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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalo56 /forum/post/13948768


Will the PS3IR+BT be able to turn the ps3 on/off? I dont need the extra inputs.

Yes, it will support all 51 functions the same as the Sony BD Remote, including of course, power ON/OFF and the PS key.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by detwetter /forum/post/13953630


Having a field upgradeable unit, gives Mike and us owners, the ability to add features, as needed or wanted. For example, Mike could add internal macros to the PS3IR-PRO. For us harmony owners, the built in Macro/Sequence support is just plain horrible. There is no ability to add delays to any part of the macro. Mike could theoretically give us a Power Off Macro that is controlled by the PRO, not the harmony, as the harmony does a terrible job of maintaining the Power State of devices, if you turn them off manually from the harmony.


That's just one of the many possibilities, as I see it anyway.


Ed

Understood.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckenisell /forum/post/13949403


Why would it be naive to think that? If that were the case, then Sony would need to come out with ANOTHER PS3 BT remote that has additional functionality. And I don't think that's going to happen. If your PS3IR-PRO really does do all of the functions of the Sony BT remote, then why would the PS3IR-PRO ever really need to be firmware upgraded?

I would think the biggest reason is to add features and macros to support remotes that don't have really good macro capabilities. There are many out there.


But, who really knows what the future holds? For instance: for any reason (or no apparent reason), Sony could take a stand that using their IR codes in a competing device (not the same as a remote) is wrong and take steps to quash that. We would all have to change code sets. Or Sony could modify the PS3 firmware to only work with the BD remote. This is actually likely to happen by accident. They make a change and unwittingly rely on some minor behavior of the BD remote such as response times. In all cases it is still Bluetooth compatible but, the IR to Bluetooth converters would cease to function until we adjusted to that.


Here is an easy one to grasp. What if Sony decided to tweak a part of the pairing process or any other GUI type of thing. They would only need to change the PS3 firmware since the user instructions and response logic is all defined there. The devices would all need to be adjusted for this. Over time, Sony will do whatever they want to evolve the PS3 and the way it operates. They will test against their own devices, not any third party devices. So it is likely that at some point they will break something by accident.


Nobody can afford to do a recall of every device if something comes up in the future. That's why I have added this capability to the PRO (and soon the PS3IR+BT). If any mid size or smaller company was faced with recalling all it's product, there are few options available. Either leave the customer hanging or go out of business due to the cost of fixing the problem on such a large scale. It is just a risky business practice that is totally avoidable. My first product did not have field update capability either. But, over the past year, it has become clear how much better it would be to have this capability built in.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by detwetter /forum/post/13953630


...as the harmony does a terrible job of maintaining the Power State of devices, if you turn them off manually from the harmony.

It doesn't do a terrible job of maintaining the power state of devices. It just isn't designed to track manual power state changes. Harmony's power state management is only done via Activities, the All Off button, and Help button. Any power commands via the Device screen commands, physically pushing the button on the equipment, or using the factory remote will not be tracked by Harmony's state management.


The main issue with the PS3 is that there isn't discrete OFF and ON commands so power state management issues cause more problems than with devices that have discrete power commands. Sending a Power Off command to a device with a discrete Power Off code will do nothing to that device. However, sending a Power Off command the a device without discrete power commands (just power toggle) that is in the off state will turn it on. (Sending a Power On command to a PS3 that is in the On state will not turn it off due to the the macro needed for Off, but that is unique to the PS3.)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryansj /forum/post/13954305


It doesn't do a terrible job of maintaining the power state of devices. It just isn't designed to track manual power state changes. Harmony's power state management is only done via Activities, the All Off button, and Help button. Any power commands via the Device screen commands, physically pushing the button on the equipment, or using the factory remote will not be tracked by Harmony's state management.

Saying it's not a feature of the Harmony to monitor using a Power Button mapped in an activity or Device setup, does not mean it's not terrible. It is terrible. Why would you not monitor power button presses every where? There is no excuse for this poor implementation. Just as there is no excuse for the poor implementation of Macros/Sequences. The fact that the only way to add delays to a macro, is by calling Tier 2 Customer Support, is ridiculous. The first call I made, I was told Tier 2 was not available, they were down for system maintenance. The second time I called, I was on hold for 53mins before I decided to give up.


Other then those two BIG problems, I really do like the remote.


Ed
 

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Using a power button mapped in an activity or device setup is usually done in order to turn on or off a device that the Harmony didn't get right when starting an activity. So basically, you are correcting the state of the device to match the state that the remote is already in.


Computers and game consoles are tricky things to get right for power settings. I'll often start a demo download on the PS3 and then switch over to DirecTV. In that case, I don't want the PS3 shutting down because (unlike the 360), the download will stop if I shut the PS3 down.


And my computer is sometimes on already if it is recording a show when I start the Media Center activity, and it only has a power toggle, not discrete on/off codes. So I don't want the PC to sleep if it is recording a show (it wouldn't do it anyway).


So for the PS3 and the computer it might be best to just have a power button set up as one of the LCD soft buttons.


That is what I do with my computer. But the PS3 is just a blu-ray player 9 times out of 10, so I let the Harmony/IR2BT turn it on and off, which it does very well. When I do download a demo and switch over to directv, I'll hit the DirecTV activity, but hold my hand over the IR emitter. Then I'll press help. When you press help, it won't attempt to shut down the PS3, but it will switch over my receiver and TV to the DirecTV inputs. So 2 button presses instead of 1. Still beats using the devices menu.


And it definitely beats having 7 remotes on the table.
 

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Shape, you should just set up the Harmony to not turn off unused devices (the PS3) when switching activities. It will only turn off the device when the All Off command is sent. I think this is in the set up options of the device. I set all my devices to remain on when switching activities since I'm often paused in a movie or game and switch over to watch a show and then switch back. If I left the Harmony to do the default settings then it would turn off the movie or game when I switched to the TV.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryansj /forum/post/13955134


Shape, you should just set up the Harmony to not turn off unused devices (the PS3) when switching activities. It will only turn off the device when the All Off command is sent. I think this is in the set up options of the device. I set all my devices to remain on when switching activities since I'm often paused in a movie or game and switch over to watch a show and then switch back. If I left the Harmony to do the default settings then it would turn off the movie or game when I switched to the TV.

Right, and this works for everything that has Discrete ON/OFF functionality, but not for devices like the PS3. When you hit the All Off button, it turns on the PS3, if it was off. Often times I leave my PS3 on, to download demos, but once it's done, I turn it off, and go back to what ever activity I was on. So, if I hit All Off, my PS3 comes back on. That's why many of us do not let the Harmony control the power of some of our devices.


Ed
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryansj /forum/post/13955134


Shape, you should just set up the Harmony to not turn off unused devices (the PS3) when switching activities. It will only turn off the device when the All Off command is sent. I think this is in the set up options of the device. I set all my devices to remain on when switching activities since I'm often paused in a movie or game and switch over to watch a show and then switch back. If I left the Harmony to do the default settings then it would turn off the movie or game when I switched to the TV.

what I have done is to set up on one of the pages the rest of the devices inputs. for exmple in the Watch TV activity I have 'tv input PS3' and 'tv input DVR' also the same for my AVR. 'avr input PS3 and AVR input TV/DVR' does it make sense? I have made this mod in all of the Activites, so no matter which activity I am in I can change inputs both on my tv and avr with out having to press activity or the device3 button...


I hope this makes sense...
 

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I think the only potential change that Sony could make to the whole remote thing that would affect units in the field is


1) The tricks to shut down the unit, i.e. the 6 button and 3 button sequences

2) The pairing of the device

3) Button timing


I gave careful thought to this before spinning a device. I can't speak for others, but the ps3toothfairy doesn't know about the pairing protocol. Basically the Sony remote has to follow the Sony PS3 protocol that the controllers are using. That protocol allows for a large number of "single press" buttons (such as the audio and subtitle) as well as a very small subset of buttons that are supported "in combinations", like start+enter. My approach was to just allow the unit to transmit any set of combo keys. There is both a protocol limit and a hardware limit to what they could change it to -- rather than guess, I just made them all work correctly.


The shutdown tricks could potentially change, I added the macros into the device with some ability to configure and modify their behavior. The exact details of what you can do is not in the manual other than to change the sequence. If it comes up, then I may have to publish a "button sequence" to configure the device a little differently. Of course they could make changes that could not be handled, but that part of the PS3 has stayed consistent for a while now.


The button timing is interesting because the IR remotes and BT remote work in very different ways. When you hold a button on the IR remote, it continually transmits the key and that is how your DVD player, receiver, etc know you are holding the key, it just sees the same pattern over and over. The BT remotes don't do that. Basically they register two events, the key press and the key release. That is the only time anything is transmitted. So it is up to the firmware inside the PS3 to deduce if you are holding the key down or not.


How the device maps from IR "hold down" to BT press/release is really up to the developer -- there isn't really any hard and fast rule as to how it is done. And there are of course some design decisions that have to be made along the way. In the case of the ps3toothfairy it tries to be as smart as possible about it, but it still has extremely fast response time. The 2nd part is how does the device handle the signal timing from the Sony module. I didn't guess here either, I just designed it to work with a part way faster than would ever be needed -- In theory it can scan at around 80MHz, but the Sony module now and in the future won't ever likely go or need to go that fast.


Where there is a high probability of failure is if somebody emulates the bluetooth remote with a CSR radio or something. That would be great from a cost, ease of build, and integration with Girder or other HA apps, but Sony firmware could lock that out pretty quick (if they have not already) unless the developer used Sony's BT Remote MAC addresses. That is really not the right thing to do though. The last potential pitfall with this approach is if the remote can send some "as-of-yet-unseen" responses during the pairing and a firmware switch on the PS3 activated that. Having said all this, I am currently playing with it in my spare time to see if I could emulate the remote. Emulating the PS3 with Linux is an easy trick. If it does work I don't know that I would make it a product -- seems to risky on the surface. If anyone has done this already, though I'd like to see it go.


- ame
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by detwetter /forum/post/13955337


Right, and this works for everything that has Discrete ON/OFF functionality, but not for devices like the PS3. When you hit the All Off button, it turns on the PS3, if it was off. Often times I leave my PS3 on, to download demos, but once it's done, I turn it off, and go back to what ever activity I was on. So, if I hit All Off, my PS3 comes back on. That's why many of us do not let the Harmony control the power of some of our devices.


Ed

If the PS3 is not a device in a current activity, and you press "all off", then the PS3 will not come on. If the PS3 is already on, that implies it is a device in the current activity, and pressing "all off" will indeed turn it off.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie 1.8 /forum/post/14112247


If the PS3 is not a device in a current activity, and you press "all off", then the PS3 will not come on. If the PS3 is already on, that implies it is a device in the current activity, and pressing "all off" will indeed turn it off.

Not for the 880 (that's what I use). It definitely sends the Power Off Cmd to All Devices used in All activities. I can reproduce this this consistently. I'm wondering if there has been a Firmware update for the 880?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by detwetter /forum/post/14112298


Not for the 880 (that's what I use). It definitely sends the Power Off Cmd to All Devices used in All activities. I can reproduce this this consistently. I'm wondering if there has been a Firmware update for the 880?

Really? I too have the 880. I thought that if a device was not in an activity, pressing "all off" does not send a power signal for that device? You are saying that even though you do not have the PS3 as a device in your activity, pressing "all off" still sends a power command for the PS3?


If so, this implies that pressing "all off" sends the 'off' command for every device in the 880 (for those devices that the 880 believes have power off/on commands).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie 1.8 /forum/post/14112328


Really? I too have the 880. I thought that if a device was not in an activity, pressing "all off" does not send a power signal for that device? You are saying that even though you do not have the PS3 as a device in your activity, pressing "all off" still sends a power command for the PS3?


If so, this implies that pressing "all off" sends the 'off' command for every device in the 880 (for those devices that the 880 believes have power off/on commands).

I think we are crossing wires here. My PS3 is in an activity, it's just not the Currently Active activity.
 

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I know for a fact that my PS3 will not receive the OFF command if I don't use any activities that involve the PS3 when pressing ALL OFF. I often only hit Watch TV and then ALL OFF and the PS3 never responds. Only when I've used my PS3 activity does the PS3 respond to ALL OFF.


However, I have my PS3 set to not turn off between activities (power off unused devices option). Maybe that is the issue? I don't want my devices to turn off between activities because I will often pause a game or DVD to watch a program on TV and then switch back. With that option enabled I would lose that ability.
 

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I didn't say I didn't turn On my PS3 with the activity feature, I just said it's not the Active Activity I'm using. I'll switch to a different activity, while the PS3 is downloading or Folding, then I'll switch back periodically to see if it has finished. If it has, I manually turn it off using the harmony. Then I switch back to the other activity (using the activity feature). Then when I press the All Off, my PS3 comes back On, even though it's not in the current activity.
 

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That is your problem. If you manually turn off a device by using device mode, the Harmony does not track that button press, so it still thinks the device is on. So when you hit the power off button it will still try to shut the PS3 off.


Harmony remotes only track the power state of devices that are turned on by starting an activity, and turned off by the all off button.
 

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It may be my problem, but it's due to Logitech's terrible design.
 

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I'm a little behind on this thread, as it's been a while since I tracked it. But what unit are you (the last 3 guys to post) using to control your PS3, including power on/off, with your Harmony 880? I had planned on checking out the PS3IR+BT when it became available (in July I think), but maybe what you are using is just fine, and what I am looking for. And what device to you have in your 880 that maps to the PS3 controls? Thank you.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryansj /forum/post/14115016


I know for a fact that my PS3 will not receive the OFF command if I don't use any activities that involve the PS3 when pressing ALL OFF. I often only hit Watch TV and then ALL OFF and the PS3 never responds. Only when I've used my PS3 activity does the PS3 respond to ALL OFF.


However, I have my PS3 set to not turn off between activities (power off unused devices option). Maybe that is the issue? I don't want my devices to turn off between activities because I will often pause a game or DVD to watch a program on TV and then switch back. With that option enabled I would lose that ability.

To me, it sounds as though you have told your Harmony that you want to leave your PS3 on all the time. Or, that there are no power buttons for your PS3. If you choose to turn off your PS3 when not in use, then it will respond to the ALL OFF command.


For my TiVo, I've chosen, "There are no power buttons for this device". For my DVD player, I've chosen the same (because once I hit the ALL OFF button, I still want the power to open the tray and remove the disc - then while I'm there, I press the power button on the front panel).
 
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