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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All,


My neighbor has recently been diving into home theater with both feet and is looking for a new sub system. He has heard my dual MFW-15's and likes them but he is sold on SVS for a couple of reasons. Those are really not pertinent to the question at hand. He is working with a roughly $2k budget and a 3000 ft^3 room. He is going with the MTS 5.x system and is debating between running dual PB12-Plus (new version, 12.4 which I haven't heard but the initial reports are all positive) or a single PB13 Ultra (which I have heard and think is awesome). His house is like mine, an open concept for the most part, but a little more, geometric in design for lack of a better word. Mine is based off of a great room, his flows from the living room around a corner into the dining area/kitchen and stairway, so while it is not enclosed the bend makes me wonder if it will cause a slightly reduce bass leak than if it were just open. He asked me for what I would prefer as he knows I have duals and Jack from SVS told him that the PB12+ x 2 will have more headroom which may benefit him. Makes sense but the Ultra would cost him a little less and is, well, an Ultra. Duals also help with the FR across the room but his wife is given him the "FINE" answer AKA "Why the He!! are we spending so much money on a stereo and these boxes are too big". He is mainly into movies and gaming as well as some classic rock music but from what I gathered it would be 40% TV/35% movies/15% gaming/10% music. I think he is hoping the single Ultra will be as good as/better than the dual PB12 Pluses even though physics would seem to dictate otherwise.




So, lets see what people here think, if it were you would you rather have one "super-sub" or two "good" subs?
 

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Duals
 

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In this case.....he can't go wrong either way.


One kick ass sub is always better than two lesser subs if set up properly.


However, I run an PB-12 Ultra/2 and a PB-12 Plus/2 and I'm in SVS heaven.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys. I just got the rough size of the downstairs for his house. It is roughly 4,225 cubic feet plus a stairway to the upstairs. That doesn't count the bath or closets as they are normally closed.


Can one Ultra handle that much airspace?
 

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This decision is about output, extension and in-room frequency response.


Dual subs will have 3 to 6 dB of additional output over a single of the same sub, (3 dB if their not co-located, 6 dB if the are.) Whether this will be more or less output than a single "better" sub, depends on the subs in question.


However, dual subs will not have more extension than a single of the same sub, (unless you use EQ, which would entail "boost", which should be used *very* carefully. Presumably, a "better" sub would have more extension.


In terms of in-room FR, dual subs have the potential to even out the FR over more seats than a single sub. However, this is completely setup dependent. If the single "better" sub can be placed so that it interacts with the room beneficially, it could have very good response over a broad listening area. If placement options are limited, then duals could improve the response.


So this decision is about your goals. Which do you value more, better FR over more seats, deeper extension or the most output?


Craig
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick /forum/post/15488103


Thanks guys. I just got the rough size of the downstairs for his house. It is roughly 4,225 cubic feet plus a stairway to the upstairs. That doesn't count the bath or closets as they are normally closed.


Can one Ultra handle that much airspace?


I think you must be careful about including the >4,000 cubic feet in your thinking. It's not the same as if he had a two story living room with a total of over 7,000 cubic feet.


If he actually had over 7,000 cubic feet, one big-ass sub would be better, IMHO.


If he actually had over 7,000 cubic feet, I might recommend this:

http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/ConquestOverview.html
 

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Get one great sub.


And then later if he wants he can buy another great sub!



It's better to have a few great pieces of audio equipment than having a bunch of mediocre pieces.
 

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I was having the exact same debate on what to do with my system. My room was much smaller, around 2500 cubic feet and was a dedicated ht/gaming room. I had one hsu sub and after much thought and experimentation, I decided to get another hsu rather then opt for larger powerfull sub.


After taking measurements from all seating areas with the hsu, I found that I had a null in certain areas but a fairly flate response in other areas. I decided to move the sub around and found that in another area, I had plenty lows in the area I had nothing.


So I decided, overall frequency response is what I desired because I had plenty of power to shake the room with just one in a certain area. Two will allow everyone in the room to enjoy the sub.


I guess you need to figure the volume of your room and if a single ultra is needed. I personally think a flatter response (using 2 or more subs) is better if you have multiple seating areas, like a row behind a row. If you have a general seating area, like a sofa, a proper positioned large sub should be sufficient.


Sometimes more powerfull single subs can be slightly overrated, with regard to cost and perfromance, if you are taking in consideration of multiple seating. Now if you can afford to chunk out $2800 for two ultra, that would be ideal for areas with multiple seats.
 

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On another thread, Ed Mullen from SVS was asked to compare the PB12-Plus with the PB13. His answer:


"...the PC13-Ultra is naturally a better subwoofer than the PC12-Plus, and its price reflects that.


Now dual PC12-Plus vs. a single PC13-Ultra and it's a much tougher decision. Dual PC12-Plus would play louder and have more headroom than a single Ultra, and would also provide the benefit of overlapping modal responses, which can result in a smoother FR at the listening positions."



That pretty much nails it down. I suspect the PB13 may have a bit of an edge on extension, but I'd bet that the PB12-Plus pair would generally out-perform the single PB13. Of course, one advantage of the single PB13 is that you would be starting out with something that is not that far below a pair of PB12's, but still have an option of doubling up to a pair of PB13's at a later time.


I will add this: A couple of years ago when I moved into multiple subs, it made a huge difference in the evening out of the bass throughout my room. It nearly eliminated the hot and cold spots.
 

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if he has to have svs, i would vote for the pb13 ultra. Why? it's a better sub than the plus. also, like ALL OF US here, he will likely want to upgrade in the future. this will allow him to enjoy the single ultra now, and then in a year, when he will get the bug to upgrade, he can add a second ultra. that should be an amazing about of bass for a 3000 cu ft room.


another option as mentioned above, would be to go with something like the epik conquest, if he can only have one and is able to hide it from his wife's direct line of sight. it is more powerful than the svs ultra, but also a much bigger box.
 
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