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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, so I'm not completely done tweaking. But mostly so. First tweak in many months, reported here, cost me nothing, moving in my Aerial subwoofers into the room and away from corners. Last Saturday, my friend Don Hoglund helped me change out and upgrade my two PS Audio P600s to the Multiwave 2, which involved changing out one card plus one chip per each P600nd the upgrade doesn't cost that much, especially at reviewer pricing which helps.


For some background, in my dedicated room home theater setup I found that with Multiwave 1, regular sinewave worked fine for my front end components (all mono amps and subwoofers are powered by their own 20 amp 10 guage wire circuits) which work off one P600; and my Dwin HD-700 CRT projector (with ECP color filtered red and green lens), Dwin Transcanner 2 and Extron S-Video switcher are powered off the second P600, which I ran at PS2 Multiwave square wave. Several years ago, when SGHT's John Gannon initially setup my system, we used Video Essentials test patterns and its Montage of Images video clips to compare 60 Hz sine vs PS2. On test patterns, the PS2 had more noise - but on the video clips, no question the PS2 looked more 3D and detailed, with Gannon agreeing I should use PS2, which I did , never lookin' back to 60 Hz sine wave for video the past almost three years.


Other than 60 Hz sine wave, at the time PS Audio said that with Multiwave 1, PS2 was the only other mode safe to use with components with synchronous fans. My Dwin HD-700 CRT projector does have I think two small fans (can't ever hear them). (Note - my JVC D-VHS VCR also has a cooling fan at its rear, and is powered by the other P600 set at 60 Hz sine wave.)


Note that the manual states that Multiwave 2's P-1 is an improved version of the Multiwave 1's PS2 square wave - so I would like to try it for my P600 used for video including Dwin components. But the Multiwave 2 manual states that components with AC synchronous motors, such as some cooling fans, should not be used with Multiwave patterns - use only with the 60 Hz sine wave. So initially, at least until Paul at PS Audio answers my question about using P-1 with my projector, I was hesitant to try it.


So initially, I set both P600s now with Multiwave 2 just to 60 Hz sine wave.

Within a few hours of getting my system back up, I watched Windtalkers in HD on HBO and really liked it. But at beginning of movie, non-war scenes, I thought picture looked good but perhaps a bit soft, then war scenes looked great. But of course I hadn't seen this movie before so really couldn't compare. Remaining Sat nite, Sunday and start of nite Monday watched # of programs and frankly, color looked great, but sharpness and black level didn't seem to be there compared to before. Monday nite just prior to "Everwood" in HD I switched my P600 for my projector and video to P-1 (I figured three years of suqare wave never hurt my projector so it wouldn't now), and within a few minutes picture looked pretty much like I remembered it. Tuesday nite watched a few shows and picture pretty good.

Meanwhile, as to sound, as my other P600 connected to my Theta CB2 and other front end gear, frankly, sound was ok but not as dynamic or clear as I'm used to. A disappointment. I told Don that look, its probably burn-in, cause I've experienced this before both with power cords and a P600 previously - so Don jokes, well, we can always put the upgrade back in the box and put back Multiwave 1 if we need to. HAAAA!!!


Don came over tonight so we could watch two HD episodes of "Smallville" back to back, and then we watched "Soundstage" in DD 5.1. Tonight was one of those unexpected nice moments. I was simply expecting picture to be about same as last week prior to upgrade, as once I switched P600 to P-1 square wave Monday nite "Everwood" looked fine like before.


Well, as my system warmed up, I put on HDNet Movies the old "Ocean Eleven". I had just watched part of it the other week. I noticed how the video looked sharper and clearer, didn't look as old a print as the other week. Then came "Smallville", and it never never looked this good good before. Sharper - I mean naturally sharper. More 3d. The stained glass at Luthor's looked like - real stained glass. Same for the red ruby posing as red kryptonite in the ring. You could see the makeup on the actors/actresses faces. One scene you could see Clark was wearing a red lipstick, and it wasn't from Lana. And "Soundstage" looked better, too.

And I turned channels and found the same story everywhere I looked. "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" in HD had looked sorta soft a few days before, now using P-1 looked great!!!


Tonight I wasn't expecting miracles yet with audio - I was thinkin' it would still need some more burn-in, and I was just using 60 Hz sine wave like before, and my system sounded so good already (ask Mike Parker here at AVS Forums) that I really couldn't expect to notice any improvement.

And the past few days my system really didn't sound as good as before, which I had hoped was burn-in. Well, tonight my system sounded as good as ever - I think better than ever. And of course I am totally familiar with the sonics of "Smallville" and "Soundstage". In fact, I had just watched the same "Soundstage" a fews days before (the night after the upgrade) and it certainly sounded much better tonight.


Sonically, is the Multiwave 2 better than Multiwave 1??? I think it may be - but I really haven't lived with it long enough. I do know that tonight I have no doubt that Multiwave 2 at least equals Multiwave 1, using 60 Hz sine wave, for audio in my home theater system.


I will report more on this from time to time as I continue to use my system.
 

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QUOTE BY STEVE B. "Then came "Smallville", and it never never looked this good good before. Sharper - I mean naturally sharper. More 3d. The stained glass at Luthor's looked like - real stained glass. Same for the red ruby posing as red kryptonite in the ring. You could see the makeup on the actors/actresses faces. One scene you could see Clark was wearing a red lipstick, and it wasn't from Lana."



Oh yeah, this was awesome clarity and colors. The stained glass at Luthor's was backlit with accent lights and really made the glass look real on the screen. The detail and clarity of colors even in poorly lit scenes would really make period movies a lot more fun to watch. You could really get the feel and detail from carefully placed movie props that were from the correct period to match the movie timeframe. "Public Eye" with Joe Pesci comes to mind. What a great 1940's vintage for people who love the Art Deco period. The props in that movie were impressive.


Steve also mentions the makeup on the actors. I think Hollywood may have to rethink makup as more people adopt HDTV and get better picture quality like Steve. Seeing Clark Kent with dark ruby red lipstick was a bit much.
 

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I just installed my MW-2 two weekends ago.

I only use my P600 on my JVC SX21 projector while a Shunyata Hydra supplies my audio front-end.


A few days ago I sat there and switched between the new Muilt-Wave settings. For me, the changes were sooo subtle as to be neglible. But as I cycled through the settings, I seemed to land on the P-3 setting a few times.


I hope to soon compare the upgraded P600 to the Hydra on my audio front- end, and will report back.


- Andy
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
There is no doubt that my video has gone up another notch with the Multiwave 2 improvement - when I use the P-1 square wave setting. I've noticed this on a number of programs the past few days. Now not each program necessarily, but mostl On HD stuff in particular, its even more naturally 3d, the outlines of people and objects is more naturally 3d even than before. Some of the gals in HD look even better, too!


Really haven't watched DVDs yet. Will let you know later at some pont when I take some time to do this.


Also, Don Hoglund is going to bring some test equipment over sometime, when he gets a chance (he is very busy getting ready for CES, as he has several rooms right on the first floor, the first rooms, at "The Show" which is at the St. Tropea right next to CES at The Alexis Park hotel) and he will be able to measure noise at my Bryston amps (if any multiwave settings make any difference) as well as component frequency response on the different settings.


Sonically, no doubt my system now sounds as good as before, using 60 Hz Sine wave. May sound better - at times I think it may - but my system already sounded so darn good that its hard to tell with any reliability without being able to directly AB.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Here's the response from Paul McGowan of PS Audio re use of Multiwave 2 if the component has a fan:


"A synchronous fan vs. a non-synchronous fan and why is it OK to run?


Wouldn't it be cool if all this stuff was a no-brainer? But, it's not. Actually, this is a great question.


OK, basically one is an AC fan and the other is a DC fan. It's pretty simple.


An AC fan relies on the frequency of the incoming AC to set it speed. To do this it uses a type of motor that is phase sensitive, so if you change the frequency of the AC the fan slows down or speeds up only a little but it also gets inneficient and complains and eventually could suffer damage if the frequency is too far off.


It is called a synchronous motor because its speed is synchronized by the AC frequency.


A non-synchronous fan is a fan that doesn't rely or care about the frequency of the incoming AC - in fact, it usually wants to see DC.


Most fans in equipment are DC or non-synchronous fans. So, because they are powered from an internal power supply - internal to the projector - then the fan itself could care less what frequency the projector itself is fed.


Feeding the projector MultiWaves then doesn't matter. At least to the fan. "
 

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I've had a P300 with Multiwave (1) for a long time on my line level gear. I

notice differences in the settings, subtle for the most part, and I believe that it takes a little bit of time for each setting to "settle" in. But for the most part, the solid 60Hz. sine wave sounds great, and for some reason, really seems like the "healthy" thing to feed my gear.


Ask me a year from now, I may feel different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I had liked for Multiwave 1 the PS1 setting - but then a few years ago, with my upgrade from Theta Casablanca 1 to the 2 version, as well as some other system accessory improvements, we found that the various Multiwave modes no longer seemed to sound different in short term AB testing, and since then I've used 60 Hz sine wave only for my P600 dedicated to front end components - but my 2nd P600 for my Dwin projector I use the P-1 (PS2 with prior Multiwave 1) and it really makes a solid improvement - one I just wouldn't believe it I didn't clearly see it myself.
 

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I just discovered this thread through the PS Audio newsletter! I upgraded to mulitwave II a few months ago and have been afraid to try anything other than the 60 Hz sine wave with my projector. Like Steve, I previously used the PS2 setting... can't wait to try the P1 setting later today! Thanks for the info, Steve.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You are welcome. And everything I said before is absolutely right in [email protected] The picture is actually even better with the new Multiwave 2 using P1 than it had been with Multiwave 1 with PS2 (both are the square wave settings). I do feel that musically, my system is a bit more quieter and microdynamic than before now that I've had the opportunity for some extended listening, too. I'm still just using 60 Hz sine wave for my front end audio components as I'm enjoying it so much.
 

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I've found MWAVE 4 to sound significantly better than Sine on my P1000. I've got my Theta CBII, DavidII and HD decoder plugged into it. Previously I had a P600 and found MW5 to sound the best.


I've thought about plugging my projector into the P1000, but that would require a 30' power cord which wouldn't be optimal. The other problem is that if my NEC HT1000 projector has an AC-synched fan (I don't know which it has), then I wouldn't be able to use MWAVE 4 and my system would look better but not sound as good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Tim, odds are that the NEC fan probably works off its power supply, being a DC fan, and you're probably ok. Check with NEC or maybe some techs who repair NEC projectors to make sure.


I haven't tried the other Multiwaves yet and I'm in no hurry. I agree that when you try a new multiwave it can take some time to stabilize and break in. And previously 60 Hz sine wave was as good as it gets with my front end audio, and the MW1 PS2 and now MW2 P-1 square wave for video.


Re the long power cord, Granite Audio has a good special on a long one, which I use. If interested, e-mail me and I'll give you details on how to get a good deal. I use about a 22' cord with my projector.
 

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I think I will take your advice and check with NEC regarding the type of fan. If that checks out, then I might be interested in the long power cord. I'm guessing that a 25-30 foot Granite Audio cable would be quite expensive even with a good deal. I did check with PS Audio. They can do custom lengths of the Prelude power cable which is shielded. Is the Granite cable shielded? The power cable would have to run parallel to the video cables (Wireworld Ultraviolet 5) for part of it's length. I assume shielding would help here.


Any opinion as to whether the long length and proximity to video cables would undo the benefits of the P1000?


Thanks, Tim
 

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I didn't have time to try the P-1 setting for video yesterday, but like Tim, I've settled on the P-4 for music -- significant widening of the soundstage for me. I have my EAD Theatervision P and Sunfire Theatergrand running from my P600.
 

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I have been doing an audio comparison over the last 3 days with my P600 & Hydra.


I have owned my P600 with M-Wave for about 3 years.

Then about 1+ years ago I needed another PLC and bought a Shunyata Hydra with Python power cord.

In an audio head-to-head back then, I easily preferred the Hydra over the P600, which concurred with many users at AudioAsylum who came to the same conclusion .

So the Hydra has been on my audio system, and the P600 on my projector, DVD player, HTPC.


My 2-channel system is now a highly-mod'ed Sim Audio Eclipse CDP -> EVS attenuators -> Bryston 3-way active crossover -> Sim Audio Titan amp - > Waveform Mach 17 tri-amped speakers. And lots of power cord, isolation & vibration tweaks.


Well I'll be darned, I now easily prefer the P600 with Multi-Wave 2 over the Hydra. I have been running the P600-MW2 on SIN & P-1 settings. I have not been moving any gear over the last 3 days to give the Hydra and the rest of the system time to mechanically settle.


With the Hydra in the system, the sound is more laid back with a sense of a minor "veil" in camparison to the P600.

With the P600 in the system, the sound is cleaner, more detailed, more dynamic, with better imaging & depth, and separation of instruments. I am really impressed !


- Andy
 
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