[TimHuey]

Sony needs to see about a thousand of these threads. Hopefully the public humiliation will force them to improve their product. There is absolutely no reason to offer HD downloads if all you have to offer is what we are seeing being offered now.


I would expect a bitrate of around 17-20 mb/s and a file size somewhere around 25-35 gigs. Not 5 gigs. I know compression is being employed but there is no way you can get a 25-50 gig 1080p movie down to 5 gigs and expect to retain the quality. It doesn't have to be the exact same product as the disc, just the same quality. Lose the extra's that people buy the discs for and keep the quality that we all bought our HDTV's for.


I wonder if they will actually have a return customer.

 

[IeraseU]

720p for HD downloads. No True-HD, DTS-HD-MA or PCM audio. If you want better quality or to own the movie, that's what blu-ray is for.

 

[b.greenway]



Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHuey /forum/post/14327933


I would expect a bitrate of around 17-20 mb/s and a file size somewhere around 25-35 gigs.

Why?

 

[GraveRobberX]



Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHuey /forum/post/14327933


Sony needs to see about a thousand of these threads. Hopefully the public humiliation will force them to improve their product. There is absolutely no reason to offer HD downloads if all you have to offer is what we are seeing being offered now.


I would expect a bitrate of around 17-20 mb/s and a file size somewhere around 25-35 gigs. Not 5 gigs. I know compression is being employed but there is no way you can get a 25-50 gig 1080p movie down to 5 gigs and expect to retain the quality. It doesn't have to be the exact same product as the disc, just the same quality. Lose the extra's that people buy the discs for and keep the quality that we all bought our HDTV's for.


I wonder if they will actually have a return customer.

If you haven't realized Sony is a business, they want to make $$$, why would they kill their own backing format which is Blu-Ray and make it "HD" downloadable


Do you seriously think with the internet speeds we have, it would take at least 1+ day just to DL a seamless Blu-Ray rip


Its better overall for Sony to give you different options to watch something


Watch a movie/show in SD (rental/purchase), HD (rental), want HD purchase go buy it on DVD or best experience on Blu-Ray


Sony would be shooting itself in the foot, that it spent so much to get Blu-Ray the definite format, then it just turns around and makes it HQ movies Digital Download accessable

 

[Remax]



Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHuey /forum/post/14327933


Sony needs to see about a thousand of these threads. Hopefully the public humiliation will force them to improve their product. There is absolutely no reason to offer HD downloads if all you have to offer is what we are seeing being offered now.


I would expect a bitrate of around 17-20 mb/s and a file size somewhere around 25-35 gigs. Not 5 gigs. I know compression is being employed but there is no way you can get a 25-50 gig 1080p movie down to 5 gigs and expect to retain the quality. It doesn't have to be the exact same product as the disc, just the same quality. Lose the extra's that people buy the discs for and keep the quality that we all bought our HDTV's for.


I wonder if they will actually have a return customer.

Yeah im sure they want people filling the harddrives of the 80gb with 3 movies

Besides it would take way too long to download. Im not fortunate to have fios in my area, so im stuck with 4 mbps cable internet.

 

[Mr. Hanky]

Yeah, I would have to agree that 17-20 Mb/s movies via download is pretty well out of the realm of reasonable expectation. We all know good hd encodes have to be above that mark, but that is no reason to expect downloaded movies will have to be "good" hd encodes. It has to be small enough to fit down the pipe in a decent amount of time.


Digital download is exactly what it is- movies appropriately squeezed for internet infrastructure. It's not blu-ray over ip, and never was it intended to be.


That said, we should all rejoice that Sony saw fit to provide solutions that fit both kinds of video customer?...premium hd on a br for those who want the very best for their home theater and compact digital distribution for those who seek the chic idea of movies over a wire.

 

[Anthony1]

This is my nightmare scenario for the future though. If people on PSN and Xbox Live keep buying/renting these low rez HD movies, and then eventually the whole disk based format goes bye bye. I know it's a long way from happening, but if people are happy with the bare minimum, why provide them with anything more?


I'm one of the guys that wants my stuff to have every single ounce of extra resolution in both the picture quality and the sound. I want the lossless sound. I normally could care less about any bonus features and stuff like that, I just want to see the movie, but I want to see and hear the movie in the best way possible. Watching these movies being downconverted to 720p and 5.1 audio is a bit depressing. Joe Sixpack doesn't notice the difference, but I do. Of course, when your screen is 126", you tend to notice things that people would never see on a smaller screen.

 

[joerod]

Lately, even downloading a demo game seems to take a long time...

 

[_Noah_]

I think that if ANYBODY could offer a movie in HD with uncompressed audio they would. I don't think the bandwidth is there yet. Also, even is they could, why would Sony offer a download that would compete with Blu ray?

 

[gooki]



Quote:
Yeah, I would have to agree that 17-20 Mb/s movies via download is pretty well out of the realm of reasonable expectation. We all know good hd encodes have to be above that mark,

Maybe with AVC yes, but lets be fair here, there's tier 0 quality HD encodes using VC-1 that average between 12 and 15 megabit/sec - still significantly higher than what's possible now, but in 5-10 years time when optical storage is dead/dying there is a small hope the infrastructure can support such speeds over a large portion of the industrialized globe.

Quote:
This is my nightmare scenario for the future though. If people on PSN and Xbox Live keep buying/renting these low rez HD movies, and then eventually the whole disk based format goes bye bye. I know it's a long way from happening, but if people are happy with the bare minimum, why provide them with anything more?

This is my concern as well. However I have faith that if the studios don't provide the quality experience we expect, someone else will step in.

 

[like.no.other.]

You people who make complaint threads like this one sounds like a *****. First of

all it's barely even 1 week on it's debut so why the hell are you complaining?

Second, it's 1-5GB because of a space in mind. You know how many people will

***** if it is 10GB a movie? Third, you have the option of buying Blu-Ray which

is already included in your PS3 for a bargain. I don't know any companies that

comes close on how Sony is handling their demand. Everytime Sony comes out

with something you guys wish for you complain. XMB is slow in-game, movie

downloads are 2-5GB with no lossless, and on and on and on... Now mass complaints

are different than yours for example people demanded DTS-HD MA which is big

compare to your bitching of 2-5GB of movie downloads. Stop it. You are annoying.

If you don't like the product, move on, there are a lot of alternatives.

 

[confidenceman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by GraveRobberX /forum/post/14328186


If you haven't realized Sony is a business, they want to make $$$, why would they kill their own backing format which is Blu-Ray and make it "HD" downloadable

There's no conspiracy here. Sony's not trying to purposely give us a "lesser" quality download service so that we keep buying Blurays. You yourself said the real reason already: HDD size and speed/bandwidth are the two limiting factors here.


If Sony could find a feasible way to set up downloadable rentals with 1080p video with HD audio codecs, they would (and they'd charge more for them, too).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 /forum/post/14328423


I'm one of the guys that wants my stuff to have every single ounce of extra resolution in both the picture quality and the sound. I want the lossless sound [...] Watching these movies being downconverted to 720p and 5.1 audio is a bit depressing. Joe Sixpack doesn't notice the difference, but I do. Of course, when your screen is 126", you tend to notice things that people would never see on a smaller screen.

You do know that 1080p is already "downconverted" from the film original, right? Not to mention various other digital artifacts. The difference between 720p and 1080p really isn't that big a difference in the grander scheme of image resolution.


Audio's another matter, though. And I totally agree with you.

 

[mikevandyke1]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 /forum/post/14328423


Watching these movies being downconverted to 720p and 5.1 audio is a bit depressing. Joe Sixpack doesn't notice the difference, but I do.

The find the notion that the "average" person is too dumb/ignorant to notice differences in picture quality or audio a little offensive. I love sports, and I love beer, but that doesn't mean I can't discern between the good and bad of A/V. Maybe I just read too much into your comment, but it came off as a little snobby.

 

[Jetrii]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 /forum/post/14328423


Joe Sixpack doesn't notice the difference, but I do. Of course, when your screen is 126", you tend to notice things that people would never see on a smaller screen.

Man, think you have it bad? My PC with 2 quad cores overclocked to 4.2Ghz cooled with a custom liquid cooling kit, 8GB of overclocked low latency ram, 4 15000 RPM SCSI Hard Drives on raid, and Crossfire HD 4870 connected to a 2560 x 1600 monitor is just going to waste! The average Joe sixpack with his Playstation 3 and wimpy 1080P display may not notice a difference, but I do. You tend to notice things that people with 1080P displays would never see.


See how conceded I came off in my post? That is exactly how you came off...


And for the record, everything but the 2560 x 1600 monitor and 4 15k RPM drives is true. You don't hear me complaining about the lack of games that take full advantage of my system because I KNOW that the infrastructure for it is not ready. We are still a few years away from streaming 1080P movies.

 

[talbain]



Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHuey /forum/post/14327933


Sony needs to see about a thousand of these threads. Hopefully the public humiliation will force them to improve their product. There is absolutely no reason to offer HD downloads if all you have to offer is what we are seeing being offered now.


I would expect a bitrate of around 17-20 mb/s and a file size somewhere around 25-35 gigs. Not 5 gigs. I know compression is being employed but there is no way you can get a 25-50 gig 1080p movie down to 5 gigs and expect to retain the quality. It doesn't have to be the exact same product as the disc, just the same quality. Lose the extra's that people buy the discs for and keep the quality that we all bought our HDTV's for.


I wonder if they will actually have a return customer.

your expectations are unrealistic to say the least. first off, the bitrates are more like 5-6 mb/s with a file size of around 5 gigs. they do this by cutting 1080p entirelyand using 720p only. every other provider does the exact same thing (microsoft, vudu, apple, etc.), and the image quality is actually quite good. the next step is to reduce audio quality from lossless to lossy, and here's where sony fails badly. where the other providers reduce the audio to dd 5.1, sony decided to reduce it to 2 channel aac. terrible.


but don't get on sony for not offering 25 gig 1080p movie downloads, that's just not going to happen from anybody...


you guys on Timhuey's side of the fence should brush up on the following:

http://www.popsci.com/gear-gadgets/a...ple-tv-vs-vudu

http://gizmodo.com/363600/apple-tv-v...oad-battlemodo

 

[talbain]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mikevandyke1 /forum/post/14329093


The find the notion that the "average" person is too dumb/ignorant to notice differences in picture quality or audio a little offensive. I love sports, and I love beer, but that doesn't mean I can't discern between the good and bad of A/V. Maybe I just read too much into your comment, but it came off as a little snobby.

it may be offensive to you, but its true. i can't tell you how many research studies and personal observations i've seen where the consumer believes he is watching hd when in fact they are watching sd...

 

[Dahlsim]

The bigger issue will be how many movies continue become available in HD on download services that are not available at all on Blu-ray. There's already quite a few.


What good is blu-ray's higher quality if it simply doesn't have the movie you want to see? If you're only looking for the big releases it may not be an issue but for many other movies it is.


Right now I'm watching Blue State from MGM as an HD rental download. Quality is not bad, better than dvd I'd say but this movie may not be the best test yet. In any event, blu-ray was not an option.

 

[HeadRusch]



Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHuey /forum/post/14327933


I would expect a bitrate of around 17-20 mb/s and a file size somewhere around 25-35 gigs. Not 5 gigs.

Your expectations are the problem here.

Quote:
I know compression is being employed but there is no way you can get a 25-50 gig 1080p movie down to 5 gigs and expect to retain the quality. It doesn't have to be the exact same product as the disc, just the same quality. Lose the extra's that people buy the discs for and keep the quality that we all bought our HDTV's for.

I can tell you aren't up on what can be done with modern video codecs.


You can convert a 25gb 1080p movie down to about 8 or 9gb at 1080p with a modern codec like VC1 or H264, pair it with a DD or DTS soundtrack (depending on the length of the movie) and wind up with a result that is nearly indistinguishable from the 1080p source.


Now, since most of those downloadable movies are 720p, you save a ton of space, which is why you are going to see file sizes in the 4-7 gb range. And you are almost guaranteed to get a much better picture than you are likely to see with Cable VOD HD downloads.

Quote:
I wonder if they will actually have a return customer.

Dont take this the wrong way, but you sound a little naive. Nobody is going to sit there watching a 20gb download happen, on some peoples broadband that could take all day.


You also need to read up on your codec's and what can be done with them.

You assume there is a problem with thef iles you are seeing, but let your eyes be the judge.

 

[utgotye]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetrii /forum/post/14329170


Man, think you have it bad? My PC with 2 quad cores overclocked to 4.2Ghz cooled with a custom liquid cooling kit, 8GB of overclocked low latency ram, 4 15000 RPM SCSI Hard Drives on raid, and Crossfire HD 4870 connected to a 2560 x 1600 monitor is just going to waste! The average Joe sixpack with his Playstation 3 and wimpy 1080P display may not notice a difference, but I do. You tend to notice things that people with 1080P displays would never see.


See how conceded I came off in my post? That is exactly how you came off...


And for the record, everything but the 2560 x 1600 monitor and 4 15k RPM drives is true. You don't hear me complaining about the lack of games that take full advantage of my system because I KNOW that the infrastructure for it is not ready. We are still a few years away from streaming 1080P movies.

Grammar nazism aside, this is one I absolutely can't stand.


The word is conceit. Conceited, not conceded.


[/rant]

 

[jagouar]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 /forum/post/14328423


This is my nightmare scenario for the future though. If people on PSN and Xbox Live keep buying/renting these low rez HD movies, and then eventually the whole disk based format goes bye bye. I know it's a long way from happening, but if people are happy with the bare minimum, why provide them with anything more?


I'm one of the guys that wants my stuff to have every single ounce of extra resolution in both the picture quality and the sound. I want the lossless sound. I normally could care less about any bonus features and stuff like that, I just want to see the movie, but I want to see and hear the movie in the best way possible. Watching these movies being downconverted to 720p and 5.1 audio is a bit depressing. Joe Sixpack doesn't notice the difference, but I do. Of course, when your screen is 126", you tend to notice things that people would never see on a smaller screen.

Actually right now I dont think these services are a huge threat to bd adoption (but they are and will continue to take some $ away from bd... but its still going to the studios so they dont care).


what the real threat could be is the netflix streaming model.... when they go "hd" and get newer movies... both of which i think will happen. things will change because i really see that as being the "next generation" of movie watching. (the whole instant gratification thing and tie that in with a cheaper price that bluray and every other physical media lacks). ive said from the beginning whoever figures that out first will be a serious threat to bd adoption.... these services currently are not that.


and ive rented a few of the "lowly" 720p movies off xbox live and one off psn. to me they compare far better than they should with bluray (and that scares me more than anything).... and before you ask i have a 106 inch screen. ive also come to the realization that 95% of movies really dont benefit at all from the differences between 720p downloads and bd and thats the area the online subscription model could rule.