[shankar]

Hello all,


After having done enough damage to my budget (thanks to this forum) , I'm now trying to get into the front projection technology. Have read a lot of posts here and elsewhere, but cannot get clarity.


I'm looking for some help in getting a good / affordable projector. Needs:


1. HDTV viewing (sports, movies). Need to work with Dish 811


2. Will be in the basement (can make it dark)


3. Need to work with my Toshiba SD3755 prog. scan DVD player.


4. Price

 

[shankar]




Anyone??

 

[gwlaw99]

There are no high definition projectors in that price range. The best you will get is DVD quality. Benq 6100 and infocus x1 are the ones most people buy in that price range.

 

[shankar]

Quote:

Originally posted by gwlaw99 There are no high definition projectors in that price range. The best you will get is DVD quality. Benq 6100 and infocus x1 are the ones most people buy in that price range.

OK, what does that mean really? That we'll have only 540 lines per inch instead of 1080? Many of our forum gurus are excited about the X1 and it's "HDTV" capability. How? Why?


Does the larger than life HD picture at DVD quality that amazing? Do yuo suggest that I get one from Best Buy and test it?? Unfortunately, I do not have a screen...


I have an off white wall upstairs where there is a Dish 6000... Hmm may be I'll try one...

 

[mgithens]

first off it is not "lines per inch".. that is total lines... a DVD is 540 LINES... HD is 720 LINES, etc... so the X1 and all projectors with the $1000 price tag are technically EDTV (Enhanced Def), which is the same as the $2500 Gateway Plasma that you see in the commercials... 480 LINES... now the X1 is 600 LINES tall, but that is in 4x3, so technically you need to reduce the line count for a 16x9 image...


ok, math time... 800x600 is 4x3, so we are gonna keep the 800, but reduce the lines (the 600 part) to a 16x9... well 16x12 is 4x3 (times 4)... so we are only gonna use 9 of the 12, or 75% of the line count... 600 x 0.75 = 450 LINES... technically less than EDTV, but the unit just lops off the extra lines and yields pixel for pixel rendering of 480P material without scaling... (normal TVs cut off some too)


So does this mean it is crap?? no, it just means that's what $1000 gets you... $2000 (ish) steps up to 1280x720, which is HDTV... which is what the $5000 plasmas are offering...


Something to realize that when you scale up to that size of viewing screen you have to realize that you are not gonna have a good picture for standard satellite. I find standard cable unwatchable and even some channels on DirecTV are just total crap. If I scaled picture quality from 0 to 100, with looking through a fish tank as 0 and actually sitting in the stands at the baseball game as 100 - then cable would get about a 10, Satellite would range from 40 to 60, DVDs would be 80 and HD would be 90. My screen is 80" diagonal 4x3 format. My next setup will be 16x9 and might stretch to 100".

 

[SkyLite]

Quote:

Originally posted by mgithens first off it is not "lines per inch".. that is total lines... a DVD is 540 LINES... HD is 720 LINES, etc... so the X1 and all projectors with the $1000 price tag are technically EDTV (Enhanced Def), which is the same as the $2500 Gateway Plasma that you see in the commercials... 480 LINES... now the X1 is 600 LINES tall, but that is in 4x3, so technically you need to reduce the line count for a 16x9 image... ok, math time... 800x600 is 4x3, so we are gonna keep the 800, but reduce the lines (the 600 part) to a 16x9... well 16x12 is 4x3 (times 4)... so we are only gonna use 9 of the 12, or 75% of the line count... 600 x 0.75 = 450 LINES... technically less than EDTV, but the unit just lops off the extra lines and yields pixel for pixel rendering of 480P material without scaling... (normal TVs cut off some too) So does this mean it is crap?? no, it just means that's what $1000 gets you... $2000 (ish) steps up to 1280x720, which is HDTV... which is what the $5000 plasmas are offering... Something to realize that when you scale up to that size of viewing screen you have to realize that you are not gonna have a good picture for standard satellite. I find standard cable unwatchable and even some channels on DirecTV are just total crap. If I scaled picture quality from 0 to 100, with looking through a fish tank as 0 and actually sitting in the stands at the baseball game as 100 - then cable would get about a 10, Satellite would range from 40 to 60, DVDs would be 80 and HD would be 90. My screen is 80" diagonal 4x3 format. My next setup will be 16x9 and might stretch to 100".

Thanks mgithens! That has helped me alot. Finally was able to get the old light bulb turned on with that simple explanation. Just couldn't get it to sink in before.


Thanks again.

Ed

 

[shankar]

mgithens, thanks.


So, when the X1 and Benq6100 go to the 16:9 mode, the have only 450 lines. This should then mean that the 1/4 HD projectors such as the Z1 should be better for HDTV since they are 16:9 native, right?


Thanks again.

 

[mgithens]

exactly... but for 4x3 material they'll have slightly less resolution because they'll be 540 line instead of 600...


another thing to look at is scaling, pixel for pixel rendering is usually better... if you want to get an idea of what a scaled digital picture looks like, grab a laptop and change the resolution to anything other than it's native resolution... so turn 1024x768 to 800x600 and you'll quickly see the importance of trying to avoid scaling... don't get me wrong, a 720p signal on my X1 is the finest image I can imagine, it is scaled to 450p... for video it isn't such a big deal, but it does reduce the quality because there is more processing to the signal... I am still happy with DVD on my X1...


the benefit to a 540 line setup (1/4 HD size) is that a 1080i signal is easily "crammed" into 1/2 the lines... because ALL digital projectors are progressive ALL of the time... 720p will still be phenomenal, but with 1080 into 540 you get 2 dots (of signal) into one dot (on screen) scaling... 720p into 480p gets you 1.5 dots into one dot... and 720p into 540p gets you 1.3333 dots into one dot...


on a total side note, don't ever try to compare lumen output between projectors... the manufacturer's rating is WAY overrated... you can get that brightness, but not at a watchable picture quality... I am getting about 500 to 600 lumens out of my X1 which is rated at 1100... read up at www.projectorcentral.com to get a better idea of actual output for the model you are looking at, in the reviews he usually gives the "true" output...

 

[shankar]

Quote:

Originally posted by mgithens exactly... but for 4x3 material they'll have slightly less resolution because they'll be 540 line instead of 600...

Got it. I watch minimal 4:3, but even that is fed to the TV/projector via the Dish 811, through its component outs. From what I have heard, the 811 scales it to 1080i (or is it 480i?). Will that be better or worse on the Z1? On my Toshiba HDTV, the 4:3 channels look great...


Looks like the Z1 for me..


Shankar

 

[mgithens]

size is the issue... stretching low quality video to really big just exaggerates the low quality... watching cable on a 19" tv will look good, and satellite on a 27" TV will look good, but at 80" it is extremely obvious the lack of detail...