with poor cooling. That's a sure-fire way to fry them. A case that allows you to route cables behind the motherboard instead of in front can help keep the interior cool and tidy. And as Dreamliner says, pick a power supply that's well reviewed. 5 drives is nothing for a decent power supply and well cooled case. My SuperMicro server has 24 drives, with dual (but redundant) power supplies. It screams like a Banshee but drive temps never top 30 degrees C, and many are in the low 20's or teens. I'm building a small room for the server that will double up as a mini recording booth when I need it. Even in the basement, the cooling fans spin so fast that they create a huge amount of noise. However, I've yet to experience a hard drive failure, unlike when I was using a regular full tower case as my UnRaid server. Even though it ran 4 120mm fans, I had 4 or 5 HDD failures in a couple of years.

HD failures are rarer these days as long as you buy a well-reviewed drive, some Seagate models are still lemons, but it goes on a case-by-case basis. 4-5 HD failures is a lot for only 24 drives, wow. I've only had about 10-15 drive failures out my last batch of 200 over a 5-year period. I only bought drives with few 1-2 star ratings, so I stayed away from most Seagates except for the Enterprise Seagate SAS Cheetahs which almost never fail. About 30 of the drives were Samsungs which were bought out by Seagate (too bad), and not one Samsung has ever failed. I had some WD RE3 drive fail, and I've had some weird hiccups on a RAID controller of a Toshiba SAS drive (but 0 failures on Toshiba too out of 25 drives). About 5-10 failures on 100+ WD drives, and I did have a few non-Enterprise Seagates in the mix (not by choice), in which they had a hell-fire ridiculous failure rate of about 20% to 30%. These drives were mostly ran out of a data center though, so the constant temp keeps failures lower.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy  /t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/5130#post_23958864


Yes, we should have bought all the Sharps, but if you bought them all yourself, then we'd think you were bias'd even though you appear to not be :0

You are the last unbiased source we have for reviews, so be careful :p


I am not sure about the 3D brightness thing, but I'm assuming glasses and different MFR techniques can make 10-25% difference, and remember our eyes cannot really see 10% to 20% difference in brightness much at certain points (at some points they can). Since the light reception of how we perceive light is not linear just like contrast, sometimes our eyes can suddenly see a noticeable difference at 25% whereas at 15%-20% there was no noticeable difference. That's why it's hard to tell just by the eye.


So by measurements there was only a 25% to 30% difference between the 3010 and Sharp's 3D brightness, so I'm guessing the glasses are the rest of the difference, what do you think?

I have to look at it closer and measure it, I was just surprised to see how similar it looked in an A/B stack using the same source. The shutter timing is the obvious suspect. A good example was the Mitsubishi HC5. The 3D lumen output was reasonably bright before the glasses but it drops quite a bit when the shutters are activated. More so than I recall seeing with other projectors.


Art of Flight 3D is about as bright of a 3D disk as you can get yet it was still too dim with the HC5 dead center on the 2.8.






I was watching several hours of 3D on the Sharp the other night and it looked great. The big difference between the 30K and the W7000 is no RBE in 3D and the perceived contrast through the glasses. I know much it is due to the DLP Link vs. RF + the Sharp has higher native contrast which helps a bit. During dark scenes in 3D movies like Pacific Rim, it looks very good, no complaints.


The projector isn't perfect, it needs helps with the color gamut which I can tweak in a bit with the lumagen, but for 3D it's good enough. Most people are going to think it looks ok in 3D. Greyscale is easy to calibrate, it's surprising how well it tracks from 10-100. It's also very sharp with no need for added processing.




The Rock still wants to know if you can smell what he is cooking..





There is something about this projector I really like. If it wasn't available, the 5030 would be my next choice for 3D. Great color in 3D after calibration, comfortable RF glasses and very little, if any perceivable flicker which is great for my eyes/brain. Adding in the subtle FI that I prefer over Sony's implementation in the HW50, there isn't much to complain about for it's 3D performance.


One of our members sent over the Epson LPE filter so it will be interesting to see how bright 3D looks once the greyscale is tamed a bit by that filter.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k  /t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/5070#post_23936013


About 72 hours....



I need a few days to get it dialed in and should have a chance to compare it to the RS55 soon. First impressions on perceived contrast is that it's quite good, especially intra-scene contrast. There is a fade to black scene in Oblivion that looks excellent on the Sony, zero bright corners that I can usually see on the JVC's including an X35 I have here. The HP makes it stand out, but it's impressive to see how uniform the panel is.



JC - I watched some scenes from Pacific Rim on the 5030, it was definitely better than the 'mini-imax' presentation at my local theater. Contrast and colors were a bit blah and I wanted to scream after being forced to use circular polarizing glasses, they were awful and could invoke crosstalk with just a bit of head movement.


The 5030 could end up with the non-DLP 3D crown this year, we have to see how the HW55 and new JVC's compare. So far though it gets a high score imo.

Zombie,


Where's the RS55 comparison? You are the only one i trust to do it properly, without bias. i bought an RS55 this year because of you. I now want to know how much of an upgrade the VW1000 truly is. Thanks in advance. I really appreciate all you have done on these shootouts.


Best,

John
 

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I'm more interest in his comparison of the 1000ES to the 500/600ES. If the lens is that much better to provide a significant difference.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy  /t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/5130#post_23960194


Zombie,


Where's the RS55 comparison? You are the only one i trust to do it properly, without bias. i bought an RS55 this year because of you. I now want to know how much of an upgrade the VW1000 truly is. Thanks in advance. I really appreciate all you have done on these shootouts.


Best,

John

John, Hi I haven't had a chance to compare the 2 yet. I'm trying to get my 4K HTPC sorted out so I can have a number of different options to look at when comparing 1080P 2D upscaling.


When you look at raw NEF files from my Nikon D90 is when you can see where all the $$ goes for the panels and high quality lens. It really looks amazing and very life-like compared to the 1080P projectors, especially sitting relatively close to my 142". Some of the 4K demos I've seen look remarkable as well, several steps above the best 1080P content out there.


I'll have more time with the upcoming thanksgiving break to give some input between the 55 and the 1000.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k  /t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/5130#post_23960735



John, Hi I haven't had a chance to compare the 2 yet. I'm trying to get my 4K HTPC sorted out so I can have a number of different options to look at when comparing 1080P 2D upscaling.


When you look at raw NEF files from my Nikon D90 is when you can see where all the $$ goes for the panels and high quality lens. It really looks amazing and very life-like compared to the 1080P projectors, especially sitting relatively close to my 142". Some of the 4K demos I've seen look remarkable as well, several steps above the best 1080P content out there.


I'll have more time with the upcoming thanksgiving break to give some input between the 55 and the 1000.

Zombie,


Thanks! Having seen 4K on an ultra-high-end 4K 70 inch monitor, I know what 4K looks like and there is no doubt about it - Its a game-changer. However there is really very little content for it. Until then, I really want to know how the RS55 and the VW1000 compare upscaling 1080P. I will be getting a 4K projector, but it will probably be another 18 months before I am willing to invest in it. I want to make sure the final specs for 4K are built into the hardware.


Thanks again for your thoughts and happy holidays to you and yours!


John
 

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Just FYI, it's possible for anyone to see 4k without 4k, just sit farther back, it will be equivalent to what our eyes can resolve if you look at the screen from enough distance (hence it will be the same as viewing 4k). Of course you will have to view a smaller image at 2k to get the same effect as 4k, so it's not exactly the same, but it would be from a sense of how much detail your eyes can see at a different distance. Of course that does not take into account better source masters and color variance, but we don't any/many of those yet...


An interesting test is to take a few steps back from the screen slowly until you stop noticing an improvement in sharpness or quality, it'll be quite a few steps backwards from where most of us sit, so 4k will definitely help a bit.
 

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Page 11 of the December Electronic House digital Magazine shows a JVC Ad for e-Shift3 !

Anyone know what they are bringing to the table with this next version ?

Scott................
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k  /t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/5130#post_23957507


There is 1 legit ebay seller left with great feedback that has a few left @ $2699.



The woot price was a steal @ 1799, I should have bought a few and flipped them on ebay..
 

So would you consider $2699 to still be a fair price for a Z30K?  I'm leaning towards that model over a 50ES. solely because of the powered zoom.  Also, that eBay seller happens to be just up the road from me.  I might see if he does local pickup, might be able to buy it direct and knock some off that price. 
 

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Sounds like the best price still going on from a reputable dealer, as there aren't many left. Is it fair, well at this stage of the game I suppose.

There isn't anything to match the Sharp yet in 3D that we know of.


Maybe one day
 
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