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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What a day !!!


The shoot out between all the projectors went well, the tests were carried out using Vutec Vu-Flex Pro sceen 1.3 gain, Pioneer 737 progressive scan DVD player with both interlaced or progressive settings,

the Silicon image Iscan Pro, or the HTPC which runs a 1.1 Ghz Athlon, G-force 2 Pro graphics card, Power DVD, and Powerstrip to give custom resolutions.


First off the Sony VW10HT which has been running for 18 months now, the sony has been set up calibrated as best we can using RGB gain and bios adjustments and Video Essentials or Referenz DVD test discs.

The image has always looked fine with good colour uniformity across the screen although black level has never been a strong point.

With interlaced DVD the picture is Ok, jaggies are visible on many scenes. With the introduction of progressive scan the image is significantly improved with better colour, improved black level and detail within the black.

The Iscan pro improved the image again with less visable jagged edges and fast moving scenes were smoother, although the image appeared softer.

Next the HTPC running 1184 x 666 resolution the projector see's a 720p signal. Best source by far, gives a more film like appearence and virtually no signs of any edging problems. Colour and black levels are also improved with more flexable colour control options.


The JVC G15 D-ILA projector appears at first glance to be a vast improvment on the VW10, the picture structure is far improved over LCD and black levels are superior, although not as much as I would have hoped for.

Forget running this projector with normal interlaced DVD, progressive is a minimum but it doesnt really show any good results until the PC is connected and running at 1360 x 768p the picture is just superb.

I found the colour very difficult to get correct, and couldn't set the brightness and contrast as I would have liked, but the image quality is excellent and no visalbe line structure from about 4' away.

Its a shame about the Fan noise, but with the right installation, correct scaleing and set up this projector would be very good.


I've never been a great fan of DLP and the rainbow effect has driven me crazy in the past, I always walk away with a headache and eye strain.

The Sim2 HT200 surprised me to how good the image quality actually is for 800 x 600. The progressive DVD showed signs of jagged edges and panning of the " Gladiator I salute you " scene from the film Gladiator had the background town moving all over the place.

introduce the Iscan and most of these problems disappear and panning being far smoother. The rainbow effect also seemed to reduce ( dont know how ).

The HTPC running 800 x 600 again was an improvement and image detail far crisper than the 480p from the Iscan pro. We tried 1024 x 768 and let the projector downscale to native 800 x 600 with good results but not a vast improvement over 800 x 600.

The colours were well balanced with reds showing as red and black is a definite improvement over the Sony, Its mainly noticable with the detail in the black level.

Overall this projector is excellent and I suggest that anyone with doughts about this unit get and see one demonstrated well. It's well worth it!!


As a bonus the HT250 was brought along, the projector had a few issues that had not been finalised but the added resolution sharpened up the image. The iscan did a very good job, but this projector needed to see a better resolution so the PC fed it 1280 x 720p which looked stunning.

The picture was instantly transformed, the detail has to be seen to be believed, the improved depth added another dimension to the picture. Everything that you wanted to see was there, and sharp.

The interesting thing was the image didn't soften as much as the other projectors did when fed with the HTPC.

I feel the Black level wasn't as good as the HT200, maybe this would be sorted out in the future, or maybe just needed more time and setting up.

While it was here a software upgrade was performed to try and get rid of some of the issues, how easy it was to do, download and install to projector, nice. At least you know if there a problem in can hopefully be fixed quickly and easily.

The rainbow effect on the HT250 is minimal, and there is talk of a new colour wheel in the pipeline ( who knows when!! ) which should help even more.


Conclusion:


Check them out for yourselves, but get a good demo!. All the projectors have good and bad points. One may suit you or your installation better than the others.

One thing for sure is the better the source the better the picture you will get, the Iscan Pro is a great easy to set up unit that improves all the above projectors, but the HTPC when set up correctly is just awsome.

I would have loved to have had a more expensive Scaler ( farouga or likes ) to compare at the same time, but hey "Rome wasn't built in a day".


Any views would be appreciated.


Sparky.

 

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Wow, great review, I had no idea this was so chocked full of goodies from the title. Thank you Sparky!


Re the rumour about the color wheel, is this in reference to the Selecos? I am guessing it will be either or both a six section color wheel and higher color wheel speed. There's general consensus that this will have an impact on rainbow effect. Either/both should be showing up in new DLP projectors very shortly.


This thread is just another confirmation that we may as well get used to the idea of spending several thousands on outboard processing/HTPC if we want to get out of these projectors what they are capable of.


Dan
 

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Sparky,


What a gem!


my 2p.


-Mr. Wigggles


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You kept mentioning that things "improved" when you went from progressive-scan DVD to the IScan. Does this mean you saw an improvement feeding the IScan 480I and having it double to 480P vs using the direct 480P output from the progressive-scan DVD player you used?


I would have thought that a progressive-scan DVD would be equal to, if not better than, an outboard 480P doubler using analog 480I as the source.


-dave


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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi dave,


The answer to your question is the Iscan was an improved image in that it removed any jagged edges better than the Pioneer DVD. The general picture quality was enhanced and the motion seemed better.


I would choose the Iscan with 480i over the DVD player at 480p any day. The player is not the best available £ 700 UK but for a few hundred more the 2 box solution is better.


Sparky
 

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Isn't that what Dwin is saying for the Transvision also, i.e., that you should not feed the Dwin's outboard processor a progressive signal, but instead feed it an interlaced signal and let the processor create the progressive signal? If so, this would seem to confirm Sparky's observations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I think that the Sim2 HT250 will be packaged with the Farouga fixed rate Scaler not sure if its going to be internal or outboard. It seems Sim2 are going to consentrate on the light engine and get farouga to do the scaleing for them.


The new 6 segment colour wheel will be interesting, there is no white section so black level's should be increased.


Out of all the projectors tested I think the DLP has still got the most potential. As soon as the rainbow effects are minimalised and 16:9 becomes affordable ( seems like about £ 11000 is estimated for the September 16:9 DLP ).


There is talk of using the 800 x 600 chip and blanking off some of the panel. shame about the loss in resolution.800 x 450?


I wonder whats around the corner. Do I change my trusty VW10HT for DLP, maybe if the new colour wheel is such an improvement, or see what the JVC DLA-3010 is going to do.


Sparky
 

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Quote:
The answer to your question is the Iscan was an improved image in that it removed any jagged edges better than the Pioneer DVD. The general picture quality was enhanced and the motion seemed better.
Does that pioneer unit detect and reverse 3-2 pulldown? The reason I'm struggling here is that I've heard others report that (good) progressive-scan DVD players look superior to the IScan. One would expect that players that use DVD-O doubling ciurcuit would at least look identical, if not superior for lack of d/a/d video conversion.


Also, I'm wondering of the new IScan Pro produces true 480x720 resolution output. I knew the previous one outputted 480x640.


-dave


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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi David,


I dont think the Pioneer uses the DVD-O chip!!! I might be wrong.

the Iscan outputs a 480p NTSC or 576p PAL

It looks like the Pioneer does do a 3-2 pulldown.


All I can say is the Iscan was better than the progressive DVD.


Sorry cant help further


Sparky
 

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Sparky,


Which Pioneer DVD progressive scan DVD player were you using? Pioneer makes a cheap DVD player that it calls progressive scan, however, it doesn't do 3:2 inverse pulldown and it simply sucks - I've a/b ed it against other progressive scan DVD players. Also did you try an interlaced DVD player with the Selecos, and if so, what were the results?]


Cheers,


Grant Smyth
 

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manufacturers are not allowed to put vga or RGB connectors onto dvd players. The only dvd players that do have them are made by companies that modify existing players (camelot, arcam, ead.....).


Apex put out the 800 dvd player with vga outputs, but quickly took it off the shelf for this reason.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Grant,


I think the DV 737 that we used does not do a true 3-2 pulldown.

Maybe thats why the results show the Iscan as much better.

I did some testing with the 737 in interlaced mode and in progressive it was still better.


Sparky
 

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Well I compared the iscan pro receiving a 480i signal from my Tosh 6200 DVD player. The Tosh is connected to the component ins on my G11, while the iscan was connected to the VGA in.


The iscan seemed to improve the contrast ratio, but actually introduced more jaggies. The other thing was that my 2.35 anamorhic DVDs became stretched 1.85 DVD's, which I could not correct with the iscan.


Considering the analog conversions, the iscan did a very good job of deinterlace, but overall it is not worth it with a good progressive scan DVD player. A must for tv and non-progressive DVD.
 

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Bluedevils,


"manufacturers are not allowed to put vga or RGB connectors onto dvd players. The only dvd players that do have them are made by companies that modify existing players (camelot, arcam, ead.....)."


Here in Australia and especially in Europe you will find RGB outputs on some DVD players, with the physical interface being a SCART connector.
 

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Sparky,


Where did you get the software upgrade for the HT250, and did it improve anything. I have an HT250, and love it. I am awaiting a vigatec that should arrive next week. Thanks for the review.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
evillager,


The HT250 Software was a Beta version. It was in the evaluation stage at the time. There were still some issues with it. Keep looking on the Sim 2 site and as soon as they are available give them a try.


Sparky
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by smitty:
Isn't that what Dwin is saying for the Transvision also, i.e., that you should not feed the Dwin's outboard processor a progressive signal, but instead feed it an interlaced signal and let the processor create the progressive signal? If so, this would seem to confirm Sparky's observations.
Yes, I spoke to Dwin a couple of weeks ago, and they made it very clear that they want to be fed an interlaced signal. They are very confident about their processor's ability to produce an excellent picture.

This is great for me - now I can think about getting a Panamorph instead of having to buy a new DVD player right away (once I buy the Transvision).


Paul


[This message has been edited by pms67 (edited 04-28-2001).]
 
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