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Wow! The BenQ HT1075, instead of the JVC. So, the lower gain ALR screens become more important than the projector. Have you checked out the F2 and/or F3 sample of the Microlite screens yet? One of these, combined with a JVC, might be the ticket!


Dave
I love my current setup, but a lower gain ALR screen would have better blacks with lights on. I think the BenQ HT1075 or Optoma HD131Xe paired with the DarkStar 1.4 would be excellent.

I haven't really looked hard at the Microlite screen samples yet, but it didn't take that much of an assessment to tell that they aren't as good as DNP Supernova or EPV DarkStar. Maybe MississippiMans new screen will be really good. Looking forward to checking that out.

Oh yeah, and lower input lag would welcome as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #11,642
Can these be used with the rF estar glasses? These are really inexpensive but I need to know if I can use both at the same time.
the RF estar's are similar to the older Monster 3D, they use a proprietary signal that isn't compatible with the majority of RF glasses today. A 3 pin Y cable that I made a few years ago would work, I've tried this with every possible combination of transmitters and it works with no problem.



The estars are more comfortable vs. the Xpand/JVC which I would reserve use for kids or folks with smaller faces.


Those 'Mitsubishi' glasses are a bargain though, here is a shot of them vs. the Xpand generic version, they are identical in every way but about 1/2 the cost.





Photo of the Xpand glasses + RF transmitter. Sharp glasses label is incorrect, those are the G20's - best. glasses. ever.

RF performance between JVC transmitter and this model are identical.

 

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I love my current setup, but a lower gain ALR screen would have better blacks with lights on. I think the BenQ HT1075 or Optoma HD131Xe paired with the DarkStar 1.4 would be excellent.

I haven't really looked hard at the Microlite screen samples yet, but it didn't take that much of an assessment to tell that they aren't as good as DNP Supernova or EPV DarkStar. Maybe MississippiMans new screen will be really good. Looking forward to checking that out.

Oh yeah, and lower input lag would welcome as well.

So, you do have samples of the Microlite screens? I find that the angles are much better with the Microlite screens than the Darkstar 1.4.


Dave
 

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I bought 8 pairs of the Xpand Mits glasses because they were so cheap. They work fine, however like others have stated they are a bit tight on your head in the ear area, and the lens size is a skosh small. 3D movies are a bit dim, but that is probably the limitations of the X500 light output and not the glasses I'm guessing. All in all one heck of a deal for casual 3D viewing.
 

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I bought 8 pairs of the Xpand Mits glasses because they were so cheap. They work fine, however like others have stated they are a bit tight on your head in the ear area, and the lens size is a skosh small. 3D movies are a bit dim, but that is probably the limitations of the X500 light output and not the glasses I'm guessing. All in all one heck of a deal for casual 3D viewing.
Very easy to make them fit better. Use a hair dryer until the plastic gets a little soft and adjust them to fit.
 

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So, you do have samples of the Microlite screens? I find that the angles are much better with the Microlite screens than the Darkstar 1.4.


Dave
Yep, I have samples of the F2.0 & F3.0. But I haven't had time to really look at them good yet. I'll have to check them out again, but I know the sparkling is too much for me to live with. That's why I ended up with the DNP 2.3. Great viewing angles, really bright, better contrast in ambient light (but could be better), some sparkling but not nearly as noticeable compared to the other high gain ALR screens. It exhibited all the qualities I needed to pair with my JVC projector.

BTW, my JVC X700 is currently at 3100 mostly high lamp hours, and is still nice and bright on my DNP 2.3, just so you have an idea of how bright this screen is. I feel like it would be fine out to 5000 hours at this point, but I do have a new lamp on hand just in case. But I'm thinking about selling my JVC projector with the new lamp, so we'll see.

But if I had a projector that was twice as bright, it would not have been a good choice, IMO. That's why I want a bright DLP paired with a lower gain, darker material ALR screen. The black levels wouldn't be as good as my JVC, but I just want something cheap that can hold me over until native 4K LED/laser models are available and affordable.
 

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So, you do have samples of the Microlite screens? I find that the angles are much better with the Microlite screens than the Darkstar 1.4.


Dave
Yep, I have samples of the F2.0 & F3.0. But I haven't had time to really look at them good yet. I'll have to check them out again, but I know the sparkling is too much for me to live with. That's why I ended up with the DNP 2.3. Great viewing angles, really bright, better contrast in ambient light (but could be better), some sparkling but not nearly as noticeable compared to the other high gain ALR screens. It exhibited all the qualities I needed to pair with my JVC projector.

BTW, my JVC X700 is currently at 3100 mostly high lamp hours, and is still nice and bright on my DNP 2.3, just so you have an idea of how bright this screen is. I feel like it would be fine out to 5000 hours at this point, but I do have a new lamp on hand just in case. But I'm thinking about selling my JVC projector with the new lamp, so we'll see.

But if I had a projector that was twice as bright, it would not have been a good choice, IMO. That's why I want a bright DLP paired with a lower gain, darker material ALR screen. The black levels wouldn't be as good as my JVC, but I just want something cheap that can hold me over until native 4K LED/laser models are available and affordable.
Wow! The BenQ HT1075, instead of the JVC. So, the lower gain ALR screens become more important than the projector. Have you checked out the F2 and/or F3 sample of the Microlite screens yet? One of these, combined with a JVC, might be the ticket!


Dave
I love my current setup, but a lower gain ALR screen would have better blacks with lights on. I think the BenQ HT1075 or Optoma HD131Xe paired with the DarkStar 1.4 would be excellent.

I haven't really looked hard at the Microlite screen samples yet, but it didn't take that much of an assessment to tell that they aren't as good as DNP Supernova or EPV DarkStar. Maybe MississippiMans new screen will be really good. Looking forward to checking that out.

Oh yeah, and lower input lag would welcome as well.
Hmmmm mike garret thought there was very little sparkle on the microlite. Almost none.
Someone else who compared it to a Stewart st130 thought it was perhaps better than that as well.
Another compared it to DNP and found it brighter and better blacks.

You should have a lookst the microlite thread, some interesting observations there. Apparently if the PJ is further back in the throw range it really helps reduce eliminate sparkles.

I have yet to receive my F3 so this is not first hand information.

Cheers
 

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Yep, I have samples of the F2.0 & F3.0. But I haven't had time to really look at them good yet. I'll have to check them out again, but I know the sparkling is too much for me to live with. That's why I ended up with the DNP 2.3. Great viewing angles, really bright, better contrast in ambient light (but could be better), some sparkling but not nearly as noticeable compared to the other high gain ALR screens. It exhibited all the qualities I needed to pair with my JVC projector.

Yeah, that's kind of strange on the F2.0 and F3.0. It's inconsistent with what folks are finding - especially the F3.0. They're finding no artifacts with the F3.0 and just a little sheen with the F2.0. Are you sure you're not thinking about another screen brand?


Dave
 

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Hmmmm mike garret thought there was very little sparkle on the microlite. Almost none.
Someone else who compared it to a Stewart st130 thought it was perhaps better than that as well.
Another compared it to DNP and found it brighter and better blacks.

You should have a lookst the microlite thread, some interesting observations there. Apparently if the PJ is further back in the throw range it really helps reduce eliminate sparkles.

I have yet to receive my F3 so this is not first hand information.

Cheers
I just taped up the MicroLite 2.0 & 3.0, EPV DarkStar .9 & 1.4, and DNP .8 on top of my DNP 2.3 last night. I took a couple pictures (lights on/off), but my camera isn't good enough to show sparkle, only brightness. I took the pictures in manual mode and adjusted ISO to mimic what my eyes saw best as possible. I'll upload the photos when I get a chance here in a bit.

From a normal seating distance you can't really see sparkling/sheen on any of them unless it's really bright content, and looking from certain angles are worse than others. Though I would imagine if the projector was the proper throw distance it would be less noticeable as well. I don't have enough room to accommodate a 1.8:1 recommended throw distance and the only time I notice sparkling/sheen from my seating, is in bright material and in the hotspot right in the center of the screen.

The closer you get to any of the screen samples with positive gain, the more pronounced the sparkling/sheen becomes.

Note: the EPV DarkStar .9 & DNP .8 do not really sparkle/sheen at all at any viewing distance since they are negative gain. But these are much dimmer as well and would require a much brighter projector to really light them up, depending on screen size. Maybe a brighter projector would bring out a little sparkle/sheen in them, but I can't say for sure.

All-in-all (from what I could tell from a quick look), the MicroLite 2.0 looks pretty good, but the 3.0 is the worst of them all for sparkling/sheen. The ML 3.0 is also the worst with the lights on.
The DNP Supernova .8 material is just too dim for my JVC projector, but would otherwise be an excellent choice for a brighter projector such as BenQ HT1075 or Optoma HD131Xe.
The EPV DarkStar .9 is also too dim for my JVC projector, but would otherwise be an excellent choice for a brighter projector such as BenQ HT1075 or Optoma HD131Xe.
The EPV DarkStar 1.4 would be excellent with my JVC projector, but I would have to change my lamp more often than I would with my DNP 2.3 or the MicroLite 2.0.
So with a JVC projector, I would prefer DarkStar 1.4, MicroLite 2.0, or DNP 2.3.

It's really room and projector dependent though. At this point, I would get the DarkStar 1.4 if I got another screen.
 

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Yeah, that's kind of strange on the F2.0 and F3.0. It's inconsistent with what folks are finding - especially the F3.0. They're finding no artifacts with the F3.0 and just a little sheen with the F2.0. Are you sure you're not thinking about another screen brand?


Dave
Please read my response to Wondercarrot, I forgot to Multi-Quote. But the F3.0 was the worse for sparkling/sheen out of the ones I tested last night. It's also the worse with lights on as it doesn't preserve contrast and black levels nearly as well. It is really bright though and would probably be fine paired with a dimmer projector. :)
 

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All-in-all (from what I could tell from a quick look), the MicroLite 2.0 looks pretty good, but the 3.0 is the worst of them all for sparkling/sheen. The ML 3.0 is also the worst with the lights on.
The DNP Supernova .8 material is just too dim for my JVC projector, but would otherwise be an excellent choice for a brighter projector such as BenQ HT1075 or Optoma HD131Xe.
The EPV DarkStar .9 is also too dim for my JVC projector, but would otherwise be an excellent choice for a brighter projector such as BenQ HT1075 or Optoma HD131Xe.
The EPV DarkStar 1.4 would be excellent with my JVC projector, but I would have to change my lamp more often than I would with my DNP 2.3 or the MicroLite 2.0.
So with a JVC projector, I would prefer DarkStar 1.4, MicroLite 2.0, or DNP 2.3.

It's really room and projector dependent though. At this point, I would get the DarkStar 1.4 if I got another screen.
Really strange about your Microlite samples and not what's been reported. Also, not what I'm seeing with my samples. There was one Forum member who mentioned some issues with his samples, but we found out that he had the samples oriented the wrong way - we could tell when he posted the pictures. He had the samples in the portrait (incorrect) position, instead of the landscape (correct) position. He had missed the little arrows on the sample. After he oriented the samples correctly, he had a different opinion (more positive) of them.

I do agree about the DarkStar 1.4. Love that screen. I like the angles of the DNP and Microlite better though. The problem with Elite Screens is that they have horrible Sales support. I especially had issues getting responses from Jeff Klida of Elite Screens. I figure that if there's that much trouble on the "sales" side of things, I can just imagine how much trouble there would be on the "support" side of things. In the forums, there are many reports of folks being dissatisfied with the lack of response from Elite Screen's support folks. I wanted to get the DarkStar 1.4 in a motorized, which they've claimed (for a while) that it's coming.

Anyway, that's why I went from being really gung ho on the DarkStar and on to looking for something else. The Microlite seems like it might be a candidate for me.

Dave
 

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Really strange about your Microlite samples and not what's been reported. Also, not what I'm seeing with my samples. There was one Forum member who mentioned some issues with his samples, but we found out that he had the samples oriented the wrong way - we could tell when he posted the pictures. He had the samples in the portrait (incorrect) position, instead of the landscape (correct) position. He had missed the little arrows on the sample. After he oriented the samples correctly, he had a different opinion (more positive) of them.

I do agree about the DarkStar 1.4. Love that screen. I like the angles of the DNP and Microlite better though. The problem with Elite Screens is that they have horrible Sales support. I especially had issues getting responses from Jeff Klida of Elite Screens. I figure that if there's that much trouble on the "sales" side of things, I can just imagine how much trouble there would be on the "support" side of things. In the forums, there are many reports of folks being dissatisfied with the lack of response from Elite Screen's support folks. I wanted to get the DarkStar 1.4 in a motorized, which they've claimed (for a while) that it's coming.

Anyway, that's why I went from being really gung ho on the DarkStar and on to looking for something else. The Microlite seems like it might be a candidate for me.

Dave
I have been testing the ML samples oriented landscape. I didn't see any little arrows, but I'll look again to be sure. If there's no orientation labeling on samples (which there normally isn't), I generally just shine a flashlight at an angle onto the sample to see which way rejects light more and make sure that side goes toward the ceiling.

The ML F2.0 & F3.0 aren't bad with the lights off, but the 3.0 does sparkle the worse and is definitely the worse with the lights on. It doesn't reject ambient light much at all, and relies on its high gain to make it look brighter in ambient light. The F2.0 is pretty nice, but I'm trying to get closer to unity gain so the EPV DS 1.4 would be the one for me. I sure wish DNP would release ~1.4 gain screen, I'd be all over that. Really the only reason I haven't ordered an EPV DS 1.4 yet is because I'm waiting on them to release it in the eFinity Zero Edge style. But that's currently only available with the PolarStar 1.3 material.
 

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I have been testing the ML samples oriented landscape. I didn't see any little arrows, but I'll look again to be sure. If there's no orientation labeling on samples (which there normally isn't), I generally just shine a flashlight at an angle onto the sample to see which way rejects light more and make sure that side goes toward the ceiling.

The ML F2.0 & F3.0 aren't bad with the lights off, but the 3.0 does sparkle the worse and is definitely the worse with the lights on. It doesn't reject ambient light much at all, and relies on its high gain to make it look brighter in ambient light. The F2.0 is pretty nice, but I'm trying to get closer to unity gain so the EPV DS 1.4 would be the one for me. I sure wish DNP would release ~1.4 gain screen, I'd be all over that. Really the only reason I haven't ordered an EPV DS 1.4 yet is because I'm waiting on them to release it in the eFinity Zero Edge style. But that's currently only available with the PolarStar 1.3 material.
OK, I really do question the results, because everyone else sees the opposite - a little sparkle with the F2, but not the F3. If you do not see arrows on the sample, then I wonder if you received good samples? Check with Mike Garrett here at AVS.

Dave
 

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OK, I really do question the results, because everyone else sees the opposite - a little sparkle with the F2, but not the F3. If you do not see arrows on the sample, then I wonder if you received good samples? Check with Mike Garrett here at AVS.

Dave
I'll be doing a full comparison review and write-up pretty soon. I have a sheet of Lexan that I'm going to secure the samples to, so I don't have to tape them directly onto my screen. That shiny tape is distracting as well. I get all of samples manufacturer direct, so they are all legit. I also have a new OEM lamp I'll install so we know the lumens are as high as possible from my JVC. My friend is bringing over his Canon DSLR and tripod so I'll be able to post much better photos as well.
 

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I get all of samples manufacturer direct, so they are all legit.
But...if you don't have arrows on your samples, then perhaps they are not the latest samples? I tried to get samples from Michael (of Microlite), but he never did get me any samples. I was able to get my samples from Mike Garrett here at AVS. If you are going to be making these kinds of comparisons, it would be best to make absolutely sure that you have the latest from Microlite.

Dave
 

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But...if you don't have arrows on your samples, then perhaps they are not the latest samples? I tried to get samples from Michael (of Microlite), but he never did get me any samples. I was able to get my samples from Mike Garrett here at AVS. If you are going to be making these kinds of comparisons, it would be best to make absolutely sure that you have the latest from Microlite.

Dave
I'll check for arrows as I quite possibly just overlooked them. I've only had the samples for about 2 months now though, if that. So I doubt anything has changed with the material. And I got them directly thru Michael Chien. If there's no arrows, I may request samples from Mike G.
 

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I have been testing the ML samples oriented landscape. I didn't see any little arrows, but I'll look again to be sure. If there's no orientation labeling on samples (which there normally isn't), I generally just shine a flashlight at an angle onto the sample to see which way rejects light more and make sure that side goes toward the ceiling.

The ML F2.0 & F3.0 aren't bad with the lights off, but the 3.0 does sparkle the worse and is definitely the worse with the lights on. It doesn't reject ambient light much at all, and relies on its high gain to make it look brighter in ambient light. The F2.0 is pretty nice, but I'm trying to get closer to unity gain so the EPV DS 1.4 would be the one for me. I sure wish DNP would release ~1.4 gain screen, I'd be all over that. Really the only reason I haven't ordered an EPV DS 1.4 yet is because I'm waiting on them to release it in the eFinity Zero Edge style. But that's currently only available with the PolarStar 1.3 material.
Samples should have directional arrows on them.
 

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Yeah, that's kind of strange on the F2.0 and F3.0. It's inconsistent with what folks are finding - especially the F3.0. They're finding no artifacts with the F3.0 and just a little sheen with the F2.0. Are you sure you're not thinking about another screen brand?


Dave
I actually had a 88in F2 sample. I did not notice any sparkles or sheen unless I directly shined light onto the screen, which any screen would show artifacts that way. But watching material, I did not see any at all. I had my JVC RS35 right at the top of the screen and I got similar brightness with the HP 2.4 screen I have. The main benefit other than getting at least 1.6 gain, was that the blacks were not raised as much as on the HP screen. Brightness looked almost similar but the blacks on the F2 was better. The F2 is a darker grey material and the viewing cone was really good. As I moved around the room, the F2 held its brightness, while the HP did not. I do think the F2 is a better screen, even though its rated as 1.8 gain. In a light control room, it will look great. I know my sample was sample, just 88in, but the JVC looked amazing at lighting up the screen.
 

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OK, I really do question the results, because everyone else sees the opposite - a little sparkle with the F2, but not the F3. If you do not see arrows on the sample, then I wonder if you received good samples? Check with Mike Garrett here at AVS.

Dave
Here's the two pictures I took. They aren't the best quality as they were shot with a point-and-shoot, but they were taken in manual mode with the ISO adjusted in order to best represent what my eyes were seeing. I overlaid labels for the screen samples.

When I do my actual comparison review, I'll use my computer with full screen solid colors so each sample will be getting the same color at the same time...so take this with a grain of salt for now.

The key takeaways here is that you can tell that the DarkStar .9 & Supernova .8 look identical (you can't even see the seam where they meet). And the ML F3.0 is washed out more than the others and also isn't as bright as my Supernova 2.3. The ML F2.0 is pretty good, but I still prefer the DarkStar 1.4 as it has excellent contrast. But again, final judgement will be reserved until the final review with the same image on all of the samples and a much better camera on a tripod. :)

Lights Off: This is as dark as my room gets.


Lights On: I don't have any overhead lighting on here as they are spotlights and don't make much difference, but all of my kitchen lighting is on to the right.
 

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Pardon the interruption.
@zombie10k; Or anyone else who can answer this: With the JVC's, is the horizontal polarization occurring inside the machine? Is there any work around to be able to use other glasses.

I haven't picked out a screen yet so I want to be sure I'm covered in case it does retain polarization. I have a lead on the XPAND X105-RF-X3's but it's about 3x the cost of the X1 brethren. Still over half the cost of OEM JVC glasses.
 
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