AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm planning on upgrading from a 50"plasma to a projector. I have heard a great deal about Runco and the new Sharp. I've read over some old posts but I'm getting more confused than ever. Does anyone know any good links that explains this hardware well.


ALL INPUT WILL HELP GREATLY



Thanks

Sydney
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
Well, your best bet is to take the time and search through the forum to find what people like and dislike about the various projectors. Then go and demo them for yourself and see what looks good to you. Obviously there are a lot of factors that can make comparisons difficult: are the individual units calibrated ("tweaked") properly?; what sort of screen are they being displayed on?; and of course, how good is your memory at retaining one visual experience against another over the space of days/weeks? Are any of the demos being run through a video processor? Are they being fed a progressive or an interlaced DVD signal? Is the sound system the audio is being piped through different - and thereby influencing your decision? What sort of lighting control do you have in your home theater? How comfortable are you with tweaking the system? How much of a gambler are you (overseas purchase at great discount, but no warrantee)?


I have been looking at units that can be had for ~$10K, with a valid warrantee, and have come up with the following:


Sharp 9000

Marantz 12S1

Seleco HT300

Dwin Transvision II (to be released soon?)


You can find more details on each of these by searching the forum. IMHO (which may be disputed by other forum memers), the Sharp is generally higly regarded, but the deinterlacer is not as good as some other offerings.


The Marantz has a very loyal following, but has suffered from some flicker problems (which Dan Miller from Marantz tells us are now resolved).


The Seleco seems to walk on water, judging by the owners who have voiced their opinion on AVS.


The Dwin TV2 is not yet out, but a number of people (including one of our esteemed moderators) seem to feel that it has the potential to be an exceptional system.


I have not looked at the Barco's, so I cannot comment on them. Also, I do not own ANY FP unit, so you may want to discount everything I have said as just another window shopper. But I am in a similar situation as you - looking for the best system for my dollar and scared to death that I will pick the "wrong" one.


After all I have read on AVS and seen in showrooms, I think I would be happy with any of the systems mentioned above - but I would always wonder whether I couldn't have gotten a better system at a lower price.


Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,501 Posts
Sydney,

You might want to make a decision of which technology you want to use. If you have a HT that has problems with lighting control, either due to architecture or to WAF, you will need a pretty bright pj. At the price range that you mention you will not be able to get a three panel DLP so you need to check how much rainbows affect you and yours. DILA (LCOS) technology makes for a great pj, I chose it, but you must want a pretty active level of participation in the hobby to get the best out of the thing.


I have not done a very good job of organizing a decent answer to your question. I am trying to say that there are a few questions for you to answer before you choose a pj. Art
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
581 Posts
Dear Sydney


As mentioned in an earlier post, you should state your room conditions and what sources you mainly would like to watch.

How big will the screen be, where do you want to mount your projector (distance) and so on..........


Since you are ready to spend a lot of money you should go to a dealer to compare the following devices:


Sharp XVZ-9000

SIM HT300

Marantz12S1

AND the new Barco Cineversum.


My dealer has seen the Barco and was impressed.

BTW I'm a happy Sharp 9000 owner.


Cheers


Anthony
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
821 Posts
I'll supply my two cents. As people have already pointed out, there are several technologies to choose from. From oldest to newest, the list goes: CRT, LCD, DLP, LCOS (D-ILA). Others can correct me if they want. My observations:


CRT: Theoretically the best picture, but low lumens and calibration woes. Plus, replacing the tubes is expensive. A dated technology that is on its way out the door.


LCD: Terrible. This technology has the worst case of the "screen door effect", which refers to the phenomenon of having individual pixels surrounded by big ol' black lines. Plus, it's taken for granted that dead pixels are a given with this variety of projector. Ironically (or more like "pathetically"), the image can be improved by deliberately displaying it slightly out of focus.


DLP: Image can be good, but this technology comes in two flavors. Single-chip (a-la the Sharp 9000 that people will often recommend) and three-chip, the latter variety costing something like $30k+. The screen door effect is apparent, but considerably less so than with LCD. The deal breaker with this technology is the "rainbow" artifact, which only plagues the single-chip variety. I saw the Sharp 9000 in action a few weeks back. Without knowing specifically what to look for, it took me all of ten seconds to notice examples of the rainbow artifact. Frankly, it amazes me that the single-chip variety of this technology has survived as well as it has, with such a glaring issue.


LCOS: The newest of the four technologies and the one I have decided to pursue. What I like about it: Highest "fill factor" of all the digital projector technologies (this refers to the space between the pixels; less is preferable), dead pixels are all but unheard-of, no glaring display artifacts, no real risk of burn-in (unless the votages were improperly set at the factory.. a possibility I still have to figure out a method for ascertaining), highest resolutions among digital projectors. Basically, this technology has the others beat, and has the brightest future. The only drawback that leaps to mind is the current dearth of models which can output an accurate color temperature, decently bright ansi lumens, AND last longer than a pathetic 1000 hours per lamp.


Note: As you were likely to discover on your own but I'll save time by mentioning now, LCOS is the technology. "D-ILA" is just what JVC calls their LCOS stuff. Nonetheless, it may be important to know that the technology may differ at least slightly, between manufacturers. For example, the Hitachi 5500, which uses LCOS technology, has a crippling limitation because of the way they implemented it. One cannot give the Hitachi 5500 a video signal which corresponds exactly to its maximum resolution.


Anyway, my recommendation isn't anything along the lines of going out and seeing what you like. I have to flat-out recommend LCOS. Or more specifically, D-ILA (JVC's LCOS, remember), since the only good LCOS projectors (in my estimation) are all D-ILA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,645 Posts
Colmino


"the Hitachi 5500, which uses LCOS technology, has a crippling limitation because of the way they implemented it. One cannot give the Hitachi 5500 a video signal which corresponds exactly to its maximum resolution."


all DVD's DSS OTA have to be scaled to the res of the panel. it can be done by the projector or a HTPC or a scaler. The Hitachi has a good scaler and for its price it is a good projector. Have youy seen one in action or are you just posting what you have read
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
86 Posts
Although I agree with pretty much everything you said, and love the look of LCOS (D-ILA), a negative I've noticed is heat and noise. It seems that all the major players with this technology have very high-wattage bulbs which require high air-flow. The JVC G15, for example, sounds like a jet plane when compared to the volume of an equivalent lumen DLP projector. I can only guess it's because DLP uses mirrors which very efficiently reflect the light. I assume the LCOS panels are never quite as reflective as a pure mirror, hence losing more light...


just my 2 cents... this negative may not be a big deal for you depending on your installation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,698 Posts
Sydney,

I recommend you see a well-set-up 9" CRT before making your decision. In my opinion, it is the non-film standard against which all projectors should be judged.

I'm not recommending you buy a CRT!

Once again, I'm not recommending you buy a CRT!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,351 Posts
Two points:


1)Colmino - dead pixels are not 'unheard of' in DILA. In fact, they are fairly common, although JVC has a pretty good policy against them showing up in the center of the screen. Dead mirrors are nearly unheard of in 1-chip DLP, however.


2)PUCK - the new home-theater version of the G15 (G150 or something like that) is specifically optimized for low-noise and heat issues.



My 2 cents - If you need a large picture (100"+) or want to watch the picture in a not-totally-dark room, then your best bet is DILA. Best picture, and all the limitations can be solved. Also the best support through this forum for any questions you might have.


If you want a smaller image or are fine with a dark room, then $18K buys you a *lot* of CRT projector.


There are nice LCD and DLP projectors coming out, especially for the price, but if you want the best image have have the budget that you do then DILA and CRT are the only real choices, IMO.


Andy K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,351 Posts
BTW Puck, its not because the DILA light path is less efficient that the fans are stronger/louder. Its because of the Xenon bulb, which produces a better balanced spectrum. The disadvantage is that Xenon bulbs are less efficient, which means more power gets converted to heat.


Andy K.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,235 Posts
Since youre price range accomodates it, while you're looking at all the other HD1 based DLP pjs you should check out the Runco vx1000. btw I'm a very happy marantz owner.

TM


pS - if you're in NYC stereo exchange sells the sharp, the marantz and the runco
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
821 Posts
> all DVD's DSS OTA have to be scaled to the res of the panel. it can be done by the projector or a HTPC or a scaler.


The point behind my saying what I did is that no projector's internal scaler is what anyone would call "great". And I suppose that's to be expected; "real" scalers cost thousands of dollars, and since they already exist on the market, manufacturers probably feel disinclined to dramatically increase the cost of their projecters just to support a potentially redundant feature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,501 Posts
I really did not state this well before: Do you want a turnkey operation or do you want a hobby? Nothing wrong with either, but you are not likely to find a LCOS system that does not demand some understanding and effort on your part. If you don't mind and , in fact, actually enjoy working with the thing you will go crazy about LCOS. Don't do it if you want to be passive. Puck's notion that the lack of reflectivity is the reason for the necessity of loud cooling is, I think, wrong. The xenon bulb used by JVC is responsible for both the wonderful color and the need for great cooling. One really does need a hushbox or something of the sort. Art
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,766 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by PUCK
The JVC G15, for example, sounds like a jet plane when compared to the volume of an equivalent lumen DLP projector.
Although I recognize that this is somewhat a matter of opinion, as people perceive things differently, I do think this is an exaggeration. And it was statements like this that made me rule out a DILA initially. I first went the DLP route, then LCD, and was so dissatisfied that I had no choice but to try a G-15 as a last resort. I found the G-15's picture to be much better than the DLP's (rainbows) and the LCD's (screendoor) I tried, and I also found the heat and noise to be quite a bit overrated. I also found that the G-15 did not require hardly any more tinkering than a DLP or LCD, but if you wanted to tinker and really go crazy you could do that too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,132 Posts
If size of PJ does not matter, screen size requirement of 8 feet wide or less, and have a darkened room, professionally installed, setup, and calibrated 9" CRT is the best image for your amount of money. Although the tubes are expensive to replace, it has a life span of 10000 hours or more. While it's true that technology is advancing beyond CRT, CRT is still considered the "gold" standard for what FPTV should be. A 9" CRT and screen size mentioned will give you plenty of brightness. It function like a RPTV with plenty of contrast, colors, and dark level details. This is the digital forum so we will be biased toward this side of the force. Check the CRT forum out for other ideas. I love my NEC LT150 but it only cost me $2100 new. If I had 18K to spend, I'd get a 9" CRT. The main draw back of CRT is setup, maintenance, and such. If you have it professionally setup, calibrated, and maintained yearly, it'll still fall within your budget. As long as you don't change your screen, image size, location of PJ, not much maintenance has to be done very often (yearly cleaning and maintenance is recommended). Throw in a nice scaler and you'd be set for beautiful imagery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,351 Posts
I disagree with the idea that DILA is any more or less turnkey than any other solution. You can get a fully turnkey DILA solution in one of two ways:


1)Buy the new HT-optimized model

2)Buy a G15 and have it calibrated professionally


In either case, what you are left with is a projector that does not need to be hand-tweaked, ever, if you choose. Having the ability to do so is a strength of these projectors, not a weakness.


Andy K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,099 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Colmino


LCD: Terrible. This technology has the worst case of the "screen door effect", which refers to the phenomenon of having individual pixels surrounded by big ol' black lines. Plus, it's taken for granted that dead pixels are a given with this variety of projector. Ironically (or more like "pathetically"), the image can be improved by deliberately displaying it slightly out of focus.
That's an extreme and narrow review. If screen door is the only criteria you choose a projector, LCDs are certainly the worse. But for bright images and vibrant colors, LCD are arguably top dog. My XP-21n with a Panamorph driven by an HTPC in perfect focus will not look 'terrible' next to any projector, unless you insist on watching movies from closer than 8' on an 100" screen. And BTW, I have no dead pixels in over 500 hours of use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
866 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Huey
If size of PJ does not matter, screen size requirement of 8 feet wide or less, and have a darkened room, professionally installed, setup, and calibrated 9" CRT is the best image for your amount of money. Although the tubes are expensive to replace, it has a life span of 10000 hours or more. While it's true that technology is advancing beyond CRT, CRT is still considered the "gold" standard for what FPTV should be. A 9" CRT and screen size mentioned will give you plenty of brightness. It function like a RPTV with plenty of contrast, colors, and dark level details. This is the digital forum so we will be biased toward this side of the force. Check the CRT forum out for other ideas. I love my NEC LT150 but it only cost me $2100 new. If I had 18K to spend, I'd get a 9" CRT. The main draw back of CRT is setup, maintenance, and such. If you have it professionally setup, calibrated, and maintained yearly, it'll still fall within your budget. As long as you don't change your screen, image size, location of PJ, not much maintenance has to be done very often (yearly cleaning and maintenance is recommended). Throw in a nice scaler and you'd be set for beautiful imagery.
I would have to agree with Huey here. I will start by saying that I own a Marantz VP-12s1 and love it. It seems to be the easiest projector to set up and use! I have no flicker problems. The colors are really great. I dont notice any rainbows.

That said, when I purchased the Marantz ( while I was in Japan a few months ago at a store called AVAC ) they had the Marantz set up on one screen and a Barco $20K PJ on another screen side by side. Well, there was NO comparison! The CRT with 9" guns BLEW IT AWAY!!!!! But, was I willing to have that monster CRT on my ceiling and deal with the maintenance issues of CRT stated above? NOPE! But you might be. And if you did then your picture would be awesome!!!

Bernie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
Sydney.. You definately should look at the Runco VX1000C, the Seleco HT-300 and the new DWIN (which is due soon) all these PJ have the HD-1 chip (16:9).. also remember the new HD-2 chip is expected this fall. Also, there is always the DVI issue to consider which is just around the corner. Take your time and audition every PJ at length. ps: some people have reported getting eye-strain and/or headaches with DLP's, so make sure no one in your family are effected this way. Have fun, do your research and take your time. Ron AZ
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top